Suddenly Davos remembers Stannis and Shireen?

[The Golden Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I disagree. In the show, he's horrified by what's he done. In the books, he didn't come off as remorseful at all. It's one of the reasons I much prefer Show Stannis to his book version. Show Stannis actually shows emotion.

I can admit that Show!Stannis does show more emotion than Book!Stannis but that could just be because we spend more time with him individually as opposed to only through the eyes of Davos. 

[Dragon in the North]

1 minute ago, The Golden Wolf said:

I can admit that Show!Stannis does show more emotion than Book!Stannis but that could just be because we spend more time with him individually as opposed to only through the eyes of Davos. 

That's possible. I also thought Stephen Dillane did a wonderful job playing Stannis and thought it was a wise decision of the showrunners to make him the main character of his storyline.

[The Golden Wolf]

Yeah, I just wish so badly that season 5 stannis never happened just for sweet lil' shireen to still be alive 

[Jack Bauer 24]

1 hour ago, The Golden Wolf said:

Yeah, I just wish so badly that season 5 stannis never happened just for sweet lil' shireen to still be alive 

Good thing it happened the way Beinoff and Weiss wrote it. One of the many reasons they set Emmy records.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

6 hours ago, Darksky said:

Better yet: stop watching. Problem solved. Is someone forcing you to? Why do you keep doing it? Did you lose a bet? Do you just love negativity? Are you venting your frustrations because of TWOW never being published?

I hate spinach. But what if I ate it and kept doing it? Do you see any point to it? Why would I be doing it? Masochistic tendencies? Desire to rant about something? People are physically programmed to enjoy a good rant way more than staying objective/positive it seems. As if any of that matters at the end of the day.

The link in my sig sums up every fandom, but this one in particular.

 

Do you come on a forum to see everyone agreeing on everything? Everyone watches the show for the same reason, they like it, they have liked it before and they have expectations it will continue to be good enough for them to like it. or even surpass expectation. Its only normal to notice flaws in logic or wish they have done things a bit different. If you're incapable of seeing flaws you'll never correct them a be better.

[Smoke317]

6 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Your scenario doesn't work. Stannis was marching off to war, not going on a vacation with his family. Stannis losing the battle and getting his family killed was the most likely explanation.

My scenario does work. It's not a perfect example but it still fits. Because your reasoning for why it doesn't is "most likely explanation".  If two people I care about are dead and the one person I despise and don't trust was with them, yet this person returns alone, whether it's war or camping or the mountains or going to the grocery store, "most likely" ain't gonna be a good enough answer. I'm gonna need to know some "definite" details on what the hell happened especially since this most distrusted person strolls in alone.  Not with some wounded men that retreated. Not with the queen or the princess. How in the hell does she manage to be the sole survivor of a "most likely" all out slaughter???  Wasn't she the king's closest advisor since Davos wasn't present?  As one of only 3 females in this army of thousands wouldn't she be with the other 2 women or even worse but not likely at the king's side???  How in the hell does she manage to come back alone???  These are questions that any logical person is gonna ask right then and there. Not after you go use the bathroom or get something to eat or catch your breath. That bitch would have had to start talking as soon as she came through the damn gate by herself. They at least could have had her lie but the sorrowful look just didn't cut it for me. She was always so quick to talk lord of light this. Lord of light that. Well now she can tell what the hell happened...

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

My scenario does work. It's not a perfect example but it still fits. Because your reasoning for why it doesn't is "most likely explanation".  If two people I care about are dead and the one person I despise and don't trust was with them, yet this person returns alone, whether it's war or camping or the mountains or going to the grocery store, "most likely" ain't gonna be a good enough answer. I'm gonna need to know some "definite" details on what the hell happened especially since this most distrusted person strolls in alone.  Not with some wounded men that retreated. Not with the queen or the princess. How in the hell does she manage to be the sole survivor of a "most likely" all out slaughter???  Wasn't she the king's closest advisor since Davos wasn't present?  As one of only 3 females in this army of thousands wouldn't she be with the other 2 women or even worse but not likely at the king's side???  How in the hell does she manage to come back alone???  These are questions that any logical person is gonna ask right then and there. Not after you go use the bathroom or get something to eat or catch your breath. That bitch would have had to start talking as soon as she came through the damn gate by herself. They at least could have had her lie but the sorrowful look just didn't cut it for me. She was always so quick to talk lord of light this. Lord of light that. Well now she can tell what the hell happened...

No, it doesn't. The percentage of people who die in wars is significantly higher than people who die taking vacation. Stannis marched off to war with an army of unreliable sellswords into unfamiliar territory against an enemy who was better equipped and provisioned. Melisandre has always been Stannis's faithful servant. She's done questionable things, to be sure, but only against people she found to be inconsequential or were Stannis's enemies. Davos had no reason to suspect Melisandre had a hand in Stannis's downfall. As to why he didn't request details, when the shock wore off and things calmed down at Castle Black, that is exactly what he did.

[Smoke317]

33 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

No, it doesn't. The percentage of people who die in wars is significantly higher than people who die taking vacation. Stannis marched off to war with an army of unreliable sellswords into unfamiliar territory against an enemy who was better equipped and provisioned. Melisandre has always been Stannis's faithful servant. She's done questionable things, to be sure, but only against people she found to be inconsequential or were Stannis's enemies. Davos had no reason to suspect Melisandre had a hand in Stannis's downfall. As to why he didn't request details, when the shock wore off and things calmed down at Castle Black, that is exactly what he did.

So please explain to me how Mel coming back ALONE after marching off to war with Stannis under all the settings you described doesn't scream for Davos to want to know how she and she ALONE managed to get out???  Her coming back ALONE demanded an immediate explanation. Did she and the other ladies, Selyse and Shireen, flee after the battle looked lost?  Did Shireen and Selyse get lost?  Are they out there now needing help?  Did Selyse refuse to flee and stayed with Shireen to die with Stannis?  These are questions that should have been asked immediately. With a simple "what happened" or a more likely "what the hell happened". Hell they could have had Mel lie. Then fine. I can see Davos putting it down until further inquiry. But the sorrowful look was bullshit. I have nothing against D&D or the show. It's my favorite and the only show I watch consistently.  But D&D handled this whole situation poorly to hurry up the assassination and resurrection. It totally knocked Davos' character off track. Despite the following events that happened at castle black it took Davos realizing that Mel had found her a new TPTWP train to jump on for him to remember Shireen all for the sake of resurrecting a guy he barely knew. Shireen goes to the back burner. And even worse he turns buddy buddy with Mel during this time. So if Mel had said she's returning to Asshai rather than following Jon Davos never would have questioned her further huh???  That's straight garbage. D&D screwed up by sending Mel, Selyse, and Shireen with Stannis into war to get the burning and quickly wrap up Stannis' arc but they screwed up Davos' in the process by immediately sending Mel solo back to Castle Black with Davos being there. Now they're using classic tease and build up to "finally get it right" when what they chose to do got the character they had spent seasons building up, and who clearly plays a bigger part in the story than even Stannis, all wrong. I get it. They're pushing hard and fast for the endgame but what they did with Davos makes no sense. I'll keep watching because I love the show. This little screw up ain't gonna push me away. It's nowhere near the tragedy of what has been Dorne. But I'm still gonna call em on it. 

[lancerman]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

So please explain to me how Mel coming back ALONE after marching off to war with Stannis under all the settings you described doesn't scream for Davos to want to know how she and she ALONE managed to get out???  Her coming back ALONE demanded an immediate explanation. Did she and the other ladies, Selyse and Shireen, flee after the battle looked lost?  Did Shireen and Selyse get lost?  Are they out there now needing help?  Did Selyse refuse to flee and stayed with Shireen to die with Stannis?  These are questions that should have been asked immediately. With a simple "what happened" or a more likely "what the hell happened". Hell they could have had Mel lie. Then fine. I can see Davos putting it down until further inquiry. But the sorrowful look was bullshit. I have nothing against D&D or the show. It's my favorite and the only show I watch consistently.  But D&D handled this whole situation poorly to hurry up the assassination and resurrection. It totally knocked Davos' character off track. Despite the following events that happened at castle black it took Davos realizing that Mel had found her a new TPTWP train to jump on for him to remember Shireen all for the sake of resurrecting a guy he barely knew. Shireen goes to the back burner. And even worse he turns buddy buddy with Mel during this time. So if Mel had said she's returning to Asshai rather than following Jon Davos never would have questioned her further huh???  That's straight garbage. D&D screwed up by sending Mel, Selyse, and Shireen with Stannis into war to get the burning and quickly wrap up Stannis' arc but they screwed up Davos' in the process by immediately sending Mel solo back to Castle Black with Davos being there. Now they're using classic tease and build up to "finally get it right" when what they chose to do got the character they had spent seasons building up, and who clearly plays a bigger part in the story than even Stannis, all wrong. I get it. They're pushing hard and fast for the endgame but what they did with Davos makes no sense. I'll keep watching because I love the show. This little screw up ain't gonna push me away. It's nowhere near the tragedy of what has been Dorne. But I'm still gonna call em on it. 

Mel's just some girl. Stannis' family could take up a claim to throne. Killing his family would be a higher priority than capturing this women who most people have only vaguely heard of. She's literally the least valuable non combatant. Easiest to slip away. 

[Dragon in the North]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

So please explain to me how Mel coming back ALONE after marching off to war with Stannis under all the settings you described doesn't scream for Davos to want to know how she and she ALONE managed to get out???  Her coming back ALONE demanded an immediate explanation. Did she and the other ladies, Selyse and Shireen, flee after the battle looked lost?  Did Shireen and Selyse get lost?  Are they out there now needing help?  Did Selyse refuse to flee and stayed with Shireen to die with Stannis?  These are questions that should have been asked immediately. With a simple "what happened" or a more likely "what the hell happened". Hell they could have had Mel lie. Then fine. I can see Davos putting it down until further inquiry. But the sorrowful look was bullshit. I have nothing against D&D or the show. It's my favorite and the only show I watch consistently.  But D&D handled this whole situation poorly to hurry up the assassination and resurrection. It totally knocked Davos' character off track. Despite the following events that happened at castle black it took Davos realizing that Mel had found her a new TPTWP train to jump on for him to remember Shireen all for the sake of resurrecting a guy he barely knew. Shireen goes to the back burner. And even worse he turns buddy buddy with Mel during this time. So if Mel had said she's returning to Asshai rather than following Jon Davos never would have questioned her further huh???  That's straight garbage. D&D screwed up by sending Mel, Selyse, and Shireen with Stannis into war to get the burning and quickly wrap up Stannis' arc but they screwed up Davos' in the process by immediately sending Mel solo back to Castle Black with Davos being there. Now they're using classic tease and build up to "finally get it right" when what they chose to do got the character they had spent seasons building up, and who clearly plays a bigger part in the story than even Stannis, all wrong. I get it. They're pushing hard and fast for the endgame but what they did with Davos makes no sense. I'll keep watching because I love the show. This little screw up ain't gonna push me away. It's nowhere near the tragedy of what has been Dorne. But I'm still gonna call em on it. 

I don't understand why you're not getting this. Davos asked what happened the moment Mel returned and the sorrowful look confirmed the worst: Stannis and his family were dead. Again, after the shock of hearing this news and after events cooled off at Caste Black, he requested more details.

[Smoke317]

12 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I don't understand why you're not getting this. Davos asked what happened the moment Mel returned and the sorrowful look confirmed the worst: Stannis and his family were dead. Again, after the shock of hearing this news and after events cooled off at Caste Black, he requested more details.

I'm not getting it because it makes no sense. Why aren't you getting that?  A sorrowful look...  That's all Davos needed huh?  You believe that and I'll believe different. And we'll just agree to disagree. We're clearly never gonna change each other's minds. The fact that a thread has even been started on this topic proves I'm right though. . Seriously though, thanks for responding and participating in this spirited debate. ASoIaF and GoT are truly amazing. That's something I know we can both agree on. 

[Morky_Pep]

These people think that when their loved ones die, and someone comes to tell them they are dead, they are just gunna take the information in and thats the end of it. um WHAT ?!?! You are going to ask a shitload of questions. Because you are in denial. Because you need to know every explicit detail. Shireen died in battle ? How did you get away while she couldn't ? GIVE ME ANSWERS WOMAN. 

This is how real people act. Don't pretend like Davos's characterization makes any sense this season. 

[Smoke317]

24 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

These people think that when their loved ones die, and someone comes to tell them they are dead, they are just gunna take the information in and thats the end of it. um WHAT ?!?! You are going to ask a shitload of questions. Because you are in denial. Because you need to know every explicit detail. Shireen died in battle ? How did you get away while she couldn't ? GIVE ME ANSWERS WOMAN. 

This is how real people act. Don't pretend like Davos's characterization makes any sense this season. 

Thank you. Someone else with some common sense. They just want to write it off as normal because by criticizing the way D&D mishandled Davos' character they think we're just hating on the show. We're just being realistic while you all are in denial.  Most of us still love the show. I know I do. It's just that they screwed the Davos/Shireen/Mel story all up because they sent Mel with Stannis then tried to rush her back to resurrect Jon. That would have worked but not with Davos being at Castle black. Now the're trying to "slowly" resurrect Davos' character because they definitely assassinated it to move the story along...

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, Morky_Pep said:

These people think that when their loved ones die, and someone comes to tell them they are dead, they are just gunna take the information in and thats the end of it. um WHAT ?!?! You are going to ask a shitload of questions. Because you are in denial. Because you need to know every explicit detail. Shireen died in battle ? How did you get away while she couldn't ? GIVE ME ANSWERS WOMAN. 

This is how real people act. Don't pretend like Davos's characterization makes any sense this season. 

No, people react to death very differently. Some get angry, some get depressed, some ask a million questions as to how this could have happened. Everybody is different. I had no problem with the way Davos responded to the tragedy. If I discovered that a loved one had just died, I would have been in a state of shock as well.

[Dragon in the North]

2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

 Seriously though, thanks for responding and participating in this spirited debate. ASoIaF and GoT are truly amazing. That's something I know we can both agree on. 

Yes, I can certainly agree to that.

[Jack Bauer 24]

2 hours ago, Morky_Pep said:

These people think that when their loved ones die, and someone comes to tell them they are dead, they are just gunna take the information in and thats the end of it. um WHAT ?!?! You are going to ask a shitload of questions. Because you are in denial. Because you need to know every explicit detail. Shireen died in battle ? How did you get away while she couldn't ? GIVE ME ANSWERS WOMAN. 

This is how real people act. Don't pretend like Davos's characterization makes any sense this season. 

Jon was just murdered and brought back to life by magic. How often does someone see that happen. Is there a reason why you aren't understanding this?

[Smoke317]

24 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Jon was just murdered and brought back to life by magic. How often does someone see that happen. Is there a reason why you aren't understanding this?

Jon was murdered AFTER Mel came back to Castle Black. AFTER. Not DURING her return. All of my posts state that Davos should have IMMEDIATELY questioned her about what happened as soon as she came back from the battle all ALONE. If you can't see the logic in wanting to know why ONLY she returned then we're wasting time here. I understand clearly what you're saying but you're glossing over the FACTS of what I'm saying. Those facts should have led to IMMEDIATE questions being asked by Davos. Especially knowing his closeness to both Shireen and Stannis. This isn't Jon who only knew Stannis for say a month.  Sure Jon may be satisfied with a sorrowful look as an all encompassing explanation that Stannis and all his family and men were slaughtered yet somehow Mel alone makes it out. But not Davos. That makes no sense at all. Even more so with Davos knowing Mel's shady character.  He'd want to know what the hell happened and a sorrowful all encompassing look from what clearly looks like a deserter would not suffice.  And we all would be in a state of shock if a loved one just died. But under these shady conditions (a person you've never trusted bringing you this information and they were the last ones with this loved one) you'd want an explanation. Not just to hear "your loved one is dead". Hell we didn't even get that. This scenario is where's my niece and this shady untrustful person just gives you a sad look...  But to each his/her own. But if I'm your loved one and I leave with a shady person and said shady person returns alone, please immediately ask what happened to me. Don't wait until after the next door neighbor gets killed and you request this same shady person to resurrect the neighbor. Please take the shady person and find me so I can be resurrected. Since I'm your loved one. Lol. 

[Jack Bauer 24]

17 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Jon was murdered AFTER Mel came back to Castle Black. AFTER. Not DURING her return. All of my posts state that Davos should have IMMEDIATELY questioned her about what happened as soon as she came back from the battle all ALONE. If you can't see the logic in wanting to know why ONLY she returned then we're wasting time here. I understand clearly what you're saying but you're glossing over the FACTS of what I'm saying. Those facts should have led to IMMEDIATE questions being asked by Davos. Especially knowing his closeness to both Shireen and Stannis. This isn't Jon who only knew Stannis for say a month.  Sure Jon may be satisfied with a sorrowful look as an all encompassing explanation that Stannis and all his family and men were slaughtered yet somehow Mel alone makes it out. But not Davos. That makes no sense at all. Even more so with Davos knowing Mel's shady character.  He'd want to know what the hell happened and a sorrowful all encompassing look from what clearly looks like a deserter would not suffice.  And we all would be in a state of shock if a loved one just died. But under these shady conditions (a person you've never trusted bringing you this information and they were the last ones with this loved one) you'd want an explanation. Not just to hear "your loved one is dead". Hell we didn't even get that. This scenario is where's my niece and this shady untrustful person just gives you a sad look...  But to each his/her own. But if I'm your loved one and I leave with a shady person and said shady person returns alone, please immediately ask what happened to me. Don't wait until after the next door neighbor gets killed and you request this same shady person to resurrect the neighbor. Please take the shady person and find me so I can be resurrected. Since I'm your loved one. Lol. 

Davos knows she has some kind of powers or special abilities even before she brought Jon back, so why would it be so surprising that she made it out alive? Is there a reason why you're not understanding something so basic?

[Rhollo]

Davos simply wasn't a character for the first 2-3 episodes, he was an onscreen director telling the other characters what they have to do to move the plot along:

"Random loyal guys, in this room please"

"Edd, you go get the wildlings"

"Thorne, stay outside the loyalists room for a few more hours."

"Mel, time to make Jon's resurrection happen"

 

He was basically the NPC a gamemaster in a RPG often utilizes to shove his players into the quest he prepared.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

On 16/05/2016 at 1:52 AM, Dragon in the North said:

Learning of Stannis's defeat would have been pretty shocking to Davos and he would have taken time to process. After things quieted down and he accepted what happened, he was ready for the details.

NOOOO. What are you doing, applying a reasonable interpretation to this???