NBA Season 2015/16 - Currying Favor

[DireWolfSpirit]

Durant is from DC, I believe thats what the F.A. rumors stem from.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Whatever makes you feel better about losing KD, please continue rationalize this way and that, about how He would never leave OKC. ;)

[Red Tiger]

John Wall is a great passer yes, but would Durant take Wall over Westbrook? Not sure at all.

Yes, yes he would. Wall is more about passing and facilitating, rather than scoring like Westbrook. If KD wants that scoring record, which I believe he does, teaming up with Wall would be a good idea.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Durant is from DC, I believe thats what the F.A. rumors stem from.

Yes, that is where the rumors stem from. But, to me, it's a perfect place. Wall a facilitating PG, could take much needed pressure off of Beal, and other FA"s will flock to play with Durant in the East. Will it happen? Its a long shot, sure. But, I wouldn't just dismiss it. He loves D.C. and they have the big pieces in place already. With players that would fit and cater to his game much better.

 

[Relic]

I heard somewhere that Durant is probably going to sign a one year deal with OKC this off season,  and do the F.A. the following year,  when the cap is set to truly explode. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what will happen. 

[Red Tiger]

Yes, that is where the rumors stem from. But, to me, it's a perfect place. Wall a facilitating PG, could take much needed pressure off of Beal, and other FA"s will flock to play with Durant in the East. Will it happen? Its a long shot, sure. But, I wouldn't just dismiss it. He loves D.C. and they have the big pieces in place already. With players that would fit and cater to his game much better.

 

I dont think it's a long shot at all. Like you said they have all the pieces (YOUTHFUL pieces at that), they have his hometown, but also they provide him with a place to both start fresh AND be succesful. OKC went to the finals 4 years ago and ever since they've taken steps back, starting with the Harden deal. Obviously KD's injuries were part of the problem, but the organization has not exactly made mastermind moves.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I dont think it's a long shot at all. Like you said they have all the pieces (YOUTHFUL pieces at that), they have his hometown, but also they provide him with a place to both start fresh AND be succesful. OKC went to the finals 4 years ago and ever since they've taken steps back, starting with the Harden deal. Obviously KD's injuries were part of the problem, but the organization has not exactly made mastermind moves.

I agree. You don't have to convince me. Relic coul well be right, or, tthere will be shocked and stunned fans of OKC this summer.

[Calibandar]

Whatever makes you feel better about losing KD, please continue rationalize this way and that, about how He would never leave OKC.

There's nothing to rationalize man, he's not going to Washington. That's not to say he won't leave for another team, one that actually does look promising. Washington is only coming up because he was born there. I read an article earlier this season about how this will not make the difference for Durant, how he's happy in Oklahoma and that he is not commenting on free agency. Combine that with the zero buzz and the fact that when OKC went there recently, the Durant reception was considered disappointing, I don't see it. At all. Clearly you'd wish for that to be different.

I also think he will sign on for 1 more year and see how that goes.

 

[briantw]

While I could certainly see Durant leaving, I don't think that Durant's Wizards team would be better than his current Thunder team.  Westbrook is a superstar.  Wall is not.  I just don't really see the appeal.  The Thunder have made some mistakes, sure, and their owner is cheap as hell, but Washington hasn't really been any better in that regard, and in fact might have been worse.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Reed good example of a football player not mailing it in, DeSean should be forced to watch about 100 hours of that play on autoloop, pos DeSean.

^^^Oops wrong thread lololol

[Jaime L]

While I could certainly see Durant leaving, I don't think that Durant's Wizards team would be better than his current Thunder team.  Westbrook is a superstar.  Wall is not.  I just don't really see the appeal.  The Thunder have made some mistakes, sure, and their owner is cheap as hell, but Washington hasn't really been any better in that regard, and in fact might have been worse.

How do you define superstar? I mean I'm not gonna argue Wall is as good as Westbrook who is an absolute freak of nature. But Wall is a top 10 player in the NBA. Don't let the Wizards shitty record fool you. He has zero help which completely kills what Wall does best. He's the best assist man in the game. But even that's limited when you're playing with Ramon Sessions and Gary Neal in crunch time. Can't get blood from a stone. It'll be a damn shame if Wall never gets to play with another elite talent. 

Durant and Westbrook are compelling because you have two top 5 talents on the same team. But I still believe Wall and Durant are actually more complimentary in terms of skillsets. 

There's nothing to rationalize man, he's not going to Washington. That's not to say he won't leave for another team, one that actually does look promising. Washington is only coming up because he was born there. I read an article earlier this season about how this will not make the difference for Durant, how he's happy in Oklahoma and that he is not commenting on free agency. Combine that with the zero buzz and the fact that when OKC went there recently, the Durant reception was considered disappointing, I don't see it. At all. Clearly you'd wish for that to be different.

I also think he will sign on for 1 more year and see how that goes.

No-one saw Lebron going to Cleveland either until that offseason actually started. 

That said this season has unfolded in the worst possible way for KD2DC. The Wizards are regressing with injuries and bad team construction and OKC hasn't missed a beat. And yes, it's increasingly clear he's going to re-sign in OKC for another year and become an FA at the same time as Westbrook. Though if OKC doesn't win a title in the next 2 years, it's hard to imagine either or both re-signing. The problem is I don't know that KD views DC as the best alternative to OKC anymore.  That said, I hope the Durant to Golden State rumors are total crap. That's not the career arc I want for him - I'd rather him stay in OKC over that. 

 

 

 

[briantw]

How do you define superstar? I mean I'm not gonna argue Wall is as good as Westbrook who is an absolute freak of nature. But Wall is a top 10 player in the NBA. Don't let the Wizards shitty record fool you. He has zero help which completely kills what Wall does best. He's the best assist man in the game. But even that's limited when you're playing with Ramon Sessions and Gary Neal in crunch time. Can't get blood from a stone. It'll be a damn shame if Wall never gets to play with another elite talent. 

Durant and Westbrook are compelling because you have two top 5 talents on the same team. But I still believe Wall and Durant are actually more complimentary in terms of skillsets. 

No-one saw Lebron going to Cleveland either until that offseason actually started. 

That said this season has unfolded in the worst possible way for KD2DC. The Wizards are regressing with injuries and bad team construction and OKC hasn't missed a beat. And yes, it's increasingly clear he's going to re-sign in OKC for another year and become an FA at the same time as Westbrook. Though if OKC doesn't win a title in the next 2 years, it's hard to imagine either or both re-signing. The problem is I don't know that KD views DC as the best alternative to OKC anymore.  That said, I hope the Durant to Golden State rumors are total crap. That's not the career arc I want for him - I'd rather him stay in OKC over that. 

In no way is John Wall a top ten player in the NBA right now.  I'm not even convinced he's top twenty.

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Stephen Curry
Russel Westbrook
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Andre Drummond
DeMarcus Cousins

That's eleven guys who are all better than John Wall right now, and I could list more.  I don't even think Wall is the best point guard in the East.  Lowry has been much better this year, and Kyrie is better when healthy.  Hell, Kyrie just eviscerated the Wizards a few nights ago, and he's nowhere near 100% yet.

And I know PER isn't a be-all, end-all stat, but Wall is currently 41st in PER this season.  It's hard for me to consider a guy a top-ten player when they're that far down the list in PER.  

As far as LeBron goes, there were plenty of people in the know in Cleveland who had him pegged as returning the moment the Heat lost in the Finals to San Antonio with Wade looking forty years old and Bosh practically a ghost.  The writing was on the wall for LeBron in Miami from the moment the Heat amnestied Mike Miller to save money.  LeBron was pissed about that, and you can see that Dan Gilbert obviously made some promises about sparing no expense given the Cavs' current standing as the most expensive team of all time.  The fact that Wade proved to be unable to play more than about 55 games a year (which added to the toll on LeBron since they weren't a very deep team to begin with) sealed the deal.

[Jaime L]

In no way is John Wall a top ten player in the NBA right now.  I'm not even convinced he's top twenty.

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Stephen Curry
Russel Westbrook
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Andre Drummond
DeMarcus Cousins

That's eleven guys who are all better than John Wall right now, and I could list more.  I don't even think Wall is the best point guard in the East.  Lowry has been much better this year, and Kyrie is better when healthy.  Hell, Kyrie just eviscerated the Wizards a few nights ago, and he's nowhere near 100% yet.

And I know PER isn't a be-all, end-all stat, but Wall is currently 41st in PER this season.  It's hard for me to consider a guy a top-ten player when they're that far down the list in PER.  

As far as LeBron goes, there were plenty of people in the know in Cleveland who had him pegged as returning the moment the Heat lost in the Finals to San Antonio with Wade looking forty years old and Bosh practically a ghost.  The writing was on the wall for LeBron in Miami from the moment the Heat amnestied Mike Miller to save money.  LeBron was pissed about that, and you can see that Dan Gilbert obviously made some promises about sparing no expense given the Cavs' current standing as the most expensive team of all time.

A few things:

Enes Kanter is 8th in PER - is he top 10? 

And don't give me that crap about Irving not being 100%. He sat out the first 2 months. John Wall's numbers are down because he's battling about 3 distinct injuries at the moment - but he doesn't get the benefit of sitting because this team's only hope of winning with Beal out is John Wall playing out of his mind. Also John Wall is a much defender than Kyrie. That matters everywhere but PER. But fair point on Lowry. 

And I'm calling total BS on your Lebron anecdote. Lebron had no idea he was going to Cleveland until y'all lucked into the #1 pick in the draft and suddenly there was an asset that could be traded for Kevin Love. All those people in Cleveland who "knew" Lebron was headed there were the same people who swore he'd never leave in the first place. 

ETA: Every ranking I've seen out there in the last year has Wall in its top 12. Clearly my statement was absurd.

[briantw]

A few things:

Enes Kanter is 8th in PER - is he top 10? 

And don't give me that crap about Irving not being 100%. He sat out the first 2 months. John Wall's numbers are down because he's battling about 3 distinct injuries at the moment - but he doesn't get the benefit of sitting because this team's only hope of winning with Beal out is John Wall playing out of his mind. Also John Wall is a much defender than Kyrie. That matters everywhere but PER. But fair point on Lowry. 

And I'm calling total BS on your Lebron anecdote. Lebron had no idea he was going to Cleveland until y'all lucked into the #1 pick in the draft and suddenly there was an asset that could be traded for Kevin Love. All those people in Cleveland who "knew" Lebron was headed there were the same people who swore he'd never leave in the first place. 

ETA: Every ranking I've seen out there in the last year has Wall in its top 12. Clearly my statement was absurd.

Irving sat the first two months because he was recovering from a fractured kneecap.  Guys typically don't come back from eight month injuries right at a hundred percent, especially if they come back in the midst of the season.  It takes time to get your legs back under you, and also to start trusting yourself again to do all the things you were used to doing before without worrying about an injury.

Regarding Kanter, as I said, PER is not a perfect stat.  However, the top stars in the league are basically always in the top of the PER chart.  You're going to have some outliers like Kanter, of course, because PER doesn't account for minutes played per game.  Some guys can put up extremely efficient numbers in limited minutes.  Kanter is one of those guys.  I don't think anyone sees him in the top twenty of PER and thinks he's actually a top twenty player.

That said, here's the top ten in PER right now (in order):

Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Durant
Kawhi Leonard
LeBron James
James Harden
Anthony Davis
Enes Canter
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin

Nine out of ten ain't bad, right?

As far as LeBron goes, call BS all you like.  There were two people who have proven numerous times to be "in the know" on the private section of a Cavaliers forum (both of whom are moderators on the site) that were calling LeBron's homecoming shortly after the Heat got crushed by San Antonio.  I don't know who they know, but it's probably someone in LeBron's circle.

And finally, when it comes to rankings, those rankings were likely made before the season started.  I'd probably have ranked Wall top fifteen or twenty before the season started too.  He just hasn't played well enough to keep that spot.  And I would know...he's on my fantasy basketball team, so he's one of the few players I pay pretty close attention to.

[Relic]

Sorry Jaime, im not even sure that Wall is a Top 5 PG in the league right now, let alone a Top 10 player.

Taking a look at point guards, off the top of my head -

1. Curry

2, Westbrook

3. Lowery

4. Paul

5. Lillard

6. Wall

[Jaime L]

And finally, when it comes to rankings, those rankings were likely made before the season started.  I'd probably have ranked Wall top fifteen or twenty before the season started too.  He just hasn't played well enough to keep that spot.  And I would know...he's on my fantasy basketball team, so he's one of the few players I pay pretty close attention to.

Wall had a rough start to the season. He's been back to his usual form for the last month. Virtually everything is broken on the Wizards except Wall. 

But fine, top 15. Anything below that and you're just fooling yourself based on small sample size. 

Sorry Jaime, im not even sure that Wall is a Top 5 PG in the league right now, let alone a Top 10 player.

Taking a look at point guards, off the top of my head -

1. Curry

2, Westbrook

3. Lowery

4. Paul

5. Lillard

6. Wall

Wall is definitely better than Lillard IMO. Again offense is only half of an NBA player's responsibility. 

And even if Paul or Lowry have outplayed Wall on the season, if either the Clippers or Raptors floated a trade of PGs, it's the Wizards walking away from the table first. 

[Mexal]

How fun are the Knicks right now? I never thought I'd see the day when Melo thrives as a facilitator. He's only averaging 20 pts a game yet the Knicks are so much better for it.

[Relic]

How fun are the Knicks right now? I never thought I'd see the day when Melo thrives as a facilitator. He's only averaging 20 pts a game yet the Knicks are so much better for it.

I knew he had it in him, and it's great to see it actually manifest. I want to see more of that. And would love to get a real PG too. 

Ironically, however, he should have taken the last shot in that Spurs game, instead of making the pass to the wide open Calderon, who flat our missed. If Calderon hits that shot the Knicks are on a 5 game winning streak that goes Hawks x2, Miami, Spurs, Bucks. Impressive. 

[Relic]

Wall is definitely better than Lillard IMO. Again offense is only half of an NBA player's responsibility. 

And even if Paul or Lowry have outplayed Wall on the season, if either the Clippers or Raptors floated a trade of PGs, it's the Wizards walking away from the table first. 

Fair enough. 

[Mexal]

I knew he had it in him, and it's great to see it actually manifest. I want to see more of that. And would love to get a real PG too. 

Ironically, however, he should have taken the last shot in that Spurs game, instead of making the pass to the wide open Calderon, who flat our missed. If Calderon hits that shot the Knicks are on a 5 game winning streak that goes Hawks x2, Miami, Spurs, Bucks. Impressive. 

I think the process was right though. If you don't have a good shot, you create one for someone else and while Calderon missed, he was wide open.