Season 6 Hookups!

[Winter's Cold]

55 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Well i could also see Jon seen by Dany as a targaryen and Jon being seen by the northmen as one of them as nice compromise to the whole the north want to be independent thing. Free folk don't seem to want to be under anyone's thumb who has not earn their respect which jon already has in both book and show.  Sansa and Jon being cousin like Ned's parent could marry to continue on the line of the great northern house with Jon's targaryen blood ties the North in blood to the iron throne to prevent future war between the north and the south while also putting someone in charge of the north the freefolk will follow. 

it is just one of a number of ways and marriages that could happen as the series goes to endgame. 

If that's the case then Jon/Arya makes more sense than Jon/Sansa since the former two are also far closer to each other.

[239JMFL34109]

 

6 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

If that's the case then Jon/Arya makes more sense than Jon/Sansa since the former two are also far closer to each other.

I don't think it matters if it is arya or sansa for anyone else in that situation but i just don't expect arya to marry anyone. i think she ends up going night wolf.

[The Arthur Smith]

25 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

 

I don't think it matters if it is arya or sansa for anyone else in that situation but i just don't expect arya to marry anyone. i think she ends up going night wolf.

This. Romance is not the point of the series and we don't have time to develop Jon/Arya or Sansa relationship in either way.

[Le Cygne]

All the rationales for the "political" shipping are full of holes, disregard other parts of the story, and are deadly dull as a story. This is interesting, "Catherine de Valois hooked up with a very unlikely character, her Welsh servant, a guy called Owen Tudor" -  starts at 26:00:

 

[bb1180]

2 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

It's a pretty simple idea. If Rickon dies and Bran stays in a cave somewhere, then Sansa will be the only available Stark heir. Jon is not a legitimate Stark and Robb's will does not exist in the show. Also the fact that the Umbers and Karstarks apparently both side with the Boltons against him shows that there's dissension against him in the North. Thus it's possible that he may marry Sansa to gain political legitimacy and the support of all the Northern houses and maybe the Vale so that he can unite them against the Others.

 

The problem with this theory is that it ignores Jon's nature . If Jon learned that Bran was alive he would never become Lord of Winterfell unless Bran specifically abdicated his claim. I don't believe his death will change this trait. If Jon doesn't become Lord of Winterfell, then there's no reason for him to marry Sansa. If Sansa becomes Queen regent in place of Bran, he still has no reason to marry her.

 

That's the basic idea,  yes,  based in the possibility that the northern lords would revolt against the deceitful, traitorous scum known as the Boltons and attempt to install Sansa as a Stark heir.  As you say,  it would presumably add political legitimacy to Jon in his attempts to rally support for the battle against the Others.  But the catch for Sansa is that virtually all of the northern lords,  as a condition of backing her claim,  are probably going to try to marry her themselves or their heirs for the same reason that the Lannisters and Boltons did...the children would be of the father's family and the claims and titles would therefore fall to the father's House upon Sansa's death.  If this Sansa-for-the-North scenario occurs,  she ultimately will need to marry,  since she's presumably the last Stark,  but for the Stark restoration to succeed,  it will have to be to someone who would not object to the children carrying the Stark name rather than the father's.  Would anyone besides Jon, who has his own personal stake in the matter,  do that?  Very doubtful.  Of course,  the northern lords will still try to extort concessions from a married Sansa,  but it takes the obvious one of marriage off the table.  

You're right also right that it presents Jon with a dilemma.  Does he support his cousin Sansa,  a legitimate Stark claimant sitting right in front of his face and who,  through a marriage to him,  could restore the Stark lineage?  What if he does marry Sansa, Queen and Ruler of the North,  and a few years later,  Bran knocks on the door?  Likewise, does he take the risk that Bran,  the true heir,  or Rickon,  the 1st in the line of succession,  may never reappear to claim their birthright and the Stark family dies out?  And what if he takes the high road,  and Bran does re-emerge some years later,  but by that time,  the window of opportunity to rally the North against the Boltons has passed?    

 

 

 

[Tianzi]

Bran is unable to have children, AFAIR. Even if he reappears, Rickon or Sansa or Jon or Arya, or whoever is next in line, can calmly produce babies and be sure that they are going to be Bran's heirs.
 

[bb1180]

6 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Bran is unable to have children, AFAIR. Even if he reappears, Rickon or Sansa or Jon or Arya, or whoever is next in line, can calmly produce babies and be sure that they are going to be Bran's heirs.
 

I don't think we have a definitive answer regarding Bran and future children.  But for the sake of the counterargument,  I'm entertaining the idea that he can.

Otherwise, Rickon is the only one who could produce Stark heirs.  Jon can't because he's not a Stark.  Sansa and Arya can't in any other marriage scenario,  because the family names,  titles, etc,  normally pass through male lines;  their children would typically be of the father's house and family name.  

[Le Cygne]

People who know Bran is alive on the show (some more recently than others, but the showrunners called out last season that knowing Bran is alive is important to Sansa): Jon, Sam, Sansa, Ohsa, Rickon, Theon, Bloodraven, Children, Meera, Hodor,... and anyone they told.

[Le Cygne]

Jon is a Stark.

[bb1180]

7 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

People who know Bran is alive on the show (some more recently than others, but the showrunners called out last season that knowing Bran is alive is important to Sansa): Jon, Sam, Sansa, Ohsa, Rickon, Theon, ... and anyone they told.

There are people that know Bran is alive,  yes.  The problem is,  no one knows where he is,  or when he might reappear,  including the characters in the books/show.  If this scenario were to play out,  with the northern lords attempting to overthrow the Boltons in order to restore the Starks to Winterfell and the North,  they would want and probably need a legitimate Stark heir safe and in their hands before putting this into motion.   

[Joan Jett]

1 hour ago, The Arthur Smith said:

This. Romance is not the point of the series and we don't have time to develop Jon/Arya or Sansa relationship in either way.

Love may not be the "point" of the series, but it definitely plays a role in just about everyone's story, especially Arya's if you've been paying attention.

 

"We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy."

 

 

[bb1180]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

Jon is a Stark.

No,  he's not.  He's a Stark bastard,  with no claims on the titles of Winterfell or the North. 

[The Arthur Smith]

Just now, Joan Jett said:

Love may not be the "point" of the series, but it definitely plays a role in just about everyone's story. 

 

"We are only human, and the gods have fashionedus for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy."

 

 

Familial love, yes. Romance, not so much.

[Le Cygne]

If you know the king is alive, you don't just crown someone else. You secure the kingdom on his behalf, and find him. All they need is someone to rally around.

Spoiler

Reports are they rally around Jon. And the Boltons are toast this season.

Jon is a Stark. Books, Robb legitimized him and made him heir, rather than Sansa (who on the show is married to a Bolton). Show, everyone and his mama knows Bran is alive.

(added spoiler tag)

[Joan Jett]

2 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Familial love, yes. Romance, not so much.

Not sure why everyone is so narrow minded about Arya and romance. Oh wait I am sure why. It's because she's a tomboy. So obviously romance can never be apart of her story. 

[Le Cygne]

And yes, of course, love is a big part of the series. And people doing unexpected things. Look at Lyanna and Rhaegar, at the heart of the saga.

[bb1180]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

If you know the king is alive, you don't just crown someone else. You secure the kingdom on his behalf, and find him.

All they need is someone to rally around. Reports are they rally around Jon. And the Boltons are toast this season.

Much of the kingdom knew that Stannis was the rightful king after Robert died.  That didn't stop many of them from flocking to little brother Renly.  Theoretically,  you're right. In a practical sense, when people actually have to make those decisions,   it gets a lot more murky.  

[The Arthur Smith]

6 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Not sure why everyone is so narrow minded about Arya. Oh wait I am sure why. It's because she's a tomboy. So obviously romance can never be apart of her story. 

I'm not saying Arya can't love romantically cause she's a tomboy. I'm saying cause i doubt GRMM will have time to develop romance in the last 2 books.  Especially when there's the White Walkers/Others that need to be concern about. Beside, putting some romance will only be distracting to readers from focusing the main point of the series. GRMM only include it so if it lead to points of the plot or some outcomes like Rhaegar and Lyanna's love caused many dire consequences and the character development of Dany.

[Meera of Tarth]

Sam knows bran was heading north

[bb1180]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sam knows bran was heading north

He does,  as do others,  but the key question to me is whether anyone can realistically expect the other northern lords to revolt against the Boltons for a claimant that is only presumed to be alive and that is missing in action north of the Wall.