Suddenly Davos remembers Stannis and Shireen?

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

more obtuseness so no doubt  a waste of time to explain but anyway..

Castle black is x number of days from winterfell.  

Melissandre leaves a day/ 2 days before sansa and arrives similarly in advance. 

the events at castle black in s5 ep 10 happen  AFTER the sansa events in winterfell in s6 ep 1, maybe a week later.

 Not exactly an unusual dramatic device 

Got it?

 

And by the same token and in advance of the same littlefinger jet pack nonsense, the events in s6 ep 4 could have happened very soon after  the events in s5 ep10... ...

 

 

 

That would have given Davos a week to ask Mel about Shireen and Stannis...my point exactly.

[MrsStocksey]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Wow.  So now Stannis army was bogged down only 4-5 hours from Castle Black? Ot is it 8 or 10?  And he still burns his daughter and won't ride back to get horses and food?  You've got to be kidding me.

I understand that many people just watch GOT for the individual segements and don't really care if they stack up together or make sense as a whole, which is fine, it's much more enjoyable that way.

But, really, the idea that it's been only 2 days between Mel's arrival and Sansa's arrival does not work even in the showverse of timing.  

My point is just that travelling on TV is not logical

A journey can take as long or as short an amount of time as the plot needs, somewhere can be far or near depending on the character....if you have ever watched the Blacklist it is hilarious, and makes GOT looks super logical!

So if you forget the other scenes and just look at the Castle Blacks time line there are no gaps, and therefore no chance for Davos to ask Mel anything....until this episode.

and yes....much more enjoyable to take the show for what it is rather than what it's not.

[Hos the Hostage]

1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

I'm thinking D&D wanted to create in internal struggle with Davos, by him finding out about Shireen/Stannis *after* Jons resurrection, that way Davos is stuck between praising Mel for Jon, and now finding out she's killed the Baratheons.  Think about it, if Davos found out *before* Jon came back, he would have never went to Mel to ask for her to perform the resurrection spell, (he would have been too pissed) so in essence, D&D had no choice but to reveal Shireen/Stannis' fate *after* Davos convinced Mel to ressurect Jon.

I see the logic in addressing it now (as opposed to before), but I do think it was poorly executed.  They didn't do a good job explaining it or making it believable.

 

 

Agree. It looks like Davos will find Shrieen's pyre (it was on the way to Winterfell, but before the site of battle) and the toy stag he made for her. Maybe he will kill Melisandre afterwards. With Jon resurrected, Melisandre may no longer be significant to the story.

[joaozinm]

He only asked about shireen last episode! im talking a about a full detailed story, not a sad face that seemed to explain the fate of his beloved king and people, he lived to serve stannis.

 

"ahh that was the only time he had to ask because jon snow was dead and the motim was knocking"

So what? Jon Snow must seem like a nice guy to him but was dead... Stannis was where his loyalty remained, Shireen, His son... F*** the lord commander, he cant mean that much to davos

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

That would have given Davos a week to ask Mel about Shireen and Stannis...my point exactly.

no it wouldn't -honestly.....

let me spell it out

16th may- snow melts, melissandre does a runner,

17th may battle, sansa escapes, sansa rescued by brienne sansa sets off for castle black

23rd may- mellissandre arrive at castle black, stabbing takes place 

25th may sansa arrives. 

 

Now do you get it? 

 

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, MrsStocksey said:

My point is just that travelling on TV is not logical

A journey can take as long or as short an amount of time as the plot needs, somewhere can be far or near depending on the character....if you have ever watched the Blacklist it is hilarious, and makes GOT looks super logical!

So if you forget the other scenes and just look at the Castle Blacks time line there are no gaps, and therefore no chance for Davos to ask Mel anything....until this episode.

and yes....much more enjoyable to take the show for what it is rather than what it's not.

Well, he already did ask her, and she didn't answer, just gave him a "look"...make this scene doubly weird since the tone was that he's asking for the first time...and he lets her walk away both times..and you might have thought that if he wanted Mel to resurrect someone it would be STANNIS, especially since only apparently 24 hours had passed and he might have easily rode out himself to find out what happened, since it's only a few hours ride..not even a whole day..

But, at least you admit it's not logical.

[SevasTra82]

3 minutes ago, Hos the Hostage said:

Agree. It looks like Davos will find Shrieen's pyre (it was on the way to Winterfell, but before the site of battle) and the toy stag he made for her. Maybe he will kill Melisandre afterwards. With Jon resurrected, Melisandre may no longer be significant to the story.

That may very well be the case.  Melisandre's role is pretty much over, unless they have plans to use her in some capacity in the Bolton Battle.  But right now, Mel; even after resurrecting Jon; seems to be slouching around, depressed, and unsure of herself still.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope that they give Mel a more meaningful death then just going all depressing on us and then getting killed off.  She's a very important cog to the story thus far, and I think she would deserve a more fitting death then a simple Osha-type of death.

[Greg B]

1 minute ago, MrsStocksey said:

My point is just that travelling on TV is not logical

I agree it's a TV trope, but it's magnified by the fact that the author of the source material is somewhat challenged by measures. If it's really 30,000 miles from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne, as Jon claims in ASOS, it's a wonder anyone ever gets anywhere. Westeros is really big, though the author is inconsistent on just how big. The least we can do is allow the showrunners some narrative flexibility in navigating the ambiguous and improbable geography of the world.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, SevasTra82 said:

That may very well be the case.  Melisandre's role is pretty much over, unless they have plans to use her in some capacity in the Bolton Battle.  But right now, Mel; even after resurrecting Jon; seems to be slouching around, depressed, and unsure of herself still.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope that they give Mel a more meaningful death then just going all depressing on us and then getting killed off.  She's a very important cog to the story thus far, and I think she would deserve a more fitting death then a simple Osha-type of death.

I hope Davos shanks her ASAP.  He's long overdue for killing her.  Plus, she's an awful person, she smirked all the way through Shireen's burning and then left Stannis to his fate. 

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

When you are face to face with this level of "criticism" of the show, you realise why so many of the people on here can't be pleased. A combination of nit picking with an inability to even think through their own nit picks logically.....

As opposed to a  book where they can magically suspend disbelief of the time signature as whole volumes go by without characters being mentioned. And the as yet unbridged  "5 year gap"....

The phrase about removing the beam in your own eye first before passing remark comes to mind. 

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Well, he already did ask her, and she didn't answer, just gave him a "look"...make this scene doubly weird since the tone was that he's asking for the first time...and he lets her walk away both times..and you might have thought that if he wanted Mel to resurrect someone it would be STANNIS, especially since only apparently 24 hours had passed...instead of forgetting the king he served for years in a matter of 12-24 hours and wanting a woman he hates to resurrect not Stannis but Jon Snow.

But, at least you admit it's not logical.

Maybe because that was the moment he got confirmation that Stannis and Shireen were dead and he was taken a back by it himself. 

He didn't forget. He asked. Got swept up in a mutiny that lasted two days, then asked right after.

At this point you are just looking for something to complain about. 

[MrsStocksey]

1 minute ago, Greg B said:

I agree it's a TV trope, but it's magnified by the fact that the author of the source material is somewhat challenged by measures. If it's really 30,000 miles from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne, as Jon claims in ASOS, it's a wonder anyone ever gets anywhere. Westeros is really big, though the author is inconsistent on just how big. The least we can do is allow the showrunners some narrative flexibility in navigating the ambiguous and improbable geography of the world.

Agreed....the author can't always keep clear the distances in the books so the show runners should be allowed a little grace.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

Maybe because that was the moment he got confirmation that Stannis and Shireen were dead and he was taken a back by it himself. 

He didn't forget. He asked. Got swept up in a mutiny that lasted two days, then asked right after.

At this point you are just looking for something to complain about. 

no forget about dramatic efficiency and elegance , We demand 24 style split screens and tell not show.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

no forget about dramatic efficiency and elegance , We demand 24 style split screens and tell not show.

No, I like characters to act logically.  I'm not the one who has attempted to put a timeline on the events, I only said it's absolutely impossible that it has only been 2 days from the time Mel arrived to the time Sansa arrived, the 2 days was some else's excuse for why Davos has interacted with Mel multiple times and never mentions Stannis or Shireen again until Brienne shows up.

I also gave two very easy 20 second fixes that would have had Davos acting logically and in character and changed nothing else...just some attention to detail on the part of the writers.  Very easy to eliminate the whole thing.

It's not me, it's them.  Sorry. 

But cary on.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

15 minutes ago, joaozinm said:

He only asked about shireen last episode! im talking a about a full detailed story, not a sad face that seemed to explain the fate of his beloved king and people, he lived to serve stannis.

 

"ahh that was the only time he had to ask because jon snow was dead and the motim was knocking"

So what? Jon Snow must seem like a nice guy to him but was dead... Stannis was where his loyalty remained, Shireen, His son... F*** the lord commander, he cant mean that much to davos

again, i wonder if you have ever watched a war movie and seen how people are portrayed to move on. 

[Ser Gareth]

3 hours ago, McAssey said:

It is as if Ser Davos had completely forgotten about Stannis and Shireen, and then suddenly he remembers them and asks Melisandre about their fate.  Did anyone else find that bizarre?

I think show viewers have to keep in mind off camera conversations, of which they'd be 100's.  In the books there are many of these too but the POV character thinks back to them.  Can't do that in the show.

I seriously doubt Ser Davos hasn't asked her but it's clear from that little scene in the show that she hasn't been answering and I certainly interpreted it as Davos literally pleading with her to tell him.  She didn't answer this time either, Brienne did.

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

again, i wonder if you have ever watched a war movie and seen how people are portrayed to move on. 

He moved on in a few hours I guess, according to the 2 day timeline.  That's mighty quick for a guy who started in Flea Bottom and was insanely loyal to Stannis and Shireen.  Mighty quick.  

But I've made my point, it's the same one I always make:  the show does not hang together, it is a string of barely related segments that lack any internal consistency from one beat to the next.  The same way Cersei has to be the one tell the Tyrells, yo, maybe if you bring your giant army into KL it will be some leverage against the High Cobbler..each segment may work okay dramatically as a stand alone piece, but they do not form a whole anymore.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No, I like characters to act logically.  I'm not the one who has attempted to put a timeline on the events, I only said it's absolutely impossible that it has only been 2 days from the time Mel arrived to the time Sansa arrived, the 2 days was some else's excuse for why Davos has interacted with Mel multiple times and never mentions Stannis or Shireen again until Brienne shows up.

I also gave two very easy 20 second fixes that would have had Davos acting logically and in character and changed nothing else...just some attention to detail on the part of the writers.  Very easy to eliminate the whole thing.

It's not me, it's them.  Sorry. 

But cary on.

and i've shown you by timeline how its perfectly possible. Once you put aside the idea that something shown in scene A in winterfell is happening at the same time as Scene B in castle black [ i.e. every show ever apart from single set shows or 24] .

Davos's first spoken dialogue since Jon came back to life was to turn back to ask about Shireen (not to mentioned off screen dialogue on the principle of show not tell). But not enough and to hell with the dramatic logic of building this up to the scene where he finds the pyre... Because who needs pacing in drama and its not like they don't get criticism for that in any event...

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

He moved on in a few hours I guess, according to the 2 day timeline.  That's mighty quick for a guy who started in Flea Bottom and was insanely loyal to Stannis and Shireen.  Mighty quick.  

But I've made my point, it's the same one I always make:  the show does not hang together, it is a string of barely related segments that lack any internal consistency from one beat to the next.  The same way Cersei has to be the one tell the Tyrells, yo, maybe if you bring your giant army into KL it will be some leverage against the High Cobbler..each segment may work okay dramatically as a stand alone piece, but they do not form a whole anymore.

You've made the point that the show fails to meet your expectations, but frankly 99% of your words were superfluous for making that point. And i somehow suspect that either you have very elevated standards for this show, or you don't watch many multi location dramas. 

 

[messem]

14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No, I like characters to act logically.  I'm not the one who has attempted to put a timeline on the events, I only said it's absolutely impossible that it has only been 2 days from the time Mel arrived to the time Sansa arrived

You like characters act logically. Start acting logically yourself. How is anything else than 2-3 days logically? Mel flees right before the battle. Sansa escapes during/after the battle. Mel rides to CB while Sansa encounters some problems on the way. 2-3 days are TOTALLY logical.