Bond 25: No Time To Die

[Mosi Mynn]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah that’s what I heard too. But the question is whether they bin off James Bond and reboot the franchise with her. It would be idiotic to do so I think, but likely.

I don't think it would be idiotic, but I do think it's unlikely.  It would be an odd way to introduce the new Bond when there's always such a media frenzy around the reveal.

Spoiler

I suspect she gets killed off, TBH! Although that might cause huge controversy too.

 

[Heartofice]

Who knows, this could be some way of drumming up interest in a franchise that is losing its way. Or testing the waters for the idea of a spin off.

But this does sound like exactly the sort of thing a studio desperate to milk its properties for all they are worth would do.

[polishgenius]

Honestly anyone who wilded out over this news is being a fucking doofus. If they were gonna make a woman Bond they'd just do that, and they'd have announced it with great fanfare long before the fucking thing started filming.

Apart from that, from what it seems is happening, I could see it being a backdoor pilot for a spinoff but not only is Bond being replaced as 007 not outrageous but within context of the universe where he fucked off and retired it makes total sense. Anyone who has a problem with that replacement being a black woman is just a dickhead.

[Heartofice]

51 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Apart from that, from what it seems is happening, I could see it being a backdoor pilot for a spinoff but not only is Bond being replaced as 007 not outrageous but within context of the universe where he fucked off and retired it makes total sense. Anyone who has a problem with that replacement being a black woman is just a dickhead.

Bond's number being taken over in the movies makes a lot of sense since he's been constantly terrible at his job most of the time. I'd have no problem with that, if he managed to get it back.

However I don't think there is any real point rebooting the franchise and not having James fucking Bond in it. The whole point is that the movies are about him. Hopefully they aren't attempting to do that, because it is dumb. It reminds me of when they were trying to set up Shia The Beef as the new Indy, and nobody had any appetite for that shit. 

[polishgenius]

Just now, Heartofice said:

However I don't think there is any real point rebooting the franchise and not having James fucking Bond in it. The whole point is that the movies are about him.

 

They're not going to do that though are you crazy? Like I say, and you say, they might do a spinoff, they're not gonna replace James Bond with someone new, though.

It could someday happen that there's a Jane Bond movie but she won't be introduced in a handover from the previous Bond, she'll be press-released with much fanfare and she'll be Ruth Wilson.

[Heartofice]

10 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

It could someday happen that there's a Jane Bond movie but she won't be introduced in a handover from the previous Bond, she'll be press-released with much fanfare and she'll be Ruth Wilson.

Well they might be seeding the idea. It wouldn't happen so quickly, but if she tests well, and decent positive reaction to the character, who knows.

Studios are essentially lazy and could just do a soft reboot of Bond, keep the whole Bond universe, but just update it with a new woke sheen. 

[Argonath Diver]

I have this sneaking suspicion that she's going to die 45 minutes into the movie anyways. It sounds to me like it's a simple plot device that he's temporarily retired and she got the number. I enormously doubt they'll push her character as a replacement to James Bond, nor do I expect they'll introduce Jane Bond etc.

Though a character like Charlize Theron's in Atomic Blonde is a pretty fucking awesome figure as a bisexual, alpha-personality superspy - they could just make Atomic Bond(e) movies with her for awhile and I'd be totally on board.

[polishgenius]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Studios are essentially lazy and could just do a soft reboot of Bond, keep the whole Bond universe, but just update it with a new woke sheen. 

They could, but why on earth would they? Bond is the one franchise they don't have to do that with since it's so damned ingrained within it to reboot it entirely every so often.

But hell, even if they do do a Jane Bond I doubt they can James, they can run the series side-by-side, separate universes, get the best of both worlds. For the same reason. There isn't a hard canon for the Bond universe, no-one's going to get upset about introducing a new one.

[Nictarion]

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

They're not going to do that though are you crazy? Like I say, and you say, they might do a spinoff, they're not gonna replace James Bond with someone new, though.

It could someday happen that there's a Jane Bond movie but she won't be introduced in a handover from the previous Bond, she'll be press-released with much fanfare and she'll be Ruth Wilson.

If Ruth Wilson is ever in a Bond movie I’d much rather see her as a villain. She plays crazy so well (see Alice Morgan on Luther). 

[Fez]

I know M isn't as big a role as Bond, but Ralph Fiennes did take over as M at the end of Skyfall rather than getting press conference-introduced.

I could see them trying something similar with Bond/007 here. I think they definitely want to shake things up, and this would certainly be that. Spectre wasn't a flop or anything, but it was not critically well-received (and made a lot less than Skyfall). And in the meantime, the Mission Impossible and Fast and Furious movies have taken over as the top exciting action movie franchises filmed in exotic locations with fun gadgets and car chases.

There's also always the theory that James Bond is a code name (and all the different Bonds over the years have actually been different characters) and it just so happens that the Bond code name has always had the 007 designation. They could have their cake and eat it by introducing the new 007 in Bond 25 and then she meets the next James Bond in the next movie; and either they become partners and the series becomes more team-centric (like MI and F&F) or the next Bond eventually gets the 007 designation.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

 And in the meantime, the Mission Impossible and Fast and Furious movies have taken over as the top exciting action movie franchises filmed in exotic locations with fun gadgets and car chases.

One of my issues with the recent Bond movies is that they have really just played out like much more boring versions of a Mission Impossible movie. The Casino Royale with Craig felt a bit like they had watched the Bourne movies and wanted that. I guess that has always been the case with Bond movies, they tend to adapt to the times and bend according to what is trending (not always for the better) 

3 minutes ago, Fez said:

and either they become partners and the series becomes more team-centric (like MI and F&F) or the next Bond eventually gets the 007 designation.

This however seems like a disaster, I would hate for them to go down this route, even now the movies seemed to have tried to give more time to the Bond girls and side characters and Bond gets a little lost in his own movies. 

It's hard to say what exactly a Bond movie is, what defines it, but I just get this sense that I'd like them to stick to that and do it really well. That might even include James Bond being a womanising, heavy drinking sexist. 

[polishgenius]

13 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

If Ruth Wilson is ever in a Bond movie I’d much rather see her as a villain. She plays crazy so well (see Alice Morgan on Luther). 

Well, she wants it we know that.

 

15 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

 

Though a character like Charlize Theron's in Atomic Blonde is a pretty fucking awesome figure as a bisexual, alpha-personality superspy - they could just make Atomic Bond(e) movies with her for awhile and I'd be totally on board.

There is a sequel on the way apparently.

 

11 minutes ago, Fez said:

I know M isn't as big a role as Bond, but Ralph Fiennes did take over as M at the end of Skyfall rather than getting press conference-introduced.

I could see them trying something similar with Bond/007 here.

I mean come on that's nowhere near the same thing.


As for Mission Impossible and F&F taking over-  no Mission Impossible movie has made as much as Spectre did, let alone Skyfall. Fast and Furious has gone ballistic for sure, but I don't think they're really playing in the same headspace even post-spy-reinvention- there's an overlap with MI, but not so much with Bond.

Spectre was a disappointment, sure, but so was Quantom of Solace, and they didn't suddenly radically redefine things after that. Even after Die Another Day, they didn't turn it into a team movie or anything like that- they may well take cues from those franchises the way Casino Royale did from Bourne and Batman Begins, but they just decide not to be Bond anymore.

[Veltigar]

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Honestly anyone who wilded out over this news is being a fucking doofus. If they were gonna make a woman Bond they'd just do that, and they'd have announced it with great fanfare long before the fucking thing started filming.

Good sir, a rational take on this new overblown new development? You are aware that you are on the internet right? 

[HexMachina]

From the accounts I've read Lynch is just the new 007, not the "new Bond." Since James resigned at the end of Spectre yeah of course there is a new 007. I echo @polishgenius that anyone getting worked up over this is a doofus. 

Personally even if it was a signal that we are moving towards a female Bond, I see no issue anyway. Yes yes, I know, male wish fulfilment fantasy Yadda Yadda Yadda. Yawn, spin it to someone who cares, if you are the type of man who needs to see some Acton hero spinning out a fantasy of having adoring women throw themselves at him at every opportunity (or acting in a predatory way to get them to have sex) then you need to take a good look at yourself and question some of your ideals and values and behaviour.

 

 

Also, yay for Lashana Lynch. She was awesome in Captain Marvel

[Argonath Diver]

15 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Also, yay for Lashana Lynch. She was awesome in Captain Marvel

Yeah, this isn't being discussed much as people go back and forth over the outrage. Lynch was very likable in Captain Marvel, and having a charismatic, sexy and strong superspy who happens to be a British black woman sounds awesome to me. 

I'm guessing that Bond will try to seduce her, she'll rebuff him and take out some henchmen immediately following. Craig will give her an impressed eyebrow raise, only to see her tragically die in act two of the movie. Just spitballing here.

I'd much prefer it if she has a semi-major role as an effective agent - who both lives and does not go heel in a plot twist a la Goldeneye's 006. As some thought, perhaps her character will be a hit, and they can do a spin off with her, while keeping James Bond alive and well. It's pretty much impossible for me to tire of smart, well-crafted heist or spy flicks, so the more the merrier. And as @polishgenius said, I'm 100% all for a sequel to Atomic Blonde (Charlize mentioned it last year, but I haven't seen any further developments), which was basically a female Bond movie already, and was fucking fantastic.

[Heartofice]

12 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Personally even if it was a signal that we are moving towards a female Bond, I see no issue anyway. Yes yes, I know, male wish fulfilment fantasy Yadda Yadda Yadda. Yawn, spin it to someone who cares, if you are the type of man who needs to see some Acton hero spinning out a fantasy of having adoring women throw themselves at him at every opportunity (or acting in a predatory way to get them to have sex) then you need to take a good look at yourself and question some of your ideals and values and behaviour.

Good call! In 2019 this simply isn’t the time nor the place for portray men as good at fighting or attractive to women. Anyone who might want to see that is probably some sort of Trump voter!

[polishgenius]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Good call! In 2019 this simply isn’t the time nor the place for portray men as good at fighting or attractive to women. Anyone who might want to see that is probably some sort of Trump voter!

You notice how nobody has any problems about Ethan Hunt or the Fast and Furious lads as role models for men? I like Bond but it has issues, and even in the reboot it's found it hard to get away from those issues.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

 I'm 100% all for a sequel to Atomic Blonde (Charlize mentioned it last year, but I haven't seen any further developments), which was basically a female Bond movie already, and was fucking fantastic.

I thought it was an ‘all style , no substance’ movie was a turd for a plot, and poor choreography. I won’t be watching a sequel.

I’d much rather watch a sequel to Haywire, which is a genuinely good female led action movie with Gina Careno, who can actually fight and pulls no punches

[Heartofice]

Just now, polishgenius said:

You notice how nobody has any issues about Ethan Hunt or the Fast and Furious lads as role models for men? I like Bond but it has issues, and even in the reboot it's found it hard to get away from those issues.

That wouldn’t make as interesting a click bait story

[Argonath Diver]

See, that's where pop culture opinions are so varied. I thought Haywire was incredibly bland, that Careno tries hard to act, but still feels wooden and unnatural. After that terrific diner fight, it just got duller by the minute. I don't even remember if I bothered to finish it, nor do I recall a lick of the plot. I thought the fight choreography in Atomic Blonde was terrific and visceral, though of course you're correct that Gina looks strong as all hell in her role. 

Sometimes movies just don't work for certain people - I love Soderburgh, but I didn't think Haywire felt like one his movies. You aren't the first person to tell me they didn't like Atomic Blonde, though I was gleefully into it throughout.