Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 23 minutes ago, U-238A said: He doesn't really need one, does he? His fists are clearly as devastating, or at least sufficiently devastating as anything he could wield. In a fight, if I could swat flies just as easily with my hands as I could with a shoe, I wouldn't bother with the shoe. Against spears that are 16 feet long and held behind a shield wall a large club would have been incredibly useful to Wun wun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1NT3RF3LL Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Against spears that are 16 feet long and held behind a shield wall a large club would have been incredibly useful to Wun wun. Ya, I don't get that either. if he had something he probably could have busted up the wall to some degree, maybe not all of it, but some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, W1NT3RF3LL said: Ya, I don't get that either. if he had something he probably could have busted up the wall to some degree, maybe not all of it, but some of it. A hole in the shield wall would have allowed Jon and his men to break the encirclement. They should have used Wun Wun like a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Jon was just a poor general. He never should have forced that fight. He might have marched on the Dreadfort, Last Hearth, and Karhold (all in the northeast portion of the North) and with a giant to knock the gates down that would be trouble for the Bolton alliance. Or better yet, just ignore the castles and raze the lands and cities. Thats a Tywin move. Ramsay would have little choice but to follow Jon, allowing him to fight a battle of maneuver on his own terms. Jons army of wildlings would be ideal for this type of manuever, moving faster than Ramsays army could and able to live off the land more effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1. How about Tormund going full Rick Grimes on SmallJon. 2. Also, why were Ramsey's men so willing to sacrifice so many of their brothers by shooting arrows at them. Was it fear/loyalty to Ramsey or were the archers a different House then those in the calvary and didn't care. Do Ramsey's men literally not draw the line somewhere on what they will morally do lol. (Yes, I get that it was done for dramatic effect, to build the body wall, and all that, just wondering if anyone else has a problem with that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: A hole in the shield wall would have allowed Jon and his men to break the encirclement. They should have used Wun Wun like a tank. That was my thought as well. Lesson learned, if youre going to bring a giant to your fight, give him a weapon. So much of what happened in this battle was clearly just to serve the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, mbuehner said: Jon was just a poor general. He never should have forced that fight. He might have marched on the Dreadfort, Last Hearth, and Karhold (all in the northeast portion of the North) and with a giant to knock the gates down that would be trouble for the Bolton alliance. Would have loved to have seen this. Would have been like seeing Robb's plan of taking Casterly rock played out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Jon was dumb, but Ramsay was even dumber. The way he used Rickon was downright moronic. A single archer hitting and killing a moving target like this is extremely unlikely, to put it mildly. And if Rickon had made to Jon's side, Ramsay would have looked really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Davos didnt exact cover himself in glory either. Instead of throwing his archers into melee and allowing the entire force to be surrounded, he might have, i dont know, marched forward and shot at the Umbers before they charged, or the enemy archers, or better yet, have every archer do nothing but aim for Ramsay. Kill the Bastard, end the battle (maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Mbuehner, It was a battle for TV. Not a battle that showed intellegent tactics (though the phalanx showed how discipline wins over "heroics"). I knew Rickon was dead but I kept hoping he'd make it. Why run straight? Why not dodge around a bit to make the shot even more difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, David Selig said: Jon was dumb, but Ramsay was even dumber. The way he used Rickon was downright moronic. A single archer hitting and killing a moving target like this is extremely unlikely, to put it mildly. And if Rickon had made to Jon's side, Ramsay would have looked really stupid. It's like Rickon has never heard of running in a zig zag or maybe running behind one of the crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Isn't Davos a sailor who has no clue about combat on land, BTW? Why was he leading a part of the army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tower of albion Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Shame Brienne wasn't in the battle that would of been good. Fighting back to back with Tormund. She could've killed the karStark. I hope the writers make good use of her now there is no Stoneheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, Soccer69 said: 1. How about Tormund going full Rick Grimes on SmallJon. 2. Also, why were Ramsey's men so willing to sacrifice so many of their brothers by shooting arrows at them. Was it fear/loyalty to Ramsey or were the archers a different House then those in the calvary and didn't care. Do Ramsey's men literally not draw the line somewhere on what they will morally do lol. (Yes, I get that it was done for dramatic effect, to build the body wall, and all that, just wondering if anyone else has a problem with that). 1. Well anything could happen lol. Tormund is wayyy wilder so he killed of SmallJon with that wild way seems realistic to me. 2. Another stupidity from the screenwriters. Loll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, the tower of albion said: Shame Brienne wasn't in the battle that would of been good. Fighting back to back with Tormund. She could've killed the karStark. I hope the writers make good use of her now there is no Stoneheart. Dude, if Brienne gets killed and revived and becomes LSH, holy crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, David Selig said: Isn't Davos a sailor who has no clue about combat on land, BTW? Why was he leading a part of the army? I don't blame the writer for this detail lol, as if Jon team had many options in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, David Selig said: Isn't Davos a sailor who has no clue about combat on land, BTW? Why was he leading a part of the army? It's been shown in the past that Davos does actually fight on land. When Stannis attacked Mance's camp, Davos could be seen putting his sword back in it's hilt, but it's clear the sword is covered in blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuSeaworth Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 7 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: Walder Frey arrived with his army when the battle was almost over . Just like Sansa. Both came late. She could have told Jon to buy time but she didnt. Walder frey didn't declare his support for Robert during the rebellion until the outcome was nearly decided. His military contribution to the campaign was negligible. The knights of the vale showed up and win the battle. I really don't see any similarities here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 7 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: Walder Frey arrived with his army when the battle was almost over . Just like Sansa. Both came late. She could have told Jon to buy time but she didnt. Wow, this is one very shitty comparison. Walder Frey came AFTER the fight was already won. Sansa came in when Jon's army was about to lose and saved him from the jaws of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfin Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I totally understand that this thread contains multiple military experts. I get that. You guys have played tons of video games. This on the other hand is a dramatic tv show. Jon had a good plan for an undersized army. That plan went out the window when his little brother was killed by Ramsay who also raped, tortured, and held her against her will. He also took control of his castle. If he knew Sansa definitely had The Vale army would it have been different? The answer is unknown because Ramsay might have played his cards differently. This episode was played out like this to show everyone that Jon is an absolute beast and Sansa is now an official player in the big game. Getting this hung up on battle strategies from a tv show will get you nowhere fast. You've got to take it with a grain of salt and figure out why they did it for the story moving forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.