[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, apovsic said:

And Ned's tone when he talks with Dayne (sadness, what is this?).

Well, to put it short, everything else than Reed's backstabbing 

This. I don't care about the backstabbing. That is probably a spoiler from the books that we will learn. I don't care about that. It's a melee. on life and death. Not a duel or trial by combat over somebody's honor. Melee fighting will be dirty fighting. 

My issue is with the aggressive and accusing, "Why wheren't you with your prince?", and "Where's my sister?!" and arrogant, "No, now it ends," and the last blow not being depicted as a mercy blow, but angry and aggressive, while Ned's behavior in KL and reason to go to Storm's End before he arrived at the ToJ shows that Ned was a man who tried to make people surrender or leave, which is exactly what Ned tries to accomplish in the dream. And by returning the sword Dawn, Ned again shows the respect he felt for Arthur. Ned knew Arthur. He had a shy crush on Arthur's sister. These people were acquaintances, but before they could ever be friends they ended up at opposite sides. But imo there can be no doubt that Ned and Dayne knew they would have liked each other in another situation. That's the whole tragedy. That's why Arthur smiles sadly. That's why Ned says "Now it ends," sadly. When Ned says he thinks Arthur was the greatest knight he ever saw, he doesn't just mean "best fighter" (which is the particular wording they use in the show), but everything that comes with "knighthood".

But the way they have Ned kill off Arthur in the end and how he speaks to him before hte fight shows nothing of that respect and sadness and inevitable tragedy he fellt about it. Instead, the show's scene seems more like Dayne trying to give Ned a chance not to push for it and leave.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

9 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

"Let's make a hero of the guy who gives rapists and pedophiles children!!"

Good thing it if the twitter reaction to the article is true making LF "remorseful" might be another Dorne

[Tijgy]

Is it also not out of character for Ned to be so arrogant? We are talking about the Silent Wolf here who is very shy. We are talking about the guy who after more than a decade still is bitter he is taking his brother face and who have to wear a mask to enact his duties as a lord? Who is always called gentle? 

That Ned on the show was not Ned from the books.   

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Tijgy said:

Is it also not out of character for Ned to be so arrogant? We are talking about the Silent Wolf here who is very shy. We are talking about the guy who after more than a decade still is bitter he is taking his brother face and who have to wear a mask to enact his duties as a lord? Who is always called gentle? 

That Ned on the show was not Ned from the books.   

I don't think it's truly a mask with Ned when he's the Lord. Robert knows him the longest and refers to him as having a frozen face. Ned has North, coldness and Stark in him. But he's not the braggart type. And while Ned always felt disgust for Jaime, he never felt anything like that for the three kingsguard at ToJ. So, yes, arrogant Ned Stark at ToJ is completely out of character.

[Johnston]

Maybe arrogant Ned hung about Dorne after and had some Bad Pussy he got by bragging, 9 months later Jon. 

[Sir Loin Steak]

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

That Ned on the show was not Ned from the books.   

Bizarro!Ned doesn't fit with Sean Bean's version, much less the books.

--------------

From that ewww article interview Aiden Gillen

Quote

The Bolton sigil is a flayed man so he probably should have guessed, right?
(1) I know. To the viewers who have seen so much of Ramsay Snow, they’ve seen him do all these cruel acts. And you feel like the world knows his reputation. But in the world of our story everyone does not know. A lot happens behind closed doors, or closed gates. So I know it seems unlikely Petyr Baelish, who knows everything, would be unaware of his reputation and the depths of his cruelty. (2) In a way, this shows a new side of him, a faltering, and I do want to make amends. I like Sansa, you know? So I’m trying to find something humane and gentle and maybe even warm in the midst of my treachery and calculation – which is pathological. That stuff is so much part of Littlefinger I barely notice it. I’m always talking to people about his “paternal warmth” and they’re like, “What are you talking about?” But you can only do what’s on the page.

You bring your little hints and inflections to it, though, you customize your delivery beyond the words.
(3) That’s the trick, isn’t it? To try and impose your view of the character. But [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] don’t tolerate messing around with words. If you want to make the most minute change, a word or phrasing, you have to put the request in well in advance because on the day of [filming] there’s not enough time. David and Dan are open to giving them what they don’t expect in the line read, or the tone. And they are open to discussion, but they’re not easily pushed.

(1) Pretty much acknowledges the incongruousness of LF not being aware of Ramsay-sue. Even with the rationalisation that "it happens behind closed doors" which is both incorrect and still doesn't fit with the otherwise implausibly well-informed LF (let alone the issue of a schemer entering into a situation where he's aware that he doesn't have the necessary information), it's basically acknowledging that the show did a poor job of conveying this to the viewer.

(2) The rationalisations here are insane. Am I reading this right? That he sees the character as having "paternal warmth" and that that's what the scripts convey? Or is that his own take on the character and he's saying he feels limited by the scripts? The character was clearly grooming a girl in her early teens (time is a mess on the show but Sansa states she is 14 at the time of marrying Tyrion), because he was transferring his obsession with Catelyn to her daughter, which was disturbed enough. Then he went batshit crazy and "asked" her to enter into the nightmare that was Winterhell. Even if you handwave away that he didn't know anything about Ramsay (which is absurd) - he literally took her from one forced marriage to a member of a family that orchestrated the Red Wedding to another one. He gave her family's usurpers the means to legitimise their claim (and for no tangible benefit at that), he left her there with zero support for approximately the amount of time it took Walda to not only get pregnant but to go on to deliver the baby. He trapped her in a situation where the only possible outcome was repeated rape. What part of that says "paternal warmth" to him!? Where is he seeing "something humane and gentle"? He's puzzled that people don't get it!?

(3) This reinforces how belligerent D&D are about their "vision" for the material, which again suggests to me that this "read" on the character derives from them.

[A Ghost of Someone]

The show runners deliberately do different things because they want too. ignorance or arrogance, take your pick. This was not the first thing and it sure will not be the last.

[ArabellaVidal]

2 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Oh joy. Why? 

So that when Sansa 'slays' him it will be because she's angry at him and not because he destroyed her family deliberately and deserved to be lawfully executed.

[PuddleFace]

Hey guys! I haven't posted here in a while but I saw something interesting and I'd like to share it. One of the extras on set provided some spoilers on the Battle of the Bastards. Idk if it is 100% true but what the heck. I'll spoiler it incase some people don't want to be spoiled

 

 

 

the screenshot

http://i.imgur.com/BPnVKH9.jpg

 

 

Sorry if this has already been posted

[ArabellaVidal]

1 hour ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Bizarro!Ned doesn't fit with Sean Bean's version, much less the books.

--------------

From that ewww article interview Aiden Gillen

(1) Pretty much acknowledges the incongruousness of LF not being aware of Ramsay-sue. Even with the rationalisation that "it happens behind closed doors" which is both incorrect and still doesn't fit with the otherwise implausibly well-informed LF (let alone the issue of a schemer entering into a situation where he's aware that he doesn't have the necessary information), it's basically acknowledging that the show did a poor job of conveying this to the viewer.

(2) The rationalisations here are insane. Am I reading this right? That he sees the character as having "paternal warmth" and that that's what the scripts convey? Or is that his own take on the character and he's saying he feels limited by the scripts? The character was clearly grooming a girl in her early teens (time is a mess on the show but Sansa states she is 14 at the time of marrying Tyrion), because he was transferring his obsession with Catelyn to her daughter, which was disturbed enough. Then he went batshit crazy and "asked" her to enter into the nightmare that was Winterhell. Even if you handwave away that he didn't know anything about Ramsay (which is absurd) - he literally took her from one forced marriage to a member of a family that orchestrated the Red Wedding to another one. He gave her family's usurpers the means to legitimise their claim (and for no tangible benefit at that), he left her there with zero support for approximately the amount of time it took Walda to not only get pregnant but to go on to deliver the baby. He trapped her in a situation where the only possible outcome was repeated rape. What part of that says "paternal warmth" to him!? Where is he seeing "something humane and gentle"? He's puzzled that people don't get it!?

(3) This reinforces how belligerent D&D are about their "vision" for the material, which again suggests to me that this "read" on the character derives from them.

Oh good grief! They have no shame. As for Aiden Gillen and other actors' talking philosophy and character motivation, they seem just as confused as the average viewer trying to honeypot the varying idiocies of the show. Personally, I prefer Ian McShane's style which is very revealing of the freedom to express his true feelings because he has neither any past nor future attachment to the show. He made money. He got to act on a high profile show in a much anticipated scene and then he's free. Good for him! It is only tits (body parts as well as derogatory term) and dragons (no direwolves or ravens either).

[Toth]

2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

The show runners deliberately do different things because they want too. ignorance or arrogance, take your pick. This was not the first thing and it sure will not be the last.

Well, apparently according the Inside the Episode, they openly stated that. I haven't seen it (blergh), but someone said they wanted to expose Ned as a lyer and deconstruct the myth of the honorable lord or some similar bullshit. Can anyone confirm that?

If this is their reason, I can't help but call it malicious. They clearly hate honor as a theme, considering how negative it is connotated in this show in which 'realism' means everyone being shitty to everyone ever. Considering how much true Eddard runs on honor, it is clear they wanted to posthumously piss on that. Even though I believe the 'bragging about having killed the Sword in Morning' thing was actually just incidental through the careless way in which they 'needed' to script Bran's surprise. Just another line they threw in without thinking, but one that amplified what's wrong with the scene quite heavily.

[OldGimletEye]

3 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Good thing it if the twitter reaction to the article is true making LF "remorseful" might be another Dorne

LF's "remorseful" season. Now, I've heard it all. And the bullshit just keeps on a coming.

So, like in what episode does BAB declare LF a Marshal of The North and present him a baton?

[Stannis is the man....nis]

You know what really pisses me off? D&D now have no justification for their Stannis' change at first one could argue "well the Starks winning is more 'emotionally satisfying' (barf)" but now? They changed Stannis arch to give it to LF

[LadySoftheart]

28 minutes ago, Toth said:

If this is their reason, I can't help but call it malicious. They clearly hate honor as a theme, considering how negative it is connotated in this show in which 'realism' means everyone being shitty to everyone ever. Considering how much true Eddard runs on honor, it is clear they wanted to posthumously piss on that. 

It's not just Ned - honor and oaths and what oaths you should keep and how to continue being honorable in a crapsack world is such a HUGE part of SO MANY CHARACTERS' stories - Jon Snow, Brienne, Jaime, Davos, Sam, Robb, the Freys, and so many others, the idea of honor/dishonor runs through the series like a golden thread, and it's important. It's important to the characters and to the world they live in. I personally think they were trying to make it no big deal that Jon just up and renounces his Night's Watch vows, because whatever, look even Ned Stark wasn't honorable. (This was the rationale that they used for Robb to break his vows and marry Talisa - that he saw that it was no use being honorable because it gets you killed or whathveyou - when Book!Robb was actually acting in accordance with what he perceived as honor, and as protecting Jeyne's honor not just because she was pretty and he thought his Frey bride would look like a weasel.) Martin is always asking us to think about these vows and the concept of honor, to figure out what is honorable, and also when dishonor (breaking your vows) is necessary. But it's never taken lightly. And I think they are exactly trying to make Jon's renunciation of his Night's Watch vows really not be a big deal, just as Sam apparently couldn't wait to bang Gilly and was totally in favor of running away from Castle Black.

It's almost as if they just didn't grasp the fundamental themes of the series or something

 

[Tyrek Lannister]

4 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

"Let's make a hero of the guy who gives rapists and pedophiles children!!"

"Remorseful"

 

Oh my god. It is happening. Our worst fears are coming true.

[Prince of the North]

36 minutes ago, Toth said:

Well, apparently according the Inside the Episode, they openly stated that. I haven't seen it (blergh), but someone said they wanted to expose Ned as a lyer and deconstruct the myth of the honorable lord or some similar bullshit. Can anyone confirm that?

If this is their reason, I can't help but call it malicious. They clearly hate honor as a theme, considering how negative it is connotated in this show in which 'realism' means everyone being shitty to everyone ever. Considering how much true Eddard runs on honor, it is clear they wanted to posthumously piss on that. Even though I believe the 'bragging about having killed the Sword in Morning' thing was actually just incidental through the careless way in which they 'needed' to script Bran's surprise. Just another line they threw in without thinking, but one that amplified what's wrong with the scene quite heavily.

 

2 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

It's not just Ned - honor and oaths and what oaths you should keep and how to continue being honorable in a crapsack world is such a HUGE part of SO MANY CHARACTERS' stories - Jon Snow, Brienne, Jaime, Davos, Sam, Robb, the Freys, and so many others, the idea of honor/dishonor runs through the series like a golden thread, and it's important. It's important to the characters and to the world they live in. I personally think they were trying to make it no big deal that Jon just up and renounces his Night's Watch vows, because whatever, look even Ned Stark wasn't honorable. (This was the rationale that they used for Robb to break his vows and marry Talisa - that he saw that it was no use being honorable because it gets you killed or whathveyou - when Book!Robb was actually acting in accordance with what he perceived as honor, and as protecting Jeyne's honor not just because she was pretty and he thought his Frey bride would look like a weasel.) Martin is always asking us to think about these vows and the concept of honor, to figure out what is honorable, and also when dishonor (breaking your vows) is necessary. But it's never taken lightly. And I think they are exactly trying to make Jon's renunciation of his Night's Watch vows really not be a big deal, just as Sam apparently couldn't wait to bang Gilly and was totally in favor of running away from Castle Black.

It's almost as if they just didn't grasp the fundamental themes of the series or something

 

Precisely!  Well said!  One word: Anachronism*

*I'll never get tired of pointing out the show's fundamental (and very deliberate) flaw of looking through an extremely anachronistic lens at a story in a medieval setting.

[TepidHands]

How low can they go? It's like drinking game of questionable ethical decisions. Rape a virgin? Drink. Kill a kid? Drink. Your liver and mortal soul are being poisoned! 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

In relation to EW interview from BatFinger. 

Oh Aiden the sneaky little shit, we should thank him.  I think he's telling us, straight out, that BatFinger is all on D&D.  Seven Save Me..........they make me feel violent.  I'm feeling that something in this interview may be as quote worthy as........it makes sense because we wanted it to happen.  But, I'd have to actually read the entire interview to be sure, and one thing I detest more than watching this damn show is......reading articles about this damn show.  It's a catch 22, LOL  Still, I thank Aiden for setting us straight on how much the D's really are to blame for this mess.  

(3) That’s the trick, isn’t it? To try and impose your view of the character. But [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] don’t tolerate messing around with words. If you want to make the most minute change, a word or phrasing, you have to put the request in well in advance because on the day of [filming] there’s not enough time. David and Dan are open to giving them what they don’t expect in the line read, or the tone. And they are open to discussion, but they’re not easily pushed.

[LadySoftheart]

5 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

How low can they go? It's like drinking game of questionable ethical decisions. Rape a virgin? Drink. Kill a kid? Drink. Your liver and mortal soul are being poisoned! 

Ah, but don't forget there is no mortal soul or afterlife, that's what Jon Snow saw when he was dead. Nothing is nothing and nothing matters except revenge.

[The Knight of Flours]

20 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

it could be that there was some final straw and he stopped working with the show.  Up through season 4 he still seemed to be in touch with them, talking to the actors and a part of the process.  now, you would hardly know the show was airing based on his blog and he seems to have zero input.

Well he screened the entire season 5 at his cinema in the lead-up to season 6.  And he still seems very happy to put up info about GoT Emmy & Hugo Awards on his website.  

As EP I'm sure he still gets copies of the script to comment on (like last season where he urged them to weaken Jamie in his fights with Bron against the Dornish).

I'd prefer to believe he is at home concentrating on finishing the book.