purple-eyes Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 So we know there is a prophecy about "promised prince". And this prince was supposed to be key person to fight with evil. And his song is song of ice and fire. We know this prince is the same thing as AA, so this prophecy must be similar to the AA story of Ashaai. In all the versions of savior, there was only one person, not three. Rhaegar obviously read this prophecy somewhere in his book. But why did he insist dragon must have three heads, aka he had to have three children? This does not sound like to be part of the AA prophecy. Is this just Rhaegar's own imagination based on his house sigil and house story? he thought because this prince is from his house so there must be two helpers to him like rhaenys and Visenya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 The three heads of the dragon is Targaryen-centric or focused. It is the back drop of Targaryen power since Aegon I and his sister-wives. It is the symbol of their sigil. Before Aegon I, there was no "three head of the dragon", Aenar came from Valyria with multiple wives, not just two, so the origin of it should be with Aegon, The Conqueror. However... Did Aegon received some sort of dreams or visions or read from some scrolls (mostly from Daenys), that he must not go back to Essos (encouraged by his family), but to Westeros??? Whatever it is, this led him to back down or reject the notion that they (the Targaryen family) should go back to Essos, once he became the leader of his household. Instead, Aegon took his sister, Visenya with him and traveled all over Westeros, blending and getting to know lords and the common people; enough that Aegon, soon before the conquest, already had a detailed map of Westeros in one the main hall of Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, IceFire125 said: The three heads of the dragon is Targaryen-centric or focused. It is the back drop of Targaryen power since Aegon I and his sister-wives. It is the symbol of their sigil. Before Aegon I, there was no "three head of the dragon", Aenar came from Valyria with multiple wives, not just two, so the origin of it should be with Aegon, The Conqueror. However... Did Aegon received some sort of dreams or visions or read from some scrolls (mostly from Daenys), that he must not go back to Essos (encouraged by his family), but to Westeros??? Whatever it is, this led him to back down or reject the notion that they (the Targaryen family) should go back to Essos, once he became the leader of his household. Instead, Aegon took his sister, Visenya with him and traveled all over Westeros, blending and getting to know lords and the common people; enough that Aegon, soon before the conquest, already had a detailed map of Westeros in one the main hall of Dragonstone. I guess Aegon designed that sigil for himself and his two sisters. But I am wondering that why rhaegar so firmly decided that the promised prince must come from a combo of "three-head dragon". Prophecy did not mention this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 As Rhaegar's statement, "His is the song of ice and fire," hinted that his son (actually Jon, not Aegon) is the prince that was promised, his statement, "The dragon has three heads," hinted that two more Targaryens would be revealed, Aegon (who is actually a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen), and Jon who is yet to be revealed. Quote Three-headed Trios has that tower with three turrets. The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don’t know what the middle head’s supposed to do. Daenerys (the Targaren babe on the black dragon) was the first head. Aegon (like the leader of the greens who tried to steal the last Targaryen queen regnant's throne) is the second. Jon (a blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice) will be the third. Quote “Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandre's White Pubes Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 The three heads are the forehead, whitehead, and maidenhead. This means that the dragon is a pubescent girl who is still a virgin - Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 "Mother of Dragons, child of three" - the Undying My guess is Rhaegar read something about AA being a child of three as well - that is, having 2 siblings. So being the narcissistic jerk that he was, Rhaegar thought he was AA and Aerys and Rhaella were gonna have a third baby soon and all would be well. But the years passed and there were only Rhaegar and Viserys, so Rhaegar thought, "Hmmmm, it looks like I may not be AA after all. So it's gotta be my son!" (see? Total narcissist). So he was hellbent on having exactly 3 kids (or "heads of the Dragon", the Targ narcissism at play yet again, modifying ancient prophecies to fit themselves) so Aegon could have 2 siblings and be AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 we have three prophecies talking about Promised Prince from an ancient prophecy and war of dawn ..AAr ,TPTWP and TSWMTW Now that promised Prince is a DrAGoN So Dragon who was promised will have three heads and fulfill three versions of same prophecy Iam pretty sure whatever book rhaegar and aemon and others before them have read was also read by Aegon the conqueror and I think that he also knows more about daenys dreams and would explain his interest in westeros. So I think he took the sigil based on the proohecy and the people begin to think it as referring to Aegon and his sisters.. Rhaegar along with Aemon all made the same and obvious mistake of taking the three heads = three riders. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceHeartStark Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I alway assumed Rhaegar knew that when the dragons returned "hatched" they would be in a group of three so he would need 3 riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 The dragon must have three heads... I always assumed its because the Dragon must be a targaryen as their symbol is the 3 headed dragon. So a three headed dragon (A single Targaryen) could be the one and only PtwP / AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 We only have a few lines of Daenys' original prophecy, which may well be what Rhaegarr stumbled across when he first took up arms. IIRC The Reader got a book boner when Marywn found three pages of her book- who knows how much of the prophecy we actually have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hyle Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 18 hours ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said: The three heads are the forehead, whitehead, and maidenhead. This means that the dragon is a pubescent girl who is still a virgin - Sansa. I think you meant this post for this thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Tptwp will be of the blood of the dragon and from that Rhaegar believed that it would come from the Targaryan line. I believe that the Targs are descended from the Bloodstone Emperor and the NQ/NK tale and the story of the Blood Betrayal from the GEotD are the same story told by different cultures mutated over thousands of years of isolation. Point being that if the Targs are "blood of the dragon" through the Bloodstone Emperor then any descendants of the Amethyst Empress would also be the "blood of the dragon" as the two were siblings. That is where the Starks (and Rhaegars infatuation with Lyanna) comes into importance. But Aemon never mentioned the dragon having three heads as part and parcel of tptwp prophecy. He only stated that dragons are sexless so "prince" could be female and thus possibly Dany. So I don't think the two are related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Aemon says we have been waiting for TPTWP for a 1000 years, I always interpreted his WE as the Targaryen family. Mel says that the AAR legend is 5000 years old. But Aemon seems to confirm that TPTWP & AAR are the same person/prophesy. So why the time discrepancy? Does Mel's version of the prophesy not stipulate a member of House Targaryen as AAR? did they even exist 5000 yrs ago? Mel travels to DS after a vision of the place, and decides once their that Stannis is AAR. Is his Targ blood the reason for that or just a coincidence. Equally is it coincidental that Benerro decides Daenerys is AAR and she is a Targ. is it because she is a Targ with Dragons or is it simply the Dragons and her slave trade policies. Aemon certainly gives the impression that TPTWP must be a Targ, as does Rhaegar. But of course at this point there are no other dragon riders left in the world. They both think the Blackfyre line is gone I guess. But interestingly they never give any hint that a Valyron might be plausible. They have as much Targ blood and have been dragon riders a plenty. Or a Baratheon for that matter, or any of the other houses they have wed into. I mean we know there are several, and what of the houses their off spring married into, for instance Spoiler the daughter of House Toland in TWOW Arianne chapter seems to have dragon dreams. Maybe a Minor Martell married into that house at some point and passed that talent on. So I think we have to assume that the prophesy of TPTWP discounts any people with Blood of the Dragon outside the actual House that the prophesy states a member of the House Targaryen. Or at least should I say that it is worded in such a way as to make Rhaegar and Aemon think it does. I think it is pretty certain the Red Star is relevant as it appears in both. And though the Wiki says TPTWP does not mention a sword, but uses Rhaegars desire to suddenly learn arms as proof TPTWP must weild one, it must mention one as Aemon has that convo with sam about the sword being "wrong", so we can confirm TPTWP indeed has a sword as at this point we have Both Mel & Aemon mention they are one and the same. Though it is inadvertent and not spelled out for the reader directly. Mel never mentions three, but Aemon does. As does Rhaegar. Rhaegar obviously in the vision, and Aemon to Sam as he is dying, he realises that Dragon is gender neautral, he decides dany is TPTWP and says "The dragon must have three heads … but I am too old to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me." So is the three heads thing in the prophesy or is it something Aemon & Rhaegar decided upon during their correspondence? I think that the Targaryens TPTWP prophesy is a translation from the AAR one. I kinda wonder if Azor Ahai might mean promised Prince in high valyrian. But the two prophesies have a lot of similarities, and so the three headed thing seems to be a Targ addition. The Targ sigil is a three headed dragon, the wiki says it represents Aegon and his Sisters, but though the world book describes how the sigil was invented to help cement Aegon, Visenya & Rhaenys rule over Westeros, it does strike me that the three headed dragon representing them, may well be just that - an assumption. TPTWP is not a widely known prophesy in Westeros, and by the time we are reading of, most every copy of Signs & Portents has been destroyed, how do we know the sigil does not in fact represent TPTWP prophesy? Might they have designed it around the prophesy which foretold of their house producing this great hero? Remember they are not founding a house, merely integrating one into Westerosi society. Seems a tad self absorbed to just base the sigil on yourselves. I think most people would try to weave their family back ground into it. It could have been a long used representation of the family, but this is the first time it has been transformed into heraldry? Anyway some thoughts and ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Edit: double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 We don't have he text of any prophecy. But the overall impression GRRM gives (with Aemons comments especially) is that "the dragon must have three heads" is a central part of a very old prophecy that the Targaryens have been obsessing about for centuries, and that this prophecy is the same or directly related to the Azor Ahai legends. Furthermore we also know there was an update to the prophecy during Jaeherys reign, specifying that the central prophetic figure would come from Aerys and Rhaellas line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said: We don't have he text of any prophecy. But the overall impression GRRM gives (with Aemons comments especially) is that "the dragon must have three heads" is a central part of a very old prophecy that the Targaryens have been obsessing about for centuries, and that this prophecy is the same or directly related to the Azor Ahai legends. Furthermore we also know there was an update to the prophecy during Jaeherys reign, specifying that the central prophetic figure would come from Aerys and Rhaellas line. ^this, we don't know the prophesy, and even the name given to the prophesy (TPtwP) might be a misinterpretation (dragon=prince?gender neutral)... the Ghost of High Heart gives us some insight, born of the line of Aery's and Rhaella... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen Restoration Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 On 1/25/2016 at 9:37 PM, purple-eyes said: So we know there is a prophecy about "promised prince". And this prince was supposed to be key person to fight with evil. And his song is song of ice and fire. We know this prince is the same thing as AA, so this prophecy must be similar to the AA story of Ashaai. In all the versions of savior, there was only one person, not three. Rhaegar obviously read this prophecy somewhere in his book. But why did he insist dragon must have three heads, aka he had to have three children? This does not sound like to be part of the AA prophecy. Is this just Rhaegar's own imagination based on his house sigil and house story? he thought because this prince is from his house so there must be two helpers to him like rhaenys and Visenya? Rhaegar is just like Mel. He was trying to fulfill a prophecy that he could have misinterpreted. He was not the "Prince", nor was he "the dragon." Dany is the three-headed dragon. Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion are obviously the "heads." Rhaegar was not special as far as Targaryens go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said: Rhaegar is just like Mel. He was trying to fulfill a prophecy that he could have misinterpreted. He was not the "Prince", nor was he "the dragon." Dany is the three-headed dragon. Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion are obviously the "heads." Rhaegar was not special as far as Targaryens go. yeah....but three dragons need three riders..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shierak Qiya Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Drogon is The Prince Who Was Promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 13 hours ago, purple-eyes said: yeah....but three dragons need three riders..... Agreed but they do not have to be three-headed dragons (Targs) themselves, Dany (or maybe Jon) is THE one and only 3-headed dragon, and also the promised prince and AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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