Islam and the West, fundamentally incompatible?

[The guy from the Vale]

Iran would fight ISIS even without our involvement. Syria, Iraq, and even Lebanon all have reason (if not always the capability) to fear them, as do the Kurds. You might want to reduce your point to majority Sunni Arab nations, and even then too much success by ISIS might well make them react more quickly. Note, though, that Sunni Arabs are a minority among all Muslims. While Sunnites are the biggest Muslim denomination, most of them are South or South East Asians, not Arabs.

[TerraPrime]

I agree. Except people in that faith keep trying to relive all that douchey nonsense, and others in their faith are doing little to stop them. That's what bothers me the most.

When you say "people in that faith," I understand that you meant "some significant minority of Muslims." But when you are careless in your communication, you'll end up indistinguishable from the hate-filled islamaphobes who sincerely think that all Muslims are terrorists.

I also think the statement is invalid. What is a Muslim living in Indoensia to do to stop Daesh? It will make as much sense to expect an Irish Catholic to do something to stop the likes of Jerry Falwell.

Plus, there are plenty of Muslims speaking out against the actions of Daesh. They are just not routinely reported.

 

If we weren't fighting Isis, do you think any other Muslim nation would take the fight to them? Or would they continue to fund them?[/quote]      

If I understand correctly, it's mostly the rich and the powerful people who are funding these radical groups. The vast majority of Muslims and their mosques don't contribute money to these groups. Again, you're talking as if most Muslims directly donate to these groups.

On a general note, we can stop the funding of these groups effectively if only we didn't need to rely on the crude oil that much. Developing a sustainable and independent energy policy will be critical to disentangling ourselves from the region in the long run. It's something that we can do, and not something we have to browbeat others into doing.

[The Anti-Targ]

I agree. The West is far too intolerant for Muslims to ever feel welcome. The West has had it in for Islam for the last 1200 years.

[Commodore]

mayor of Cologne gives advice for maintaining compatibility

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

mayor of Cologne gives advice for maintaining compatibility

[url=//?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIndyUSA%2Fstatus%2F684477416673128448%5D">http://asoiaf.westeros.org//?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIndyUSA%2Fstatus%2F684477416673128448]

Heh...

Twilight zone when the SJW's attempt to bridge the gap. Preposterous.

They will blame the conservatives, blame the victims, welcome more migrants while chastising those around them whom have retained any sense.

Oh, and while they're at it, manipulate the media in an attempt to preserve the derelict narrative.

They call it intellectualism and/or compassion but it's increasingly apparent it's just plain old naivety. Europe has lost its marbles.

The west is the intolerant one.

Unbelievable.

[sologdin]

wtf is wrong with you two?  is there anything in the article about moslems?  FFS.  the position of that mayor is essentially camille paglia's position from the 1990s, which may or may not be reasonable--but it is not an 'SJW' position, but is rather associated with the rightwing.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

TPTWP,

So, are you going to tell us that "intellectualism is a disease"?

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Those right wing German politicians.

LMAO.

Nope they just called them North Africans and Arabs. I suppose they could just as likely be atheists.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

TPTWP,

So, are you going to tell us that "intellectualism is a disease"?

I'll tell you it's been coopted by the left to push agendas that are anything but intellectual.

Since they won't stop calling this recklessness intellectualism; then sure, knock yourself out.

[The guy from the Vale]

Mrs. Reker is a conservative politician. She's definitely not a "SJW". But whatever, don't let me interrupt you putting your foot in your mouth.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

No. She certainly is not a conservative politician.

Open gate refugee advocate.

Victim blamed.

Certified wretched SJW.

[Commodore]

Reddit mods are deleting links to stories about the Cologne rapes

 

[Crixus]

Disgusting, disturbing and terrifying. And I agree with those condemning the ludicrous suggestion of staying at 'arm's length'. It's the WIMMINZ who are responsible for men behaving like filthy fucking animals, is it? 

This reminds me of those sickening suggestions by mullahs here to 'cover up so you don't tempt men'. If men are that fucking retarded and incapable of human control then they should be put down. 

I am also not that surprised at this, really. Isolated newcomers wouldn't dare behave like this in a new country, but when you have millions from a clearly different background converging there, and suddenly they can drink, see women being independent etc., some of them can't handle it. 

The question is how this dangerous situation can be nipped in the bud quickly.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Interesting Just skimmed through the first few pages to see how that thread started, and I did not want to post, because honestly speaking I find those Huntington (Clash of Civilizations) clones rather boring.

But personally I find one illusion (or delusion) some people seem to entertain rather amusing. They believe they are infact real practising Christians. I know I will get some nasty looks from a good part of the American posters here. But in all honesty, take a minute and explain what is specifically Christian about your everyday life. If you come up with more than, not being circumcized and eating pork, and celebrating christmas, congratulations. In the west we have managed to succesfully put the Christian faith into a neat little box and store it away in a safe place, and the believers put it forward to perform some ritualized celebration every Sunday when they attend Church, or on the big holidays when Christmas or Easter come around, or when it comes down to cast a moral judgement. A very trivial example: The fasting periods in Christianity (yes they exist(ed)) have been trimmed down significantly), a bit less trimmed down in the Orthodox faith. The entire loan money business is at least in theory not just a taboo in Islam, a certain Martin Luther refered to money lenders as chair robbers (usually in those text you can also find more than a grain of anti-semitism). 

So in short I find the thread title (as some of those discussions) a bit misleading. A truer headline for those discussions would be: Religion and the West fundamentally incompatible. The Muslims just happen to take their religious stuff more serious than the average westerner.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Notone,

Yes, observant Orthodox Christians are in "fast" (essentially a vegan diet but shellfish is allowed) about 6 six months of the year.  40 days proir to Pascha (Easter), 40 days prior to Christmas, fasts of varying lengths for the Apostles and the Dormition of Mary plus we are supposed to fast on Wednesday and Friday unless those dates happen to be feast days.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I agree the subject would have been better as "Religion and the West fundamentally incompatible"?

That said, I found an interesting chart comparing Judaism, Islam and Christianity-

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity-islam-judaism  (you may need to scroll from ( l to r ) to see the whole thing)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DWS,

That would because you have rather biased and generalized view about religion.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, all those western values we hold dear, are not Christian or Jewish values.

Womens' rights, you better take a good look at the Bible and Talmud. If I bothered to, I could probably easily find a few passages.

Democracy in the Bible? No. At least I don't recall Mose putting up the ten commandments  up for vote. 

Slavery? The Old Testament/Talmud is a real treasure cove. In the New Testament the protagonist (Jesus) is awfully silent on that issue. So we can assume he did not intend to rewrite the old book.

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do (Exodus 21,7)

There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.But if the priest buy anysoul with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat. (Leviticus 22, 10-11)

 

 

And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. (Exodus 21, 20-21)

 

 

When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,

 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

 

Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

(Deuteronium, 21, 10-14)

 

And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. (Leviticus, 19,20)

 

Depending on translation, you can switch the word servant with slave.

 

Like I said, the big achievement of the West is the emancipation from the religion.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Notone,

You are aware that for many, if not most, Christians the Bible is a teaching tool not something that must be accepted as the literal and perfect word of God that must be obeyed to the letter, right?  The Bible was assembled by the Church looking at Church tradition to see what documents would be included and what wouldn't be considered canonical.

Just FYI.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

It always sounds a bit conterscending, when I say stuff like that but, then you are not really that familar with your religious traditions. And it's really one of the reasons I stay the hell out of those Christian threads.

Sola scriptura and prima scriptura are the expressions you ought to look up. 

That goes again, to the point of my previous post, that in the west, we are not true Christians. At least not in everyday life. 

 

Edit:

Hum, somehow the board really does not like me using the terms.

Sola scriptura and prima scriptura.