[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Do you guys think Dorne will show up again and this is an attempt to create "strong" women after all the criticism of misogynistic undertones? The Dorne story paints women in even worse light now, I think, and I know we all hate what happened there, but thinking on it a bit more all DnD did was have these "strong" women kill off rational, level headed rulers. Whether that was to create a strong, female centered kingdom (they're all family butchering women who cannot see "reason" so DnD once again cast women in an awful light) or they are being written as monsters on purpose, which is equally problematic.

These two guys--it's like the Farelly brothers are disguised and actually running this show.

[Ser Quork]

 

4 hours ago, Eucratides_Megas said:

 

Honestly I feel a bit like I need to wear a cultural hair shirt and occasional whip myself (culturally speaking)---I am one of those assholes who told everyone of their various social circles to watch this show, because I'm a huge fan of the books and if I can nerd out with people who aren't about the same character (well...vaguely similar....kind of similar...not similar at all....they share a name at least....or don't). Well I got my wish, and then D & D pretty much jettisoned any pretense toward "adaptation" and have turned it into a weird, almost improv-esque, soul numbing parade of "shocking" scenes that have no punch or are so artificial they make you angry.

 

2 hours ago, Low Sparrow said:

Thank you for a hearty laugh today. Great point many missed in the mileu of continuity errors and bad writing that makes GoT what it is. I was too busy at the time wondering why someone who is not a brother, not a king and and for all intents and purposes just showed up is giving orders without being asked, "and who the hell are you?"

So true, let alone why he cares about protecting Jon's body in the first place?  Stannis-admiration displacement?  Who knows? 

52 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

Carol might just go kill Tommen herself just to save time and to put an end to her anticipation of it. D$D, it would be such a SHOCKING TWIST if Carol killed Tommen herself, unless they have already thought of this. Oh my??

Well, she did almost kill him at during the Battle of the Blackwater ...

[MotherofStrife]

52 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Do you guys think Dorne will show up again and this is an attempt to create "strong" women after all the criticism of misogynistic undertones? The Dorne story paints women in even worse light now, I think, and I know we all hate what happened there, but thinking on it a bit more all DnD did was have these "strong" women kill off rational, level headed rulers. Whether that was to create a strong, female centered kingdom (they're all family butchering women who cannot see "reason" so DnD once again cast women in an awful light) or they are being written as monsters on purpose, which is equally problematic.

These two guys--it's like the Farelly brothers are disguised and actually running this show.

D&D have no idea what "strong women" are like. In my opinion a strong or a "badass" character isn't a murdering maniac, it is a character that is consistent in their actions and fights for what they believe in. The Dornish women... are stupid at best in the show. There is no end game to their "plans". D&D couldn't even make them cunning in regards to the stereotypical sentiment that women are cunning. They have killed Doran and his only(in the show) heir, they have no claim to the throne. Writing them this way doesn't endear them to the audience, it makes them look like maniacs.

The problem is that most male writers think a badass woman is a murderous woman who kills and constantly makes references about how better she is than men. The Dornish women are bent on revenge, their dialogue with each other( and men) are cringe worthy (ex bad pussy, you're a greedy bitch). They only want to kill "weak men". They are what D&D think what a strong woman is. A woman who is bent on revenge and kills men. And of course, since this show has a boob quota, their titties are constantly out and they are sexualised as well. It's just bad writing. Female characters should be characters not caricatures. They should want to protect people, kill people, love people, hate people, their plans should work and fall through.

D&D's "strong women" and dialogue is just not doing it for me and it is disappointing to see as a woman myself, when people refer to a "badass woman" it's generally this caricature. A woman with her breasts out, holding a gun/knife/sword with cringe worthy dialogue and a stupid revenge plan.

[tormund's beard]

ygritte was strong and they didn't even knew it! thank the gods she died i don't even want to think what she would be like now.

[kissdbyfire]

9 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

Define "possible spoilers" please.

 

Things people read and post about, here and elsewhere, that may or may not happen. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

Isn't Brienne supposed to be heading to the Riverlands while Sansa goes North?

How's that going to pan out? Is Sansa going to tell her to find Arya after she finds out about their meeting?

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

Isn't Brienne supposed to be heading to the Riverlands while Sansa goes North?

How's that going to pan out? Is Sansa going to tell her to find Arya after she finds out about their meeting?

I suppose... But Brienne has to escort Sansa to the CB, right? After everything, she can't just go to the Riverlands and leave Sansa to go to the Wall on her own. And how's Theon going to the II?

 

[Dolorous Gabe]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I suppose... But Brienne has to escort Sansa to the CB, right? After everything, she can't just go to the Riverlands and leave Sansa to go to the Wall on her own. And how's Theon going to the II?

Well I suppose traveling across Westeros is pretty quick and easy when it suits.

Someone should create a mock advert for Batfinger's jetpack.

[LazyBazooka]

Preach it, Hitler.

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, LazyBazooka said:

Preach it, Hitler.

That's just awesomely brilliant!

[Ser Quork]

49 minutes ago, LazyBazooka said:

Preach it, Hitler.

Ha ha!  I thought the Snape kills Dumbledore one was brilliant, but this tops it.

[Bayard]

21 hours ago, Rockroi said:

This comment should be my new tag-line.  I almost did not comment on this thread merely because BK said everything I wanted to.  Regardless ... 

 

Overall Grade: 4/10.  

Just quoted to say you're brilliant :). They don't realize that by killing so many people we're left with nobody to care for... Dorne is not done, they have things planned for the Sand Snakes the rumor has it. So what??? They're villains and unlikable villains at that, why should we care if they live or die, if they have a little war with the Tyrells. Tyrells we don't care for either... a buffoon like Mace? The Loras who is just the most offensive stereotype of a gay I've seen in a long time...

Even so, I would have given a 6/10 to the episode... even with the poor story telling, with the overall way they understand the world... it's maybe better written than other first episodes.

[Tijgy]

1 hour ago, LazyBazooka said:

Preach it, Hitler.

Never thought I would ever completely agree with Hitler. Especially that line with the fact this isnt the way to fix it, it completely wrong to have only good but dumb women and smart but evil women and then the Ian McShane reference 

[Sir Loin Steak]

5 hours ago, MotherofStrife said:

The problem is that most male writers think a badass woman is a murderous woman who kills and constantly makes references about how better she is than men. The Dornish women are bent on revenge, their dialogue with each other( and men) are cringe worthy (ex bad pussy, you're a greedy bitch). They only want to kill "weak men". They are what D&D think what a strong woman is. A woman who is bent on revenge and kills men. And of course, since this show has a boob quota, their titties are constantly out and they are sexualised as well. It's just bad writing. Female characters should be characters not caricatures. They should want to protect people, kill people, love people, hate people, their plans should work and fall through.

Just to add on to your points, despite turning the Sand Snakes into indistinguishable warrior women stereotypes: 

• They haven't won a single fight. 
• Their methods are impractical (i.e. bringing a whip to fight in a small cabin), adding to the general aura of incompetence they radiate. 
• Every named character they killed was through literal and metaphorical backstabbing*. They don't seem to be capable of beating the men in a fair fight (even crippled Larry).

So D&D managed to fail at even depicting the stereotype well. In TVTropes terms they just created a bunch of psychopathic Faux Action Girls http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxActionGirl

 

* Brienne the Brute is a (I hesitate to say the word) interesting contrast to this, she does have the power to mow down groups of men in single combat. What are the differences between Brienne and the Sand Fakes? She's not traditionally feminine, she's depicted as very masculine, while the Snakes' femininity is focussed on to a cartoonish degree. Show!Brienne is pretty much non-sexual, while the Sand Fakes are hyper-sexualised. Finally, Brienne the Brute is ostensibly a good woman (sociopathic tendencies aside), while the Sand Fakes are clearly bad women. It's very obvious Madonna-Whore complex territory, which aside from everything else wrong with it, is just plain boring to watch. Brienne the Brute is simply a BrawnHilda http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrawnHilda

It's very sad that a show adapting ASOIAF, a book series that deconstructs so many of these type of tropes, managed to end up embracing them in the dumbest ways imaginable.

[TepidHands]

3 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Never thought I would ever completely agree with Hitler. Especially that line with the fact this isnt the way to fix it, it completely wrong to have only good but dumb women and smart but evil women and then the Ian McShane reference 

"Outlander better kick its ass at the Emmys this time." 

(I can't believe I just hearted Hitler.) 

 

[Ser Quork]

21 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Just to add on to your points, despite turning the Sand Snakes into indistinguishable warrior women stereotypes: 

• They haven't won a single fight. 
• Their methods are impractical (i.e. bringing a whip to fight in a small cabin), adding to the general aura of incompetence they radiate. 
• Every named character they killed was through literal and metaphorical backstabbing*. They don't seem to be capable of beating the men in a fair fight (even crippled Larry).

So D&D managed to fail at even depicting the stereotype well. In TVTropes terms they just created a bunch of psychopathic Faux Action Girls http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxActionGirl

 

* Brienne the Brute is a (I hesitate to say the word) interesting contrast to this, she does have the power to mow down groups of men in single combat. What are the differences between Brienne and the Sand Fakes? She's not traditionally feminine, she's depicted as very masculine, while the Snakes' femininity is focussed on to a cartoonish degree. Show!Brienne is pretty much non-sexual, while the Sand Fakes are hyper-sexualised. Finally, Brienne the Brute is ostensibly a good woman (sociopathic tendencies aside), while the Sand Fakes are clearly bad women. It's very obvious Madonna-Whore complex territory, which aside from everything else wrong with it, is just plain boring to watch. Brienne the Brute is simply a BrawnHilda http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrawnHilda

It's very sad that a show adapting ASOIAF, a book series that deconstructs so many of these type of tropes, managed to end up embracing them in the dumbest ways imaginable.

[Zara Zokan]

9 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

Do you guys think Dorne will show up again and this is an attempt to create "strong" women after all the criticism of misogynistic undertones? The Dorne story paints women in even worse light now, I think, and I know we all hate what happened there, but thinking on it a bit more all DnD did was have these "strong" women kill off rational, level headed rulers. Whether that was to create a strong, female centered kingdom (they're all family butchering women who cannot see "reason" so DnD once again cast women in an awful light) or they are being written as monsters on purpose, which is equally problematic.

These two guys--it's like the Farelly brothers are disguised and actually running this show.

It's not like there was canonically a plot about a female heir securing her birthright and, quite literally, empowering other women by crowning a woman as queen, and then having a conversation with her father in which they are both on the same level, and learn from one another, and having her own plotline...

No, the more empowering plot is hysterical women overreacting to everything and murdering "weak/feminine" men.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

18 hours ago, Bishop Cruz said:

On another note, is anyone tired of this conversation?

Cersei: Bad things are happening, our enemies are all around us!
Jaime: I don't care, you are the only thing I care about, we're the only two people who matter.
Cersei: But bad things are happening... our enemies mean to kill us.
Jaime: I will kill everyone who tries to stand between us. I will kill everyone who isn't us.

It's like it happens at least once a season.

I'm tired of the same ole same ole Jaime, I mean, Larry and Carol convo each season and/or appearance, us against the world, Kindly Carol not blaming Larry the Lunkhead for another child's death, let's make the whole world disappear, just you and me, kid........scene.  It's reminding me of the one scene that Tyrion and Shae did over and over that last season and a half.  I'm thinking........that Nik and Lena look almost as bored with that eternal scene as Dinklage and Conleith looked about Tyrion and Varys same ole same ole this year.  It's a damn shame to watch actors being bored with same ole scenes when we know they'd shine with some book material or even some decent original material.  

[Cas Stark]

On 4/26/2016 at 0:58 PM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

 

I agree, the show finds something that works...Tyrion and Varys...and they run it into the ground.  Varys & LF, Tyrion and Shae, Bronn and anybody...and it isn't even like the convos are different, they're having the same conversations over and over again.  How many times are we to be treated to discussion of Varys missing cock?  Is this going to be a plot point in the future or something?

My guess now is that Carol will sacrifice Tommen for 'reasons' before burning some cities to the ground since she's now, since last season, when she was totes upset that Myrcella was in danger, is resigned to the dead children, it's fate, no biggie, not your fault Larry.

No Tom W. either.  We'll have to see what kind of costume he's got this year.  

Fucking fuck fuck.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree, the show finds something that works...Tyrion and Varys...and they run it into the ground.  Varys & LF, Tyrion and Shae, Bronn and anybody...and it isn't even like the convos are different, they're having the same conversations over and over again.  How many times are we to be treated to discussion of Varys missing cock?  Is this going to be a plot point in the future or something?

My guess now is that Carol will sacrifice Tommen for 'reasons' before burning some cities to the ground since she's now, since last season, when she was totes upset that Myrcella was in danger, is resigned to the dead children, it's fate, no biggie, not your fault Larry.

No Tom W. either.  We'll have to see what kind of costume he's got this year.  

Fucking fuck fuck.

Yup, bore us to death with the same ole twosomes having the same ole convos.  You know it's bad when the boredom comes through in the actors' performances, LOL   It's not really funny as I'm not laughing, I'm more rolling my eyes.

I agree on Carol with Tommen.  She may not completely wash her hands of him, but she'll be resigned to seeing him go, LOL  Damn, will we have a shot at Lunkhead Larry becoming Jaime again?