[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[sandpiper]

Showrunners might have been having some difficulties over the planned length of the series. Which would affect what is to be cut or included. I would not yet write off Dorn or Aegon. Without reading the books it is impossible to tell if these storyline are ultimately important or red herrings. We are not past the point where these characters could still be introduced.

[Crixus]

Considering the talk around '13 more episodes' I think it's far too late for new characters. And judging by this season so far, the show's gone into wrap up mode IMO. 

[kissdbyfire]

14 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

In the books fAegon arrives via taking Dragonstone - her birthplace. I suspect she'll take over his storyline and rock up to Westeros, on Euron's ships, taking the eastern route, thus cutting Dorne out altogether.

Huh? They land on Cape Wrath and Greenstone, near Storm's End.

[A bowl of brown]

34 minutes ago, majgat said:

 Well there's no indication of any Dornish army anywhere (surprising, when we know Westeros internet coverage is everywhere).

Does Dorne need an army though when they have teleporting psycho ninjas/greedy bitches/bad pussy?

[House Cambodia]

24 minutes ago, sandpiper said:

Showrunners might have been having some difficulties over the planned length of the series. Which would affect what is to be cut or included. I would not yet write off Dorn or Aegon. Without reading the books it is impossible to tell if these storyline are ultimately important or red herrings. We are not past the point where these characters could still be introduced.

I've just been reading the Arianne II except from TWOW just released by GRRM. Dorn and Aegon are unquestionably important in the books, but I concur with those who say that in the Show it's too late to bring them in: cutting stories is the order of the day, not introducing new ones (Euron aside).

[Conchobar]

Why were both of Arthur Dayne's swords covered in blood after Ned killed the blonde kingsguard? Arthur had yet to kill anyone with them, and yet they magically got covered in blood while Ned was killed Ser Whent.

[The_half_fan]

2 hours ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

But it is as it is. As I said before, a bad GoT episode is better than 90% of what’s on the air at this time. And there are millions of people who seem to agree with this statement every week while the show airs.

You cant use top line viewership figures to justify that GoT is better than 90% of what's on air. We don't know what the viewership churn is. We don't know how much is spent on advertising (paying bloggers to write fake stories, wining-dining to keep magazine critics sweet, writing fake reviews on fan sites in the name of 'community management' ). We don't know how much GoT is riding on the back of the buzz generated from season 1-3.

GoT now is like a movie franchise gone bad eg Matrix 2 & 3, Hunger games 3 & 4, Hobbit 1 & 2, all later Superman movies. The new viewers joining late don't know how good the show was and are going along with the hype. Majority of old viewers could have dropped off for all we know. There are ways to measure these things eg retention, Net Promoter Score.

Make your point but don't use the wrong metrics please!

I don't watch much TV except for GoT.  All I can say is the show from S1-3 was great. There was a drop in S4 but it was still good (Oberyn, Tyrion trial, Joffrey wedding). S5 & 6 are incredibly bad. How it compares to the rest of the TV, I simply cant say. I can say for sure is that GoT can do 10x better by getting the basics right.

They need to write a coherent story that spans seasons. They need to focus on the scripts. The barebones nitty gritty basics. That is what made them great. 

[House Cambodia]

14 minutes ago, Conchobar said:

Why were both of Arthur Dayne's swords covered in blood after Ned killed the blonde kingsguard? Arthur had yet to kill anyone with them, and yet they magically got covered in blood while Ned was killed Ser Whent.

Ned's party numbered 6. Bloke #2 (Hightower? Whent?) carked sharpish, leaving 4 + the wounded craggy to be poked by Dayne.

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, The_half_fan said:

You cant use top line viewership figures to justify that GoT is better than 90% of what's on air. We don't know what the viewership churn is. We don't know how much is spent on advertising (paying bloggers to write fake stories, wining-dining to keep magazine critics sweet, writing fake reviews on fan sites in the name of 'community management' ). We don't know how much GoT is riding on the back of the buzz generated from season 1-3.

GoT now is like a movie franchise gone bad eg Matrix 2 & 3, Hunger games 3 & 4, Hobbit 1 & 2, all later Superman movies. The new viewers joining late don't know how good the show was and are going along with the hype. Majority of old viewers could have dropped off for all we know. There are ways to measure these things eg retention, Net Promoter Score.

Make your point but don't use the wrong metrics please!

I don't watch TV except for nature documentaries. I don't watch much mainstream hollywood either. I selectively watch indie cinema. So my sense of quality is probably skewed. All I can say is the show from S1-3 was great. There was a drop in S4 but it was still good (Oberyn, Tyrion trial, Joffrey wedding). S5 & 6 are incredibly bad. How it compares to the rest of the TV, I simply cant say. I can say for sure is that GoT can do 10x better by getting the basics right.

They need to write a coherent story that spans seasons. They need to focus on the scripts. The barebones nitty gritty basics. That is what made them great. 

The problems lay in the show's formulation. Specifically in the way it tried to make use of its air time. I can safely say it's a one of a kind show. There is no other show like it. Because no other show airs its scene events in 5 minute intervals. Because of this obvious structuring, it has lead to so much deviation. This deviation has lead to a lack of formulation, causing one scene to teleport onto the next without much structure. That structure was always placing X on top of Y, to drive a plot where only those involved knew its complete purpose, without offering much of an explanation of why X had even appeared to begin with, because their purpose was driving this plot by juggling so many scenes at the same time. This lack of structuring or the way that so many scenes have been combined, has lead to a loss of continuity, or the chopping of the meat off the bone. Sadly it has created a one of a kind show, but sometimes its formulation has lead to error. The books jump after chapters of explanation presenting that each detail has been set into a structure which doesn't miss out on its point of what X was doing, where they are going, and how they got there.

I am sure it has been debated before, that duration. Although in hindsight shouldn't each episode have been formulated into driving maybe 3 scenes events out of a 15 minute or more duration each, but providing much more scene time in those episodes where it converges? This way it could have created a better story, providing any of the details missed, but remembering what X has done from one minute to the next, and why Y was necessary. Therefore causing less deviation, possibly also spending less resources.

With the amount of resources spent, it has generated bigger business, sometimes manipulating reviews and so forth. Although it was always a one of a kind show. Where it received its status, was obviously because it was a one of a kind show, but it was from the formulation in providing its acts with status in Season 1. Later when it did the bigger 15 minute scenes formulating them into its last Season 5. Although that was also a double edged sword to keep its bigger business intact, because the CGI had some errors, although it was unlike anything else experienced within a TV show.

 

[Johnston]

2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

1) I didn't see it as Jon handing over full command. As when Mormont was killed, there was an interim commander (Thorne) before elections were held - as deputy commander, Edd has to now be the interim commander.

2) True, IF Jon is abandoning the NW. I doubt that he is. Presumably the next LC and the remnants of the NW will be loyal to Jon, understanding that (a) unity with the massively outnumbering Wildings depends on his authority, and (b) recognition that Jon understands the WW far better than anyone else.  Rather, I see Jon as a warlord uniting anti-Bolton forces in the North in order to bring strength and unity to the North in order to face the WW.

Thats how I took it.  IIRC Jon says something like 'The Wall is yours' 

 

Which Again IIRC was said to Edd during the Wildling attack when Jon left him at the top with the Archers. 

[Low Sparrow]

People are still defending the show for reasons of budget and time? Really? After Dorne "people" still claim that? If time and budget were a concern they could have left it out all together.Thus no need to budget a new location, new sets and six new principals... and tons of screen time would have been available for other things. All references to Dorne and what's going on there could have been limited to small council discussions and such, and that would have been way better than the debacle and colossal waste it was.

If they wanted to save more money and plot problems, they could have Brienne go on a rampage and kill all the remaining principals (with the exception of their favs, Carol and TyOneOn. It would be shocking!

For the remaining episodes, they could just have Brienne meet new people and kill them. Carol could continue killing peasants who think her breasts are saggy, don't approve of incest, or dislike her musical taste. And TyOneOn could wander from town to town telling dick jokes.

Hm, that wouldn't be that much different from what's happening now.

[House Toad]

26 minutes ago, Johnston said:

Thats how I took it.  IIRC Jon says something like 'The Wall is yours' 

 

Which Again IIRC was said to Edd during the Wildling attack when Jon left him at the top with the Archers. 

Doesn't it mean signalling that the wall has fallen? The watch has ended, face the Bastards off, prompting a savior? Retreat for the masses to somewhere else fertile escaping winter, as its victor lives another legend? Pigeons cause more unrest changing some players, gaining Littlerfinger's attention. As the Tyrells face off the Dornish. Meanwhile down south Dany is deciding how she wants to manipulate the Dothraki, before any Ironborn join the gangbang because they has a ship. Banks decide what revenue streams are important. Before any later spring clean?

[majgat]

12 minutes ago, Low Sparrow said:

People are still defending the show for reasons of budget and time? Really? After Dorne "people" still claim that? If time and budget were a concern they could have left it out all together.Thus no need to budget a new location, new sets and six new principals... and tons of screen time would have been available for other things. All references to Dorne and what's going on there could have been limited to small council discussions and such, and that would have been way better than the debacle and colossal waste it was.

If they wanted to save more money and plot problems, they could have Brienne go on a rampage and kill all the remaining principals (with the exception of their favs, Carol and TyOneOn. It would be shocking!

For the remaining episodes, they could just have Brienne meet new people and kill them. Carol could continue killing peasants who think her breasts are saggy, don't approve of incest, or dislike her musical taste. And TyOneOn could wander from town to town telling dick jokes.

Hm, that wouldn't be that much different from what's happening now.

I also do not understand D&D whining about not have sufficient time. 10 episodes are less than they would hope for. Well....yeah when you put in useless drivel that gets the plot nowhere (Tyrion, GW and Missandei and whole KL latest). Duh.

[House Cambodia]

^ You get all of that from 

Quote

'The Wall is yours' 

[Johnston]

31 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Doesn't it mean signalling that the wall has fallen? The watch has ended, face the Bastards off, prompting a savior? Retreat for the masses to somewhere else fertile escaping winter, as its victor lives another legend? Pigeons cause more unrest changing some players, gaining Littlerfinger's attention. As the Tyrells face off the Dornish. Meanwhile down south Dany is deciding how she wants to manipulate the Dothraki, before any Ironborn join the gangbang because they has a ship. Banks decide what revenue streams are important. Before any later spring clean?

Don't think so.

 

To me it was no more than 'Ryker you have the Bridge' 

[Conchobar]

1 hour ago, House Cambodia said:

Ned's party numbered 6. Bloke #2 (Hightower? Whent?) carked sharpish, leaving 4 + the wounded craggy to be poked by Dayne.

Doesn't explain all the blood on both his swords, he only wounded Howland.

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, Conchobar said:

Doesn't explain all the blood on both his swords, he only wounded Howland.

What about the 4 dead? We saw at least one chap with the sword go right through him.

[Conchobar]

2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

What about the 4 dead? We saw at least one chap with the sword go right through him.

Look at the moment just after Ned kills the first guy, then goes to Arthur, at this moment, his swords are covered in blood, before he kills anyone.

[House Cambodia]

Okay, I'll look again

[Ingelheim]

7 minutes ago, Conchobar said:

Doesn't explain all the blood on both his swords, he only wounded Howland.

No. He killed 4 of them.

Did you watch the scene?