Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Snowman3131

Jon Snow can leave the Night's Watch...

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Net-Viper X said:

I don't think it should release him from his vows, since he isn't really dead. The vows don't specify that if you happen to die and be brought back then you are off the hook. Its service for all the days of your life, and if he has been brought back then he has life again, and that life belongs to the Watch. Even if they do decide that since he was killed he can be let off from his vows, I hope he turns it down. Jon chose of his own will to be a man of the watch and I hope he stays true to that.

He chose that life when he was essentially just a child who knew nothing of the real world...and the reason he chose that life was to prove he could be honorable even as a bastard.  It's the naive thinking of a boy.

He's a man now, and I would hope that he would realize that there's more to life than honor and duty...and that he's been wasting his life worrying about what other people will think of him instead of actually trying to live his life.

I don't want to see him imprison himself out of a sense of 'duty' or 'honor'...I want to see him take this second chance at life as a sign that he wasn't meant to rot away in a prison camp of his own making.  That he has the right to be happy and to live his life without worrying what others think of him.  Otherwise, what's the point of his rebirth?  If he's going to be the same as before, then there is no point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being that the words of the oath are so important, I have to wonder that even on death, one could not be released of his vows until all the brothers do the "and now his watch has ended" bit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Clash said:

LOL Really?

And who were the last two Lord Commanders then? Or more specifically who was the last one that was murdered?

:D

Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow? Unless you think splitting hairs over Jon's resurrection doesn't count, but then again isn't that what this topic is about?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Ser Morbid said:

People tend to forget he is still bastard and I doubt that he will be legitimized any time soon .. at least not till Tommen sits the throne 

In the show, Jon has already been legitimized by Robb who was at the time King in the North. I can't remember who was in the room at the time but I bet Karstark was one of them.

This is one of the bigger holes in R+L=J. The only way that Jon can take the throne is by force of arms even if he is the legitimate Targ heir. In the show, Robb has already legitimized him and in effect made him king in the north in his own right.

So being a Targ bastard rather than a Stark isn't actually a promotion for Jon. On the contrary, he is no longer the son of Ned Stark which was the basis for Robb's action. 

Remember that in Jon's dream he is running down to the crypts believing he is not a Stark. Now that must surely happen in episode 9. I think the key to the mystery will be in Lyanna's tomb. Probably the sword Dawn (though GRRM says it is elsewhere).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hallam said:

In the show, Jon has already been legitimized by Robb who was at the time King in the North. I can't remember who was in the room at the time but I bet Karstark was one of them.

This is one of the bigger holes in R+L=J. The only way that Jon can take the throne is by force of arms even if he is the legitimate Targ heir. In the show, Robb has already legitimized him and in effect made him king in the north in his own right.

So being a Targ bastard rather than a Stark isn't actually a promotion for Jon. On the contrary, he is no longer the son of Ned Stark which was the basis for Robb's action. 

Remember that in Jon's dream he is running down to the crypts believing he is not a Stark. Now that must surely happen in episode 9. I think the key to the mystery will be in Lyanna's tomb. Probably the sword Dawn (though GRRM says it is elsewhere).

I believe it was in the books, not show that mentions Jon being legitimized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many speak of the "Wall falling", are they visualizing the phyical destruction of the Wall?  I'm wondering if when Wun-Wun burst through the South gates and the Wildlings poured through, wasn't that in fact the Wall falling, as in the Fall of Bataan and Corregidor, P.I. during WW2?  When the Watch put up their hands in surrender.  The "Wall" had literally fallen.  After thousands of years, the Watch no longer controls the Wall.

When doubting Thomas' views Jon's wounds, as in; "...  I show you sweet Caesar’s wounds—poor, speechless mouths!—and make them speak for me. But if I were Brutus and Brutus were me, then I’d stir you up, and install in each of Caesar’s wounds the kind of voice that could convince even stones to rise up and mutiny. "--Julius Caesar: Act 3, Scene 2, Page 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2016 at 5:35 PM, Snowman3131 said:

and become a full Stark. Rally the north against the psychopath Ramsay. 

When you take the black, your "watch ends" at your death. He died. He's free to go, or take the black again I suppose. 

I think nobody would accept that. Imagine it: "Jon! Have you deserted the Night Watch?!" ?Oh no, no, I didn't! I died and was resurrected, so I technically am free to go!" "Oh, Jon, couldn't you make up a more believable lie? Like, trying to pass yourself for your own long lost twin brother or something..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said:

I think nobody would accept that. Imagine it: "Jon! Have you deserted the Night Watch?!" ?Oh no, no, I didn't! I died and was resurrected, so I technically am free to go!" "Oh, Jon, couldn't you make up a more believable lie? Like, trying to pass yourself for your own long lost twin brother or something..."

This. Even if technically he would be free who would beleive him? How could he prove that he indeed died and it is not just a cheap lie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Jon will really care about his oath, what people will think about him at this point, or anything like that.

I believe he will realize that he has things to get done, and he can't do it by staying at the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2016 at 11:28 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Eh, if Jon wanted to leave the Watch, the fact that they murdered their last two lord commanders is sufficient reason to leave. Going around telling everyone you died but you're back is just going to get people to think you're crazy.

Because nobody believed Dondarrion was actually killed multiple times?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

Because nobody believed Dondarrion was actually killed multiple times?

BwB believed it, but who else? Of course, the wildlings and a few watchmen will believe it, but would it be enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Net-Viper X said:

I don't think it should release him from his vows, since he isn't really dead. The vows don't specify that if you happen to die and be brought back then you are off the hook. Its service for all the days of your life, and if he has been brought back then he has life again, and that life belongs to the Watch. Even if they do decide that since he was killed he can be let off from his vows, I hope he turns it down. Jon chose of his own will to be a man of the watch and I hope he stays true to that.

Arya, Gendry and the Hound didn't question it. Melisandre didn't question it. Everyone seemed to take it at face value. 

As an aside, this makes me wonder if every powerful nobleman is going to start importing Red Priests/Priestesses to their employ for the purpose of resurrecting them and their loved ones upon death. It would also have some weighty implications with respect to Westeros' faith in the Seven.

I'm not a religious person, but if an Islamic cleric could bring someone back from the dead and science could verify it.... a salaam alaikum!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point it is obvious that the Nights Watch is going to require a major, major organization change. The only way that the NW can survive at all is by recruiting from the Wildings. And they are not going to be interested in the NW oath. 

Jon knows that the other are coming - he has seen the night's king. And defeating the other is the great task that the NW was created to perform. The oath is merely a tool to make that possible.

Oh and do not forget that Ramsay Bolton is coming to attack next episode (or episode 4). So there is going to be a battle and that can only be won with the help of the wildings. By attacking the NW, Ramsay gives Jon the casus belli to attack Winterfell.

Big changes are coming and Jon is going to be at the head of the only force that can stop the other. In the war against the other, being out of contention for the Iron throne is an advantage. The point at which Jon's position will be tested is after the other are defeated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the only brothers of the Night’s Watch who aren’t with the mutineers were those scant few in the room when the wildings busted down the door.

That means you can count the Nights Watch on the fingers of one of Davos’s apocopated hands.

They really don’t seem to matter any longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

Because nobody believed Dondarrion was actually killed multiple times?

Outside his immediate social circle, who are already suspect in the eyes of most? No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2016 at 4:28 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Eh, if Jon wanted to leave the Watch, the fact that they murdered their last two lord commanders is sufficient reason to leave. Going around telling everyone you died but you're back is just going to get people to think you're crazy.

 

On 6/5/2016 at 5:45 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow? Unless you think splitting hairs over Jon's resurrection doesn't count, but then again isn't that what this topic is about?

You don't get the inherent contradiction in going around saying they murdered their last two Lord Commanders when you were one of them? But telling people that you came back from the dead would make you look crazy?

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2016 at 9:55 PM, hallam said:

In the show, Jon has already been legitimized by Robb who was at the time King in the North. I can't remember who was in the room at the time but I bet Karstark was one of them.

This is one of the bigger holes in R+L=J. The only way that Jon can take the throne is by force of arms even if he is the legitimate Targ heir. In the show, Robb has already legitimized him and in effect made him king in the north in his own right.

So being a Targ bastard rather than a Stark isn't actually a promotion for Jon. On the contrary, he is no longer the son of Ned Stark which was the basis for Robb's action. 

Remember that in Jon's dream he is running down to the crypts believing he is not a Stark. Now that must surely happen in episode 9. I think the key to the mystery will be in Lyanna's tomb. Probably the sword Dawn (though GRRM says it is elsewhere).

Jon hasn't been legitimized in the show. That only happened in the books.

R+L= J won't help Jon take the Iron Throne. His marriage to Daenerys will.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a big problem for both the show and the novels. The novel and the shows all have grown popular because there isn't this evil vs good motif, but rather a huge grey area. Yes, some characters are down right evil like Joffrey or Ramsey but most other characters act very naturally, especially when compared to medieval period.

As the plot has progressed, the motif of good vs evil has taken a step up. Will the other ever become this huge threat? They talk as if the war between humans is nothing, again suggesting good vs evil in the up coming episodes

if this is going to be a good vs evil, then the others will have to destroy the wall and the nights watch. That may be Jons way out.

 

on the other hand he might leave the nights watch in order to save it by becoming king and amassing a huge army. Along with bran doing my something similar to Frodo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Jon hasn't been legitimized in the show. That only happened in the books.

It didn’t happen in the books, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:15 AM, sj4iy said:

He chose that life when he was essentially just a child who knew nothing of the real world...and the reason he chose that life was to prove he could be honorable even as a bastard.  It's the naive thinking of a boy.

He's a man now, and I would hope that he would realize that there's more to life than honor and duty...and that he's been wasting his life worrying about what other people will think of him instead of actually trying to live his life.

I don't want to see him imprison himself out of a sense of 'duty' or 'honor'...I want to see him take this second chance at life as a sign that he wasn't meant to rot away in a prison camp of his own making.  That he has the right to be happy and to live his life without worrying what others think of him.  Otherwise, what's the point of his rebirth?  If he's going to be the same as before, then there is no point.

100% agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×