polishgenius Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The Daily Mail are a bit like Fox News, but with less integrity, honesty and dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, DjourouLoveMe? said: The Daily Mail are a bit like Fox News, but with less integrity, honesty and dignity. Thanks. That's what I recalled. I look for confirmation elsewhere before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Stirring speech delivered by Utah Lt. Gov Spencer Cox at Memorial Vigil... https://www.ksl.com/?sid=40209267&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 6 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The Daily Mail is not a reliable UK newsource, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, felice said: That is so damn catchy. I'm shocked I haven't seen that before haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 former NYPD officer finds it implausible there was only one shooter http://opinion.injo.com/2016/06/256993-im-former-nypd-heres-why-i-suspect-there-was-more-than-one-shooter-in-orlando/ Quote A Sig Sauer MCX, fires a 5.56mm NATO round, or its .223 caliber civilian variant. Magazines typically hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on your preference. If ballistics determines this to be the primary weapon used in the attack, that would imply a minimum of four to five reloads without any patrons attempting to stop the shooter. But again, that would also imply a nearly 100 percent accuracy rate. Something unheard of even for those aforementioned world class shooters.... ....Now, assuming the terrorist’s marksmanship and tactical ability rivaled that of the typical NYC police officer shooting under stress, that would suggest that he would have been carrying at least 500 rounds of ammunition, or 20 to 25 magazines of minimum. This in addition to a rifle and handgun. And it would also assume that he was able to carry all of that gear dressed in a way that would not have raised suspicion on a hot June evening/early morning in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, Commodore said: former NYPD officer finds it implausible there was only one shooter http://opinion.injo.com/2016/06/256993-im-former-nypd-heres-why-i-suspect-there-was-more-than-one-shooter-in-orlando/ Math? If the magazine held 30 rounds, and he killed 49 people, then assuming a 100% accuracy rate, he would have needed to reload... once. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, people!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Commodore said: former NYPD officer finds it implausible there was only one shooter http://opinion.injo.com/2016/06/256993-im-former-nypd-heres-why-i-suspect-there-was-more-than-one-shooter-in-orlando/ I've read exactly nothing about the actual attack itself...try to avoid that shit...but the obvious answer to me is that he could have reloaded 10 or more times. Chaotic environment, club lighting, furniture and bodies everywhere, complete confusion, I can easily see a scenario where people aren't even sure where he is a lot of the time, just trying to hide and/or save someone. Additionally, relatively small area, densely packed people, you're bound to get a fair amount of duplication, a la Napoleonic/Civil/WWI casualties when troops stood similarly congregated under fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 25 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said: Math? If the magazine held 30 rounds, and he killed 49 people, then assuming a 100% accuracy rate, he would have needed to reload... once. 100% accuracy rate? fwiw I don't agree with his theory, at some point these likely were point blank execution style killings just thought it was an interesting read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Just now, Commodore said: 100% accuracy rate? fwiw I don't agree with his theory, at some point these likely were point blank execution style killings just thought it was an interesting read I only assumed a 100% accuracy rate because that's what the author, in the part of the article you quoted, suggested the accuracy rate would have to be close to, upon which he concluded he would have had to have reloaded "four or five" times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 44 minutes ago, Commodore said: former NYPD officer finds it implausible there was only one shooter http://opinion.injo.com/2016/06/256993-im-former-nypd-heres-why-i-suspect-there-was-more-than-one-shooter-in-orlando/ He was in an enclosed, tightly packed space. Trained shooters are usually shooting at targets hundreds of yards away. also, there were hundreds o witnesses, and probably video footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said: I only assumed a 100% accuracy rate because that's what the author, in the part of the article you quoted, suggested the accuracy rate would have to be close to, upon which he concluded he would have had to have reloaded "four or five" times. To be fair, that's also assuming 100% fatality rate, not just accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, James Arryn said: To be fair, that's also assuming 100% fatality rate, not just accuracy. Right. And that certainly just wasn't the case. I actually forgot to add in the wounded, of which at last report I think there was 53. So that is supposed to be a total of 103 people shot. Assuming 100% accuracy rate, and not necessarily 100% fatality rate, at 20-30 rounds per magazine, that is definitely 4-5 reloads, in which case, I am 98% certain that I'm an idiot. So whoops. Maybe jet fuel can melt steel beams after all. Is it 5:00 yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said: Right. And that certainly just wasn't the case. I actually forgot to add in the wounded, of which at last report I think there was 53. So that is supposed to be a total of 103 people shot. Assuming 100% accuracy rate, and not necessarily 100% fatality rate, at 20-30 rounds per magazine, that is definitely 4-5 reloads, in which case, I am 98% certain that I'm an idiot. So whoops. Maybe jet fuel can melt steel beams after all. Is it 5:00 yet? 102, technically speaking if you exclude the shooter. Also, you have to factor in that a single bullet could hit multiple people. When you consider the rate of fire, the size of the magazine, the density of the club and that most of the shooting took place in a couple minute window, it's realistic to think that he did this on his own. Plus he has training on how to use a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: 102, technically speaking if you exclude the shooter. Also, you have to factor in that a single bullet could hit multiple people. When you consider the rate of fire, the size of the magazine, the density of the club and that most of the shooting took place in a couple minute window, it's realistic to think that he did this on his own. Plus he has training on how to use a firearm. I don't doubt that this one guy did the entire thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I was also going to raise the point that the velocity of a 223 means it can likely penetrate multiple victims in a tightly enclosed environment. I do know that it is designed to tumble when it hits its target (which would reduce over penetration somewhat), but at 3000 feet per second it is travelling at around 3 times the velocity of a handgun round, so without doing some extra research on the topic I, would venture a guess that a single round could in fact have injured multiple people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 54 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said: I don't doubt that this one guy did the entire thing. I know. I just wanted to bring up a few more things to consider. It's really silly Imo to argue that one person couldn't do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 That former NYPD officer is a jackass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 So out of respect for the people who lost their lives could we maybe take the conspiracy bullshit to a different thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerHaHa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Quote I was also going to raise the point that the velocity of a 223 means it can likely penetrate multiple victims in a tightly enclosed environment. I do know that it is designed to tumble when it hits its target (which would reduce over penetration somewhat), but at 3000 feet per second it is travelling at around 3 times the velocity of a handgun round, so without doing some extra research on the topic I, would venture a guess that a single round could in fact have injured multiple people. This depends on many, many factors. First of all, the Sig MCX carbine due to barrel length typically spits rounds out at less than 2700fps, more like mach 2.3 or so, not mach3. Also, the higher velocity at close range with most types of civilian types of 223/556 ammo means the bullet is more likely to break up inside a target, not more likely to stay together and over penetrate. There are many things affecting this - The length of the barrel which affects velocity, the type of bullet construction, the bullet weight, the twist rate of the barrel which affects to rotation/rpm of that bullet and bullet type/weight. Bullets regardless of their designed purpose also have a huge random effect regardless of this when they strike human and other targets/barriers. Gunshots are anything BUT an exercise completely governed by exact science. With the Sig MCX carbine used in this shooting, using typical 55 gr bullets most civilians shoot, with the high velocity due to the closed space meaning short range, I'd expect quite a bit of bullet fragmentation in the people shot, which would mean less over-penetration. 62gr steel core/penetrator equipped bullets, not as much, but still, I doubt many victims were hit as secondary recipients of bullets. I only bring this technical crap up in order to respect the victims by discrediting any ridiculous conspiracy theories about multiple shooters. And it's pretty easy for an even semi or barely trained rifle shooter in such an environment to shoot as many as he did, and this guy did have some reasonable amount of training with both pistols and rifles due to the nature of his job. Whitman shot 46 people with much older equipment, but similar in capability really, from 230 feet up in the air out to hundreds and hundreds of yards away. So, one guy at very short range with defenseless targets in an enclosed hard to escape space with similar weapons - I think the conspiracy theorist are really reaching on a multiple shooter idea here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.