Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just as a thought exercise, if JJ Watt were to get injured this weekend and never play again, would he be a hall of famer? He's only played 5 years, but he was arguably the best defender in the league for four of them. Is that enough? By Howdy's metric, you could certainly describe this era without mentioning Watt since the Texans have varied between terrible and divisional round losers. But his peak is really impressive...EDIT: And for the record, I do not think Davis is as dominant as Watt, and I am in no way hoping anyone gets injured this weekend.You could describe the era without mentioning the Texans, but I don't think you could describe it without mentioning Watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 No love for the Great Dane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Curtis Martin is in the HoF? That was generous. I included Davis in the maybe pile for Hall of Fame, I can see it either way. He was clearly the best of all of Shanahan's running backs, but how much better? That Denver team was really stacked with talent. Super Generous. Bettis made it too. Both retired after injuries forced TD to but couldn't hold his jock IMO. HoF is too enamored of compilers.Those Denver teams were super talented but he was the best player on offense at that point. The guy teams had to but couldn't stop. They ran him into the ground those Superbowl years. 480 and 460 total carries (!) in '97 and '98 to get Denver (and Elway) over the Superbowl hump. The franchise is 0-5 in Superbowls that TD has not played in, getting blown out of all of 'em. Yeah his career was too short but in a way it's because his career was sacrificed to make it happen. Just as a thought exercise, if JJ Watt were to get injured this weekend and never play again, would he be a hall of famer? He's only played 5 years, but he was arguably the best defender in the league for four of them. Is that enough? By Howdy's metric, you could certainly describe this era without mentioning Watt since the Texans have varied between terrible and divisional round losers. But his peak is really impressive...He's already in IMO. If you win defensive MVP 3x, I don't feel there's a basis for keeping you out. All I really care about for HoF consideration is 5 years at the top of your position. I also feel Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw are (or should be) already in for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think Owens should probably not make it. Yes, his numbers are great, but this is a guy who got dumped by three different teams while he could still play. At times he made it virtually impossible for his team to win. That's not a hall of famer.It wasn't his fault that the Eagles lost to the Pats ten (or so) years ago. He may have been the best player on the field in that game, with a leg injury if I recall. I think he's Hall-worthy. Just crazy production, and definitely one of the most dynamic players of his time. But so begins the wide receiver glut, where it'll be tougher and tougher to fit all the very productive receivers in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Those Denver teams were super talented but he was the best player on offense at that point. I'd say he was the best offensive player in the league at that point. I suppose that should be mitigated somewhat by the level of talent around him (Elway/Sharpe/Rod Smith/etc) but I'd say those guys benefited from Davis's presence moreso than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It wasn't his fault that the Eagles lost to the Pats ten (or so) years ago. He may have been the best player on the field in that game, with a leg injury if I recall. I think he's Hall-worthy. Just crazy production, and definitely one of the most dynamic players of his time. But so begins the wide receiver glut, where it'll be tougher and tougher to fit all the very productive receivers in.Coincidentally I was watching A Football Life - Terrell Owens last night. He wasn't even supposed to play in that Superbowl but agree he was probably the best player on the field that day. That Patriots defense was awesome that year and he was the one guy they couldn't stop.But can't recall a more self-sabotaging player ever. He can't share his opinion without throwing other people under the bus and it's still showing up long after his career is over. I don't think he does it maliciously - it's just his nature.Moss also wore out his welcome at multiple stops but he never seemed as cancerous to me. I'd say he was the best offensive player in the league at that point. I suppose that should be mitigated somewhat be the level of talent around him (Elway/Sharpe/Rod Smith/etc) but I'd say those guys benefited from Davis's presence moreso than the other way around.Yeah pretty much. Either him or Favre. But in that '97 Superbowl, Packers were a 14 point favorite going into that game...and TD just broke 'em. And yeah, Elway's career was on fumes for most of the 90s. Then Shanahan and TD get there and for the first time ever Elway could do less to achieve more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It wasn't his fault that the Eagles lost to the Pats ten (or so) years ago. He may have been the best player on the field in that game, with a leg injury if I recall. I think he's Hall-worthy. Just crazy production, and definitely one of the most dynamic players of his time. But so begins the wide receiver glut, where it'll be tougher and tougher to fit all the very productive receivers in.Is there any real debate about him getting into the HoF? I was under the impression the debate was will he get in first ballot, because some voters may hold a grudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'd say he was the best offensive player in the league at that point. I suppose that should be mitigated somewhat be the level of talent around him (Elway/Sharpe/Rod Smith/etc) but I'd say those guys benefited from Davis's presence moreso than the other way around.You could argue that TD's numbers where a byproduct of the system he was in. There was a 10 year period where the Denver RB was always top 5 or so in the league in yards for the season, regrardless of who it was. Hell, they made some nobody named Mike Anderson a 1,500 yard back one year, and Portis (one of my favorite players ever) looked incredible while playing for Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It wasn't his fault that the Eagles lost to the Pats ten (or so) years ago. He may have been the best player on the field in that game, with a leg injury if I recall. I think he's Hall-worthy. Just crazy production, and definitely one of the most dynamic players of his time. But so begins the wide receiver glut, where it'll be tougher and tougher to fit all the very productive receivers in.The wide receiver glut is going to be very hard to come to terms with as we define what are truly HoF numbers these days. The changes to the passing game make it impossible to compare across eras, so without past comparisons it becomes much more difficult to define HOF worthiness.Also, these old articles on Eddie DeBartolo were unearthed and shared on Twitter. There's absolute gold in some of them."A $17 million payment for the team won you that right" Ohhhh how times have changed.I also liked the opening, "An arrogant young twirp came to San Francisco the other day..." That's some strong journalism there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The wide receiver glut is going to be very hard to come to terms with as we define what are truly HoF numbers these days. The changes to the passing game make it impossible to compare across eras, so without past comparisons it becomes much more difficult to define HOF worthiness.Also, these old articles on Eddie DeBartolo were unearthed and shared on Twitter. There's absolute gold in some of them."A $17 million payment for the team won you that right" Ohhhh how times have changed.I also liked the opening, "An arrogant young twirp came to San Francisco the other day..." That's some strong journalism there. Not sure how familiar you are with S.F. papers, but this guy worked for the Examiner, which was always the red-headed stepchild to the S.F. Chronicle. They were both owned by the same company, but the Chronicle was the shining star, especially when it came to sports coverage. The Examiner was like AA ball for Bay Area journalists who were either trying to move up to a respectable paper, or who were relegated to the also ran rag due to a lack of talent. I'm guessing you can figure out which demographic Reg Murphy belonged to. Thanks for that. That is gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I've never seen "phooey" in a published newspaper before. That was... special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I've never seen "phooey" in a published newspaper before. That was... special.I love his column pic too. Oh look, it's ranty sports guy! He's going to tell me all the ways that Eddie DeBartolo sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 You could argue that TD's numbers where a byproduct of the system he was in. There was a 10 year period where the Denver RB was always top 5 or so in the league in yards for the season, regrardless of who it was. Hell, they made some nobody named Mike Anderson a 1,500 yard back one year, and Portis (one of my favorite players ever) looked incredible while playing for Denver.Shanahan's system was gifted at making unknown RBs look like stars, just like SF was with QBs for 20 years and Pittsburgh with LBs, no question.There's still tiers though. TD was elite (2,000 yard, 20 TDs) at his peakPortis was very good (1,500 yard, 14 TDs) and repeated that in Washington a couple times. And the rest (Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson) were just one hit wonders. I knew Mike Anderson was a 1,000 yard back, but didn't realize he flirted with 1,500 yards that year until you mentioned it. The NFL was drunk that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I love his column pic too. Oh look, it's ranty sports guy! He's going to tell me all the ways that Eddie DeBartolo sucks.He is most famous for being kidnapped a right wing militant and being ransomed for 700.000 dollars back in the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I dont care how good your system is, 2000 yards combined with 20 td's is godlike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 He is most famous for being kidnapped a right wing militant and being ransomed for 700.000 dollars back in the 70'sThat's awesome! $700? How did they ever manage to get that much?I loved the line about the Bay Area having grown fond of Monte Clark "cause he seemed like a decent guy". Decent guy? Who gives a fuck? Win me some fucking games, Monte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I dont care how good your system is, 2000 yards combined with 20 td's is godlike.Yeah, the only guy in recent memory to best it is LaDainian Tomlinson with 2,300 total yards (rushing/receiving)...and 31 TDs in 2006. Which looks like something out of a video game. Of course he's a sure first ballot HoFer.Not quite the playoff resume of TD though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That's awesome! $700? How did they ever manage to get that much?I loved the line about the Bay Area having grown fond of Monte Clark "cause he seemed like a decent guy". Decent guy? Who gives a fuck? Win me some fucking games, Monte.The Atlanta Constitution paid it and it was 700 hundred thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The Atlanta Constitution paid it and it was 700 hundred thousand dollars. Wow. After reading that article, I thought $700 was pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Wow. After reading that article, I thought $700 was pushing it.Actually Monte Clark was a decent coach and Joe Thomas was a terrible GM, so old Reg actually nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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