The North storyline is worse then Dorne

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

It is not inconsistent at all.  She was clearly in  a desperate situation when she wrote the letter.

It's consistent with Sansa being dumb as a box of crayons in the show.  It never occurs to her that she might be able to use the Vale troops before she gives LF the brush off and tells him to fuck off, he's an idiot or an enemy and 2 episodes later, it turns out, oops, she's got to send a fucking groveling letter to him so he can save her.

[Ser Quork]

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

It is not inconsistent at all.  She was clearly in  a desperate situation when she wrote the letter.

What desperate situation was that that can wait for Harry Potter's owl  a raven to find LF.

What she should be doing is telling her brother and Davos about the army waiting at Moat Cailin (or has it returned to the Vale?).  As usual, the show just fabricates some nonsense.

[Ser Gareth]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

It's consistent with Sansa being dumb as a box of crayons in the show.  It never occurs to her that she might be able to use the Vale troops before she gives LF the brush off and tells him to fuck off, he's an idiot or an enemy and 2 episodes later, it turns out, oops, she's got to send a fucking groveling letter to him so he can save her.

No need to add the addendum of "in the show".  She's as dumb as a box of crayons in the books as well.  I think Sansa is one of the few characters the show has nailed pretty well.  Sansa is less selfish in the show than the books but that may simply be because we are further down her arc in the show.

The show has potentially ruined one theory of mine though.  I always thought Sansa would end up what she despised and become a clone of Cersei.

[El Guapo]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's consistent with Sansa being dumb as a box of crayons in the show.  It never occurs to her that she might be able to use the Vale troops before she gives LF the brush off and tells him to fuck off, he's an idiot or an enemy and 2 episodes later, it turns out, oops, she's got to send a fucking groveling letter to him so he can save her.

The only way she can use the Vale troops is through LF which she didn't want to do. She didn't want his help. She thought she and Jon could rally the other Northern houses for an army. She was wrong  She is desperate for more troops so she swallows her pride and writes LF for an assistance.  Not very complicated.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

The only way she can use the Vale troops is through LF which she didn't want to do. She didn't want his help. She thought she and Jon could rally the other Northern houses for an army. She was wrong  She is desperate for more troops so she swallows her pride and writes LF for an assistance.  Not very complicated.

Indeed. Because she is fucking stupid.

What kind of moron turns down a huge, well rested army on the hope that whatever is left of the North's manpower will be enough to oust the Boltons from Winterfell? Especially since she ALREADY KNOWS they are Stark supporters, apparently more Stark supporters in the Vale than in the North.   It's insanity what she did.  

It occurred for one reason and one reason only: the show wanted a scene where Sansa tells LF to fuck off.  But they are not willing to deal with fall out from that, because they still intend for LF to save the say.  The result is Sansa, per usual, looked brutally stupid and now dishonest to boot.

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

No need to add the addendum of "in the show".  She's as dumb as a box of crayons in the books as well.  I think Sansa is one of the few characters the show has nailed pretty well.  Sansa is less selfish in the show than the books but that may simply be because we are further down her arc in the show.

The show has potentially ruined one theory of mine though.  I always thought Sansa would end up what she despised and become a clone of Cersei.

LOL.  Sansa is, let's say, not one of my favorite characters and while Book Sansa has many flaws including seeing what she wants to see and believing what is convenient for her...she's not so dumb as to (1) marry her family's blood enemy for 'revenge' with no idea what that means, or (2) tell a huge army of natural Stark supporters 'no thanks' I don't need you so she can get a personal high out of telling LF to fuck off.

Until last year I thought Show Sansa was actually preferable to book Sansa, but once she got to Winterfell and lost her mind and her brain, eh, she sucks and cannot be redeemed in the show.

[El Guapo]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Indeed. Because she is fucking stupid.

What kind of moron turns down a huge, well rested army on the hope that whatever is left of the North's manpower will be enough to oust the Boltons from Winterfell? Especially since she ALREADY KNOWS they are Stark supporters, apparently more Stark supporters in the Vale than in the North.   It's insanity what she did.  

It occurred for one reason and one reason only: the show wanted a scene where Sansa tells LF to fuck off.  But they are not willing to deal with fall out from that, because they still intend for LF to save the say.  The result is Sansa, per usual, looked brutally stupid and now dishonest to boot.

You ranters crack me up.  Page after page , day after day, post after post of how stupid Sansa was to be trusting Littlefinger and now when she finally tells him to fuck off and that she wants to do things on her own she is stupid for not accepting Littlefinger;'s "help".  It is hilarious actually. 

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You ranters crack me up.  Page after page , day after day, post after post of how stupid Sansa was to be trusting Littlefinger and now when she finally tells him to fuck off and that she wants to do things on her own she is stupid for not accepting Littlefinger;'s "help".  It is hilarious actually. 

Um, she spent time in the Vale, she knows the Vale Lords are Stark supporters, it's not about LF, it's about getting an army.  The smart thing to do would have been to take the Vale army and then presumably after they won, denounce him to Royce and have him hung.  This is what a reasonably intelligent person would do.  It's not about trusting LF, LMAO, it's about finally getting something of value out of him for once.

But she fucked that up and now has to beg and will probably promise him some BS in return for his help, because she is dumb as dirt.

And, I think most rants were about how unbelievably stupid it was to marry Ramsay, and how unbelivably stupid LF's alleged plan is for all parties involved, and less about her trusting him since she doesn't really trust him in the show.  If your'e going to criticize ranters, at least try and be accurate as to what the rants are about.

ETA, but her telling him to fuck off, is meaningless.  It was a one-off fast food high, not sustainable, since she will be back in his debt within another episode.  So, she empowers herself right out of an army that will get a lot of her actual allies and probably her brother killed.

Ya know, or she could have just had Brienne kill him right there on the spot and then she would get the Vale army and LF would be dead.

So, she chooses the absolute worst set of actions to take, because she is dumb.

[El Guapo]

12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Um, she spent time in the Vale, she knows the Vale Lords are Stark supporters, it's not about LF, it's about getting an army.  The smart thing to do would have been to take the Vale army and then presumably after they won, denounce him to Royce and have him hung.  This is what a reasonably intelligent person would do.  It's not about trusting LF, LMAO, it's about finally getting something of value out of him for once.

But she fucked that up and now has to beg and will probably promise him some BS in return for his help, because she is dumb as dirt.

And, I think most rants were about how unbelievably stupid it was to marry Ramsay, and how unbelivably stupid LF's alleged plan is for all parties involved, and less about her trusting him since she doesn't really trust him in the show.  If your'e going to criticize ranters, at least try and be accurate as to what the rants are about.

ETA, but her telling him to fuck off, is meaningless.  It was a one-off fast food high, not sustainable, since she will be back in his debt within another episode.  So, she empowers herself right out of an army that will get a lot of her actual allies and probably her brother killed.

Ya know, or she could have just had Brienne kill him right there on the spot and then she would get the Vale army and LF would be dead.

So, she chooses the absolute worst set of actions to take, because she is dumb.

The show has made it abundantly clear that Robyn Arryn is nothing but Littlefinger's puppet at this point. He does whatever Littlefinger tells him to do because he thinks Uncle Petyr is like the greatest thing ever. So no, killing Littlefinger would  not have gotten her the Vale army. If anything she would have pissed of her cousin who most likely would have just marched home.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

The show has made it abundantly clear that Robyn Arryn is nothing but Littlefinger's puppet at this point. He does whatever Littlefinger tells him to do because he thinks Uncle Petyr is like the greatest thing ever. So no, killing Littlefinger would  not have gotten her the Vale army. If anything she would have pissed of her cousin who most likely would have just marched home.

LF would be dead.  He wouldn't be able to tell him anything.  Lord Royce would be in charge and Robyn is very easy to manipulate, they could tell him LF fell off his horse, how's he going to know the difference?.  But, whatever, it's not important, LF is going to ride to Sansa's defense, she will be in his debt again, awesome character growth.  LMAO.

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, Rubicante said:

Wait a second...why did Sansa send Brienne to Riverrun to deliver a letter in person to the Blackfish out of fear of Ramsay "intercepting a raven", but then she is okay with sending a letter via raven to Littlefinger (?) when they are actually now closer to Winterfell?  Shouldn't she still be worried about Ramsay shooting down a raven?

^this

AND

How the hell does she knwos which raven to pick, and how the hell does that raven know to fly to LF? Do all ravens have a LF-radar or something? Moat Cailin has no maester and no rookery, since it's not permanently occupied. And why the heck would a maester have ravens for the Vale with him when Sansa left the Vale out and Jon Snow is only thinking of Northern allies. But hey, you can GET AROUND Moat Cailin (hten why the heck did anyone build it?), so I guess ravens must have a LF-radar to fly straight to him, wherever he is. It's like some amateuristic fanfic of low quality that doesn't deal with what at that moment is an inconveniences...

[Consigliere]

7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

How the hell does she knwos which raven to pick, and how the hell does that raven know to fly to LF? Do all ravens have a LF-radar or something? Moat Cailin has no maester and no rookery, since it's not permanently occupied. And why the heck would a maester have ravens for the Vale with him when Sansa left the Vale out and Jon Snow is only thinking of Northern allies. But hey, you can GET AROUND Moat Cailin (hten why the heck did anyone build it?), so I guess ravens must have a LF-radar to fly straight to him, wherever he is.

Birds of a feather flock together. LF's personal sigil is a mockingbird. Makes perfect sense.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

49 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

In seasons 1 to 3.  Not this late in the TV series and sadly not this late in the novels either.  The "Northern" Conspiracy is by far the biggest over rated thing that came out of ADWD and possibly the entire ASOIAF series.  That's even if there is one.  Right now it's just fan speculation.

Also GRRM may not have an ending to it himself.  If that's the case then the show wouldn't have been able to put it in.

I'm not talking about the "Northern Conspiracy"; I'm not even sure if that's a thing. I'm only talking about the storyline that was in ADWD. They would not have been able to do that in seasons 1, 2 or 3. It should have happened last season and into the beginning of this season.

The show had all the elements to make a superb story with just a few more of the book elements, but they chose to disregard everything except for Ramsay raping his bride. What we're seeing now is the result of that decision and it's bad.

 

 

[Ser Gareth]

3 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

I'm not talking about the "Northern Conspiracy"; I'm not even sure if that's a thing. I'm only talking about the storyline that was in ADWD. They would not have been able to do that in seasons 1, 2 or 3. It should have happened last season and into the beginning of this season.

The show had all the elements to make a superb story with just a few more of the book elements, but they chose to disregard everything except for Ramsay raping his bride. What we're seeing now is the result of that decision and it's bad.

 

 

They can't feature a lot of the plots from ADWD because they weren't finished.  So even if they had started them they'd have had to come up with their own ending and tried to tie it in neatly with the main plot ending.

And I disagree with you that it's bad.  I first read AGOT in 1998.  I am just relieved I am finally going to get some closure on the series and find out how it ends.  I've wasted far too much of my life already reading and re-reading a series of books that will never be completed.  If the show IS bad it's because the author failed everyone by not giving the show the material required in the books.

[Maid So Fair]

28 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

The show has made it abundantly clear that Robyn Arryn is nothing but Littlefinger's puppet at this point. He does whatever Littlefinger tells him to do because he thinks Uncle Petyr is like the greatest thing ever. So no, killing Littlefinger would  not have gotten her the Vale army. If anything she would have pissed of her cousin who most likely would have just marched home.

We got ambushed by the Boltons and alas, poor  Uncle Petyr died. How sad. Let's go avenge him! The Vale army has just marched hundreds of miles to ostensibly help out Sansa. It's not like they're going to just turn back lol

[Ser Quork]

28 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

They can't feature a lot of the plots from ADWD because they weren't finished.  So even if they had started them they'd have had to come up with their own ending and tried to tie it in neatly with the main plot ending.

And I disagree with you that it's bad.  I first read AGOT in 1998.  I am just relieved I am finally going to get some closure on the series and find out how it ends.  I've wasted far too much of my life already reading and re-reading a series of books that will never be completed.  If the show IS bad it's because the author failed everyone by not giving the show the material required in the books.

You'll find out D&D's story and their ending.  If that gives you "closure", good for you.  What you won't be getting is GRRM's ending from the show because the show is devoid of narrative flow and meaning because it chose to deviate from the narrative of the books.. 

27 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

We got ambushed by the Boltons and alas, poor  Uncle Petyr died. How sad. Let's go avenge him! The Vale army has just marched hundreds of miles to ostensibly help out Sansa. It's not like they're going to just turn back lol

Exactly so.  If only 'Sandra' were a "player" of the game.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

22 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

They can't feature a lot of the plots from ADWD because they weren't finished.  So even if they had started them they'd have had to come up with their own ending and tried to tie it in neatly with the main plot ending.

And I disagree with you that it's bad.  I first read AGOT in 1998.  I am just relieved I am finally going to get some closure on the series and find out how it ends.  I've wasted far too much of my life already reading and re-reading a series of books that will never be completed.  If the show IS bad it's because the author failed everyone by not giving the show the material required in the books.

What a bizarre excuse.

It's okay to emasculate the North storyline from the show because it's not finished? Wut? Maybe they should have left Jon Snow out of the story because his plot isn't finished in the books? And Arya? Jaime? Cersei? Tyrion? Etc etc etc.

Are they not allowed to ask the author of the books how the ADWD plots will be finished? And then use that info?

And the author failed everyone by not giving the show the material? Wut (again)? My complaint is that the show didn't use the material that was in the books.

Bizarre.

 

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

What a bizarre excuse.

It's okay to emasculate the North storyline from the show because it's not finished? Wut? Maybe they should have left Jon Snow out of the story because his plot isn't finished in the books? And Arya? Jaime? Cersei? Tyrion? Etc etc etc.

Are they not allowed to ask the author of the books how the ADWD plots will be finished? And then use that info?

And the author failed everyone by not giving the show the material? Wut (again)? My complaint is that the show didn't use the material that was in the books.

Bizarre.

 

It's not that it's not finished.  It's that GRRM probably doesn't know how it will play out either.

I think the show would have been a far more faithful adaptation had the story actually been finished.  The show has been forced to go its own way because of:

Lack of source material.

The source material in AFFC & ADWD wasn't strong enough for the series to continue with just that source material.

[Ser Gareth]

6 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

You'll find out D&D's story and their ending.  If that gives you "closure", good for you.  What you won't be getting is GRRM's ending from the show because the show is devoid of narrative flow and meaning because it chose to deviate from the narrative of the books.. 

Exactly so.  If only 'Sandra' were a "player" of the game.

Their ending will tie up with GRRM's.  And it is likely the only ending we'll get.  So enjoy it.  Or don't.  And if you hate the show then don't watch the show.  And if some bizarre reason you hate the show but feel compelled to watch the show then don't waste your life by trying to constantly convince others who don't mind the show to hate it.

[El Guapo]

40 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

We got ambushed by the Boltons and alas, poor  Uncle Petyr died. How sad. Let's go avenge him! The Vale army has just marched hundreds of miles to ostensibly help out Sansa. It's not like they're going to just turn back lol

Well sure she could try that lie and may be Robyn would buy it. who knows. lol