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4 minutes ago, Fredwin said:

The way the season was paced, it seemed like after episodes 3-5 things were about to go gangbusters, full throttle into new territory. Then it relapsed. It's like you can literally see the line in the script where they stopped knowing what exactly to write.

The simply best description of the season, so far. I must say, I place my "casual watcher" ears on for the show, and the books are basically nonexistent (until I get a line/scene from them that give me a little jolt) while watching. It's not exactly bad television, though. The story is interesting enough to make up for off timing and mediocre writing. 

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1 minute ago, Fredwin said:

The point is that it's not congruent... The writing has been so subpar because they are afraid to leave the comfort of what is already written...

Well they just bought themselves more time and sort of finished up storylines left over from the last two books, which were massive anyways. So I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Hopefully George finishes up the next book and they can use the rest of that to adapt the rest of the next season or as close to it as possible.

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20 minutes ago, ginny11 said:

Varys is headed to Oldtown IMO, he will meet up with Sam and Gilly.

Only if he has Pinkie's teleporter.

Plus how will he procure a navy there?

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6 minutes ago, ginny11 said:

It seems to me that it was made clear that Arya had NOT known or expected that the FM were going to try to assassinate her (in the last scene she says to Ja'qen "you sent her to kill me"), which makes it more believable that her guard was down. Yes, it's hard to believe that she could sustain stab wounds to the stomach like that with what was likely an unsanitary dagger, plus falling into the canal water, and survive without infection. I'll choose to believe that the Waif missed vital organs and that Lady Crane had a maester-level knowledge of first aid and stock of supplies as well. 

I'm glad someone shares a similar opinion on the Arya plot. Everyone who's human has a lapse in judgement sometimes, especially teenagers (which is still essentially what Arya is). She thought the coast was clear and that maybe the city was large enough, so she let her guard down and paid for it. Fortunately for her, the waif is a sadist and wanted her to suffer, which allowed her to recover. 

It's still hard to beleive that she could run around like that after a minor patch job. Maybe adrenaline surge helped her (yeah, let's go with that!). I'm glad they at least showed she was still injured after her crazy jump. The scene in which she cuts the candle I thought was a great way to end it. Her blind fighting skills were put to good use. 

As for the rest of the episode, I had a sneaking suspicion that in some weird way, trial by combat would be taken off the table; however, I didn't think it would be Tommen to do it. 

I didn't really like the way that Riverrun went down, and wish the writers would have chose to have Blackfish go with Brienne and Pod. I'm curious as to what's going to happen to the rest of the Tully army. Bend the knee to the Freys? Take the Black? Get executed? Too much in the air for me. 

I did enjoy the BwB and Hound scene. I did not expect him to find the 3 he was hunting down waiting for him in hangman's nooses. It did at least bury the questions of why the Brotherhood would kill innocent people. 

The scene with the guy teaching the younger lad how to kiss a woman, along with the Hound shoe shopping had me cracking up pretty hard.

All in all I thought the episode wad OK. Not their best but far from their worst. 

My 2 cents

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3 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Well they just bought themselves more time and sort of finished up storylines left over from the last two books, which were massive anyways. So I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Hopefully George finishes up the next book and they can use the rest of that to adapt the rest of the next season or as close to it as possible.

Exactly, the stalling is what I have the issue with, though. HBO said they wanted to show to go 10 seasons, but it's like they figured out that there's no way they can write this show for 10 seasons because they don't know what to do with it. 

Maybe that gives us hope for a decent prequel series, but... if they can't write this they can't very well write that, you'd think.

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1 minute ago, Winter Blues said:

The simply best description of the season, so far. I must say, I place my "casual watcher" ears on for the show, and the books are basically nonexistent (until I get a line/scene from them that give me a little jolt) while watching. It's not exactly bad television, though. The story is interesting enough to make up for off timing and mediocre writing. 

I get this as a criticism of the season.  It was inevitable though.  George is brilliant in a lot of ways, but the two most important talents he's used to make ASOIAF a success are these: 1) he's one of the best dialogue writers ever, and 2) he can weave several plotlines together and balance them over the course of several books.  Without him, the dialogue has had less of that simultaneously natural and poetic feel that his writing has.  Also, they're stalling a bit on the plot.  They seem to have plugged the holes with old plotlines for this year to limp along.

 

It's still the best show on television.  I say that in something resembling amazement since I was pretty sure this would go off the rails, a la True Detective, after last season.

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Yes her recovery was unbelievable. I think someone I knew once had a stomach surgery and couldn't even drive a car for a few weeks.    

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35 minutes ago, Fredwin said:

This episode was the perfect illustration of how the show is coming off the tracks without GRRM's template.

The whole season is uneven, and they are hovering between the areas of the book where they explicitly know what happened, and kind of know from what the fanbase has figured out over the years.

Here we are a books worth of episodes past what is written on paper and we still have barely progressed the story. With the exception of Hodor(Which they were explicitly told about) everything that's happened(or been "confirmed") this season was already a mostly predicted outcome. We've had flashbacks, time-traveling(Riverrun, not Bran) and teleports en masse and we've yet to really move out of the Book Five comfort zone. 

Now they're saying there's only 14 episodes left, if that is the case, why did they botch so many storylines this year in the name of expediency? If there really are 14 episodes left, that means they are basically stalling until the very last set of episodes where they have a general idea of what the last character arcs will be, and it's so apparent.

I can't believe the entire season has been a build-up to the three conflicts that are the cliffhangers in A Dance with Dragons. The battle of Mereen, The battle of Winterfell, and Cersei vs. The Faith.



 

Couldn't agree more. The wheels have come off. They are clearly padding every episode to simply get to the end of the story arcs as generalized by Martin. Nothing has happened this season. Just some exhausting dialogue and 8 episodes to set up the final battles before the final battle. The show has turned into a typical show full of cliches, cheesy dialogue, and obvious set ups. They are struggling badly without martins material to draw from. 

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So I just thought of something related to my theory that Jamie arrives in time to kill Cersei when she tries to use wildfire to burn the city down.  It does another 2 things as well: bookends nicely with the slaying of the Mad King, which would cement him as a tragic hero in the series.  It also finally brings into focus the reason why we got the "Burn them all" scene during Bran's flashback...

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19 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

What do you think about the BF comparing Sansa to Cat?

I can't help the showrunners keep trolling that part of me that, deep down, still wishes for a LSH appearance. It was incredible the amount of times Cat was mentioned in this episode, and Dondarrion is still alive.

I believe it's a way to tell us how strong Sansa is becoming.

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8 minutes ago, Fredwin said:

Exactly, the stalling is what I have the issue with, though. HBO said they wanted to show to go 10 seasons, but it's like they figured out that there's no way they can write this show for 10 seasons because they don't know what to do with it. 

Maybe that gives us hope for a decent prequel series, but... if they can't write this they can't very well write that, you'd think.

Well the biggest issue is, when you start out writing someone else's story, and then there isn't anymore of that story left, you are sort of still beholden to the path set out by that story. Even if they make changes, it's all still going in the same general direction. It's a little different if you are making your own plots and you can sort of navigate the waves yourself to find the sweet spot.

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One last question before I call it a night.  Have we actually discovered what Tommen told Cersei?  The "secret" from like episode 4 or something?  I feel like that just got dropped.  I keep waiting for that scene to pop up in the "previously on" lead-in, but it seems to have gone nowhere.

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1 minute ago, plectrum said:

One last question before I call it a night.  Have we actually discovered what Tommen told Cersei?  The "secret" from like episode 4 or something?  I feel like that just got dropped.  I keep waiting for that scene to pop up in the "previously on" lead-in, but it seems to have gone nowhere.

I'm pretty sure the secret was that Marge was going to be put on the walk of atonement, a "secret" that the HS knew Tommen would relay to her. 

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4 minutes ago, plectrum said:

So I just thought of something related to my theory that Jamie arrives in time to kill Cersei when she tries to use wildfire to burn the city down.  It does another 2 things as well: bookends nicely with the slaying of the Mad King, which would cement him as a tragic hero in the series.  It also finally brings into focus the reason why we got the "Burn them all" scene during Bran's flashback...

Yep. And I wonder if Robert Strong will end up killing Jaime so that they can get their poetic arrive together/die together scene. If not, I don't have the slightest clue what they are going to do with Jaime. 

Another alternative is that he turns his army north. He'd be more useful there, I would think. 

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8 minutes ago, Stannis Lives said:

Couldn't agree more. The wheels have come off. They are clearly padding every episode to simply get to the end of the story arcs as generalized by Martin. Nothing has happened this season. Just some exhausting dialogue and 8 episodes to set up the final battles before the final battle. The show has turned into a typical show full of cliches, cheesy dialogue, and obvious set ups. They are struggling badly without martins material to draw from. 

Looks like we get both the Battle of Fire and the Battle of Ice next episode. But wasn't that supposed to be at the end of Dance before Martin's editrix shuffled those two off to Winds?

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Arya:  

I was kinda looking forward to seeing Arya play the role of Sansa.  I think that would have been hilarious!  Oh, well.  And farewell, Lady Crane. I really liked her, both as herself and as Cersei Lannister.  I laughed when I realized how violent she was (to her lovers and the other actress) beneath that sweet exterior--just like the real Cersei.  

I actually enjoyed the waif--how different Faye Marsay was in this role compared to her role as Anne Neville in The White Queen-- and enjoyed the chase scene.  It was good that they ended the chase with Arya striking out the candle and the episode with her declaration tgat she is Arya Stark.  I wonder if that's the last we've seen of her for this season.

 

Jaime:

Really glad to see Jaime back to his Kingslayer self, threatening Edmure's baby with the trebuchet and not pointing out that he had nothing to do with the Red Wedding.  He's owning his reputation.  I enjoyed that entire conversation between Jaime and Edmure.  It's amazing what you can do with 2 good actors. Given that they have chosen not to have a break between Cersei and Jaime, Jaime's dialogue, in particular, was spot on.  I agree with others that all the mentions of Cat have to mean something.  Also, the mention of "the things we do for love" took me back to the very first episode.  For some reason, that made me think that Jaime's time will be short.  Perhaps he will sacrifice himself for Brienne in some way...If the true war is with the Whitewalkers, maybe the Lannisters will be wiped out this season.

The reunion with Brienne and the Oathkeeper discussion was well done.  I think they are definitely setting it up for a future romance, though it's likely to be unconsummated or very brief (though I am not a Jaime/Brienne shipper at all.) However, I don't understand why Brienne would not know the Blackfish, nor he her.  They were both at Riverrun together with Cat and Robb...Or is that poor continuity on the part of the showrunners?  Glad they remembered that Bronn and Pod knew each other, at least.  Also, I think Jaime could have told Brienne that Oathkeeper was made from Ice and she should take it to Sansa.

I was disappointed that the Blackfish didn't go out in a blaze of glory.  It seemed anticlimactic that he died offscreen.

I wonder if Jaime will now be able to make it back to KL for Cersei's trial.

 

Tyrion:  

I wonder where Varys is going?  My guess is that it has something to do with the Sand Snakes (unfortunately).  

I was in agony during the drinking/joke scene, until he mentioned the brothel, jackass, and honeycomb.  Nice shout-out to Tyrion's first trial by combat in the Eyrie.  But seriously, what a waste of time.

 

Cersei:

I continue to love Cersei Lannister.  Of all the people in KL, she's the one I want to survive. Lena Headey delivers her lines so well.  "I choose violence."  Loved the look on Lancel's face when that man's head was ripped off.   I was hoping that Lancel would bite it--hopefully later.  I'm ready for Tommen and Kevan to die too.  I cannot believe that he is being such a jerk to his own mother! Burn them all!  I'm sad that we are being robbed of a trial by combat.  I guess things can change between now and then.  I was really hoping Cersei would get a Trial By Seven like in the Dunk and Egg novella. that would have been super cool to watch.  Interesting that the trial will be on the first day of the festival of the Mother.  Wonder if that will work in her favor.  I wonder if she will threaten to confess that Tommen is not the son of Robert Baratheon.  That might diminish the Faith too since they are now aligned with Tommen.

I assume the rumors have something to do with wildfire, but I thought Cersei was aware of that already?  I gotta go back to that episode in Season 2 to verify.  The other possibility is the rumors are related to secret passages through which she can escape and run to Casterly Rock, but that is less likely.

 

The Hound:

Glad he got his revenge.  Sad that CleganeBowl will apparently not be a thing.  When Beric said that cold winds are rising in the north, I thought for sure that it would come out that Sansa was back in the North and it would motivate Sandor somehow.  Perhaps Brienne will run into them soon and she'll mention it.  By the way, I didn't think the "previously on" showed anything about Beric and Thoros and that was probably confusing for a lot of people.

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53 minutes ago, plectrum said:

Out of curiosity, what makes you say that?  She only has a few pages in the books.  Not like she's central to the plot (yet).

Yes, she only has a few pages in the books, but she's introduced much earlier than she possibly could be in the show (ASoS vs. 6x09+). She's had an impact in the book, even if we haven't directly seen her much. I feel like if she gets introduced in the series, she's just going to get really crammed into a couple episodes to catch up, then get sidelined while they try to space out their usage of her.

On a side note, I also see the writers of the show completely messing up her character. It's not Catelyn. LSH is really different, but I think they'd just give on another Jon, an important character who just comes back practically the same. They might not do it, but that's what I'm worried about.

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14 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Looks like we get both the Battle of Fire and the Battle of Ice next episode. But wasn't that supposed to be at the end of Dance before Martin's editrix shuffled those two off to Winds?

They really arent going too far off into Winds. A couple of the storylines have advanced past dance but for the most part, many of the the episodes have circled back to previously skipped content.  Its probably worse for book readers since we know that much of this season is recycled. It's a little boring since we know a lot of this isn't going anywhere as the conclusions have already been reached. 

Edited by Stannis Lives

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2 minutes ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Yes, she only has a few pages in the books, but she's introduced much earlier than she possibly could be in the show (ASoS vs. 6x09+). She's had an impact in the book, even if we haven't directly seen her much. I feel like if she gets introduced in the series, she's just going to get really crammed into a couple episodes to catch up, then get sidelined while they try to space out their usage of her.

On a side note, I also see the writers of the show completely messing up her character. It's not Catelyn. LSH is really different, but I think they'd just give on another Jon, an important character who just comes back practically the same. They might not do it, but that's what I'm worried about.

I'd love to see LSH(even a bastardized version) but I hope they're smart enough to have her body been preserved somewhere, opposed to floating in a river.  How would her corpse survive intact in any open environment?

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1 hour ago, Classy Cartographer said:

Awhile back sophie&maisie posted this 2 truths 1 lie thing, and one of the options sophie had was that lady stoneheart would end up in the show. I think it is setting it up with brienne in the same relative area so that arc is now going to happen. That is why BwB was also brought back up along with the beric dondarrion stating the obvious fact about how many times he came back to life to remind the viewers of thoros's power.

It's been years since Cat has died. Her corpse would be dust by now 

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