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Aegon TWOW

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On 10/20/2016 at 8:33 PM, shadows and dust said:

I could see Aegon "winning" and finishing the series alive and on the IT. Maybe it's not the most likely scenario but it's one to consider.

I see 3 heads of the dragon and I see 3 central conflicts in the book. Jon will have his battle to defeat the night. Danny will have her battle to end slavery and remake Slavers' Bay. Aegon will have his battle for the Iron Throne.

If we see TWOW as setting up the final confrontations, then the book could end by setting up: Jon v The Others, Danny v Volantis, Aegon v Euron*.

TWOW, then would just need to eliminate the other lines or merge them into those 3 battles. This also handles the timeline issue for Danny getting back to Westeros in time for the book to end by ADOS. If Aegon's success makes Danny feel the need to conquer Westeros is less, she can focus on her issues with slavery and go about not being such a tedious read.

 

 

*we joke that Aegon and Euron were kind of late editions to the books to be such central characters. it'd be fitting for them to fight each other. Even more fitting because they'd be late-adds fighting for the original throne, and the originals are fighting for "thrones" added later in the book.

The trouble is, in my humble opinion, that whereas Euron is kind of set of an "Icarus Flight" sort of situation (i.e. he will try to burn so bright that he will get burnt metaphorically), Aegon is flat as a pancake, so far in the books.   "The perfect prince" raises a lot of flags with me.  He is young, untested and massively cocky.  I am yet to see how he puts to use his supposed training as a commoner.  Granted, it could be me not gelling with this character.  Some late comers get my attention but, unless TWOW give us tons on him and how he thinks, feels, etc I am utterly unable to relate to him, even as a minor character.  If he ended up as one of the main 3, definitely burn the books but hey that is just me!  If I met him in real life I would not hate him, however as a literary character is more underdeveloped than the odd servant in an Northern house, say, like a wet nurse with the Umbers or something.  To me it would be hugely anticlimatic to set up this huge Lannister -v- Starks -v- Targaryens to end up (even if genuine) with a Targ we got like 5 paragraphs on period.  If what George is trying to do is making him a huge POV in the last book, say, to me that would be too little too late too.  Plus the guy is not per se charismatic.  He is good at everything but there are no hints at his soul at all... no villain, no hero, no nothing...  I wouldn't hate him as a person at all but I dislike him as a character due to how very underdeveloped he is with only two books to go :)

Euron is a horrible human being but yes, he is a later addition and much more fleshed out and he is dabbling in very dark magic and some even think he is trying to make himself a god.  He is a later addition that one can love to hate.  If Aegon or FAegon were to be his antagonist lot what are we to do with the guys we had from before like Jon, and Bran and his powers and Sam and Tyrion with their brains, Brienne with her sword lol what can Aegon bring to the story???  Should they all just decide to help Aegon the Good or something?  Sorry if my hatred for his literary characterisation offends anyone.  It was not my intention to offend people who like him just my two cents.

Frankly in the Tyrion chapters with him in it the only character I enjoyed was Lemore lol

BTW no disrespect intended to you or anyone who likes this character just my opinion....

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 1/31/2018 at 11:13 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The big question, I think, is his true identity, and whether his claimed identity is widely accepted, and even more importantly, how does he fit into the overall plot of the George's tale. 

We can assume from what we have read so far, and from the leaked 1993 letter from the George to his publisher, that ASOIAF consists of three main conflicts: the Stark-Lannister struggle, the return of The Targaryen, and the struggle with the Others. 

The first conflict was at the heart of the War of the Five Kings. House Stark were the protagonists, and House Lannister were the antagonists, but the lines were blurred by several characters, notably Sansa, at least until the Ned lost his head, and Tyrion, and more recently Jaime after he recued Brienne at Harrenhal. At the end of Storm, which appears to mark the end of the first act of the trilogy that the George originally intended to write but grew in the telling, Petyr Baelish was revealed to be the big bad in the first main conflict. 

The George has strongly suggested that the second conflict will comprise a Second Dance of the Dragons, and that will most likely correspond to the return of The Targaryen. 

And he has suggested that the third conflict will culminate in the prophesied War for the Dawn mentioned by Aemon near the end of Storm. 

Going back to the second main conflict-- the return of The Targaryen and the Second Dance of the Dragons--Daenerys is clearly the protagonist (unless, perhaps, it's Jon). But she needs an antagonist, and it won't be a dance of dragons unless she fights another Targaryen. So, unless it turns out to be a struggle between Daenerys and Jon, Aegon will be the antagonist. But, red or black, a dragon is still a dragon. Unless you think Aegon is the real deal and destined to rule the Seven Kingdoms, he is likely the mummer's dragon--the one that Daenerys saw in the House of the Undying Ones, and the one that the storyteller has introduced for the protagonist to fight. And in a role similar to that of Petyr in the first main conflict, I expect Illyrio and Varys to be revealed as the big bad in the second main conflict. 

I could go with this and this suggests to me, if you are right, that Aegon is a plot device.  As for Varys and Illyrio my tinfoil is that Varys was for Dany all the way but tricked Illyrio into a plan B but that he will die tragically not being believed by Dany (who I believed he backed all the way lol) but of course I did say tinfoil ;)  As long as it is not Aegon on the IT, happy with Old Nanna or anyone! lol :)

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He will either go to Old Town or Riverlands but at the end he will end up in the Wall before taking KL because the news of Others attacking will arrive to south of the Neck. 

I say either Allyria Dayne ((wishful thinking of mine)) or Sansa but never Arianne - there is no gain for Aegon like there was no gain for Viserys too. 

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I think he is just another red herring, to be honest.   I don't think he will factor much into the final events, or we would have seen him on the show.  While some want to think that the show has totally gone off the rails, I think in the end we will find that the main ideas and overall resolution are going to be much the same, simply streamlined.  

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My take on Aegon and the Faith Militant is that he needs to prove himself before they decide to back him. Regardless of how both Queen's trials go, as it stands, Aegon's faction is just the grandson of a psyco path, an exiled lord, and an army of cut throat's from Essos who are bringing war to places like the Stormlands that weren't that affected by the previous wars. Advancing on King's Landing would be a bad move. If Stannis couldn't take that city, I don't know who can. The King's Landingers, of all people, remember the Mad Kind's crazyness. A siege would just give them something to unite against. Plus, the High Sparrow isn't going to get behind foreign mercenaries.

If they can save Oldtown from Euron's ironborn, then the Swords and Stars will follow them. And, even with Margery in King's Landing, most Reach Lords will have no choice but to support Aegon, because he's their savior. Maybe they can advance on the West afterwords and take Casterly Rock.

Euron doesn't need to fall though. He might escape. He'll loose more men then he was willing. Not just the kind of men he left to hold the Shields that he didn't care about, along with most of the thralls he would be trying to carry off. The Crow's Eye won't be smiling anymore. But the cut throats who rallied behind him, like Lucas Codd and the Red Oarsmen, will be with him. Almost all of the mutes and monsters he brought over from Essos too. Speaking of them, I think there's more, waiting for him. The world is full of scum who would flock to a guy like him. Outlaws from the Stepstones, Sellsails from the Free Cities, Corsairs from the Basilisk Isles, and maybe even pirates from Dagger Lake and Rhoyne. I predict he'll rendezvous with them en route to King's Landing, and with this fleet, the city is his for the taking. 

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On 1/31/2018 at 11:13 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The big question, I think, is his true identity, and whether his claimed identity is widely accepted, and even more importantly, how does he fit into the overall plot of the George's tale. 

We can assume from what we have read so far, and from the leaked 1993 letter from the George to his publisher, that ASOIAF consists of three main conflicts: the Stark-Lannister struggle, the return of The Targaryen, and the struggle with the Others. 

The first conflict was at the heart of the War of the Five Kings. House Stark were the protagonists, and House Lannister were the antagonists, but the lines were blurred by several characters, notably Sansa, at least until the Ned lost his head, and Tyrion, and more recently Jaime after he recued Brienne at Harrenhal. At the end of Storm, which appears to mark the end of the first act of the trilogy that the George originally intended to write but grew in the telling, Petyr Baelish was revealed to be the big bad in the first main conflict. 

The George has strongly suggested that the second conflict will comprise a Second Dance of the Dragons, and that will most likely correspond to the return of The Targaryen. 

And he has suggested that the third conflict will culminate in the prophesied War for the Dawn mentioned by Aemon near the end of Storm. 

Going back to the second main conflict-- the return of The Targaryen and the Second Dance of the Dragons--Daenerys is clearly the protagonist (unless, perhaps, it's Jon). But she needs an antagonist, and it won't be a dance of dragons unless she fights another Targaryen. So, unless it turns out to be a struggle between Daenerys and Jon, Aegon will be the antagonist. But, red or black, a dragon is still a dragon. Unless you think Aegon is the real deal and destined to rule the Seven Kingdoms, he is likely the mummer's dragon--the one that Daenerys saw in the House of the Undying Ones, and the one that the storyteller has introduced for the protagonist to fight. And in a role similar to that of Petyr in the first main conflict, I expect Illyrio and Varys to be revealed as the big bad in the second main conflict. 

I like your analysis actually.  However, although I also think he is fake (but neither himself or JC know it) I don't think that matters ultimately that much for "power resides where people believe it resides..." but if George was going to go for an untested player, we had Robb (who did well in many ways but made huge mistakes too and was more developed than this one.  Not saying that young players will not get a chance.  Hell Dany was very young and has made mistakes but yes I think everything points to him being a plot device to give more major characters "something to fight."  He will have a role though, I think, apart from getting the IT for a bit, he may force some major characters into a line of action, say, that the plot wouldn't allow otherwise (without his input) or something of that ilk, just as a poster above mentioned Oberyn re Tryion...

I totally agree that in the Targaryen plot Varys and Illyrio both are antagonists but I am convinced that Varys is playing Illyrio for his ego and ultimately his money and support but that they both back different "dragons."  But as I am always fond of saying... we shall see...

Now the posts on possible military strategy are great.  I just don't feel I know enough about that sort of thing to make meaningful comments lol  sorry.

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