Am I The Only One Around Here Who V.2

[Yukle]

3 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

In connection with that, AITOOAH who's annoyed that most of the men in ASOAIF who are supposed to be super attractive are jerks of some type or other?

Hmm... Daario seems to be a somewhat normal person, just a mercenary. But then... I can't think of many other examples. So you're right. 

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

AITOOAH who thinks there's a good chance Stannis might become the Night's King and lead the Others?

Now I do!

 

Please no!

[RhaenysBee]

15 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

re: Do we really know that? We don't actually know next to nothing about Kevan's sexuality and even less about Genna's. 

You're not the only one, I've noticed that, too, and it is a bit annoying.

In connection with that, AITOOAH who's annoyed that most of the men in ASOAIF who are supposed to be super attractive are jerks of some type or other?

define super attractive. do you mean the characters grrm describes as "super attractive"? I'm not sure who they are... Jaime, Renly, Young Robert, Loras...? Maybe you are right... but then these are none of the men in Asoiaf that I found attractive. In a book it's very very very difficult to differentiate between the physical appearance and the personality of a character. When it comes to the show at least we have the face of the actors, but we still have different taste in men. For instance, I'll never see how Jaqen is sexy. To me, he just isn't. 

 

Along the same lines, 

Am I the only one around here who thinks the show cast unattractive actors for some male characters one pictured as attractive based on the books? (I found both Mance and Euron (in a creepy and dark way) attractive in the books and I think neither of the actors do justice to their characters - with regard to appearance and personality as well)

 

[Annara Snow]

@RhaenysB I mean the characters that are described as/ considered handsome/physically attractive by other characters in the books. How much one likes a character's personality doesn't come into it and is obviously subjective. (It's much harder to make subjective judgments about the looks of the book characters since we don't see them.) 

I'll try to list all male characters that are explicitly described as/ considered physically attractive.

Jaime Lannister

Renly Baratheon

young Robert Baratheon

Loras Tyrell (not exactly a jerk maybe, but still a hothead, a bit arrogant, and a murderer)

Joffrey

pre-Reek Theon Greyjoy

Gerold Dayne

Aurane Waters

Lyn Corbray

Daario Naharis

Jaqen H'ghar

Oberyn Martell

the Kettleblack bros

Euron Greyjoy

Harry the Heir

Young Griff (not necessarily a jerk I guess... though I find him meh)

Brandon Stark

Rhaegar Targaryen (probably/maybe not a jerk, still controversial though)

young Aegon IV

Prince Daemon Targaryen

Criston Cole

Laenor Velaryon (he was OK, I guess)

Daemon Blackfyre

Daemon II 

some minor characters who are exceptions:

Daemon Sand

Qarl the Maid

Tristifer Botley 

Not all of them are jerks, but many of them are, and many are intentionally meant to be attractive jerks or attractive villains, or  aren't necessarily jerks (or it is a matter of opinion) are controversial or not exactly what you call nice. There are just a few exceptions, mostly with minor characters.

Quote

Am I the only one around here who thinks the show cast unattractive actors for some male characters one pictured as attractive based on the books? (I found both Mance and Euron (in a creepy and dark way) attractive in the books and I think neither of the actors do justice to their characters - with regard to appearance and personality as well)

Well, Mance is never described as being particularly physically attractive - it's his personality that makes him attractive, and that's where the show failed. (I also wouldn't necessarily describe Ciaran Hinds as unattractive - he is, however, notably older than Mance is supposed to be.) I don't know enough about show Euron as I didn't watch season 6, but physically he looks very wrong for Euron (who is described as attractive in a dark way). Someone like Mads Mikkelsen (a popular fancast) would make a great Euron. The actor they cast seems as scary as a teddy bear (and about the same age as Theon and Yara).

I do think that the show has cast (relatively) unattractive actors in roles of attractive characters. I remember how interested I was who they cast as Renly - I don't like Renly's personality, but physically he's described as one of the most gorgeous men in the world, and the actor was average looking. They also changed his character from a confident and charismatic narcissist to a nice guy manipulated by others. And Jack Gleeson was amazing, but not as attractive as book Joffrey is meant to be. On the other hand, they cast very attractive actors for characters that are supposed to unattractive, like Iain Glen as Jorah (and they changed his personality as well).

Speaking of physical beauty, AITOOAH who thinks that Cersei hasn't actually lost much of her looks at all, and that this has been really exaggerated by fans? Neither Jaime nor Osney Kettleblack, who saw her naked very recently, thought her less physically attractive than before. People insulting her looks during the Walk (and those were just some people, it's not like everyone was doing it - most were making sexual slurs) is simply similar to how trashy magazines like to take pictures of beautiful celebrities when they go out of their house without makeup early in the morning, or take pictures on them on the beach and zoom in on their cellulite. Nobody is physically perfect, it's just a matter of people enjoying having famous people that are presented as "godlike" (though presentation, airbrushing, Photoshop) taken down a peg and seen as "just like us". In Cersei's case it's a part of deliberately demolishing her image as the Queen, remote and untouchable. But Cersei is obsessed with beauty and perfection and fear of aging so she takes it all very hard.

[Queen of Procrastination]

No you're not alone. I believe the same thing. No one looks perfect, but Cersei is so vain and obsessed with her beauty, that its hard for her to except her this. Furthermore, stuff like birthing children or being a prisoner leaves marks on everyone's body, but Cersei just doesn't want to accept that. 

Regarding Tywin: I think he's overrated, because I believe both the people of Westeros and some people of this forum make him out to be better than I believe him to be or fail to recognise some of his mistakes. I think he's ovverated as a military commander. He's not bad quite the contrary, but he lost against Robb and only bothered to get involved into Robert's Rebellion when it was clear that the rebells had won. As far as I know he never had to fight a battle against superior odds. So I think he's a good military commander, but not as good as some people make him out to be. He's a very good politician, but I think he's overrated in that regard as well. His ideas helped to win the War of the 5 Kings and made House Lannister very powerful, but they also turned House Lannister into one of the most hated Houses of Westeros. Many people only followed him, because they feared him, but after his dead things went downhill. Sure his children are partially to blame for that. However, I think he lacked a bit of longtermthinking and failed to recognise that loyalty based on fear might disappear after the person people fear is gone. I also think that some people here make him out to be some sort of perfect politician, but there are no such things and how many of us would like to have a (brutal) leader like him in RL? I'm not denying that Tywin was very good at what he did and he definetely deserves a lot of recognition, especially for keeping Aerys in reign for so long, I just think that he's not as good as some people in Westeros and on this board make him out to be. 

Am I the only one around here who sometimes mixes up scenes from the show and scenes from the books? Ocassionally I believe that some scenes which only appeared in the books also appeared in the show and that some original show scenes were taken from the books, even though they actually weren't. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

23 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

Well, minor Lannisters like Kevan and Genna seem to have healthy sexualities.

Oops, should have clarified. I meant the four Lannisters most prominent in the books - Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion and Tywin.

BTW, +1 on the observation that 90% of the female characters are really stunning or atleast quite good looking, while the men really seem average. I can understand that personal beauty, for example, is integral to the arcs of Cersei, Sansa, Melisandre, Dany etc, but it feels a little "fanservicey" when Val, for instance, is such a beauty that she can turn the heads of men anywhere in the world, and, whaddayaknow, she's falling for our supposedly plain faced hero (Jon is supposed to look exactly like Ned, who was never called particularly handsome).

 

On that note....this might be really unpopular, but:

AITOOAH that feels Jon is treated as a special snowflake by the author on occasion? He's given Longclaw with magically, a hilt fashioned exactly for him, in the first book (when Valyrian steel swords are supposed to be an honor for any House to possess), he's saved by Summer right when he has to make the horrible decision of either killing or sparing the old man, he's saved by Stannis when he goes to parley with Mance, he has almost a seemingly perfect woman (Val) as love interest now, Tycho Nestoris appearing out of nowhere to give him a loan when the Watch is low on food and supplies because of the wildlings, etc. 

It might just be my perception, of course, but I think that the other characters actually have been forced into pretty tough situations by the author where they have to make bad choices, but in his case the author seems to bail him out of it most times.

[Queen of Procrastination]

Did you hijack me 

I know that a few others feel the same way, but I don't maybe I'm a bit biased because Jon is one of my favourites, but I think similar complaints might be made about other characters like Arya (who gets saved repeatedly by others and Jaquen who suddenly develops interest in her) or maybe even Tyrion. Even Dany getting the Dragoneggs might be seen in that regard. Why hasn't Illyrio given them to Aegon, if he's his preferred choice for the IT? 

I try it again: 

Am I the only one around here who sometimes mixes up scenes from the show and scenes from the books? Ocassionally I believe that some scenes which only appeared in the books also appeared in the show and that some original show scenes were taken from the books, even though they actually weren't. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

Crap, I forgot to answer the previous question. I saw my notification and replied to that forgetting which thread it was.

I'm sure you're not alone in mixing up some scenes from show and books. I've seen it happen a few times in the book-only threads.

 

 

AITOOAH who wants to know how Old Nan learnt all her stories?

[Count Balerion]

I assume it's by living a long time, seeing many things, and hearing many stories from the people before her. Speaking of which ... But hang on for a moment.

One show/book confusion I may have made is that I could have sworn Ellaria ended season 4 by asking what the point of vengeance is, while in season 5 she became a vengeance-driven child-murdering harpy. Then someone told me she never said that stuff about vengeance being pointless in the show, only (only) in the books. I haven't gone back to check season 4, though.

Am I ... who finds the stories the most enjoyable parts of Bran's arcs? The travelling about in the wastelands is rather dull; but I did like the stories.

[Queen of Procrastination]

Well I like his arc overall, but the stories make it even better for me.

@Little Scribe of Naath: No problem  

Am I the only one around here who has ocassionally misread and mispelled Edd's last name, so that he ended up becoming Edd Toilet? I had to laugh a lot, because of that. It made him even more fun than he already was  

[Raisin' Bran]

I would be surprised if anyone has not made that mistake. It is quite easy to do.

Am I the only one around here who thinks that Victarion does not get enough respect by the fanbase?

[RhaenysBee]

Yes. Victarion has way more respect than he deserves as it is. 

 

Am I the only one around here who wonders if there's anybody in the world who enjoyed the Aeron chapters? 

[Queen of Procrastination]

19 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yes. Victarion has way more respect than he deserves as it is. 

 

Am I the only one around here who wonders if there's anybody in the world who enjoyed the Aeron chapters? 

I wasn't curious about this before, but you got me thinking. Reddit Asoiaf recently did a survey on stuff like favourite ASOIAF book, POV etc. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/5btz60/spoilers_main_rasoiaf_goes_to_the_polls_2016/

As you can see there were 32 people who voted for him in the favourite AFFC category and 8 people who voted for him in the overall favourite POV category. So these people must have enjoyed his chapters. I personally didn't like them very much. I wasn't such a big fan of the Iron Islands chapters in general, though I like Asha's and Theon's chapters in the North and the Forsaken chapter got me a bit hyped for the Ironbornstoryline in TWOW. 

Am I the only one around here who really hopes that Benjen has gone over to the dark side and is working for the Others?

[Yukle]

1 minute ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

Am I the only one around here who really hopes that Benjen has gone over to the dark side and is working for the Others?

I've been wondering the same thing. I also assume that for most readers, who don't reread the novels, they'll have read aGoT so long ago that when it's revealed Benjen Stark steps out they'll go...

"GASP! Wait... who is that again?"

[Annara Snow]

3 hours ago, Yukle said:

I've been wondering the same thing. I also assume that for most readers, who don't reread the novels, they'll have read aGoT so long ago that when it's revealed Benjen Stark steps out they'll go...

"GASP! Wait... who is that again?"

You didn't ask the next question...

Meanwhile, man, the results of that Reddit poll are an additional confirmation I've been doing the right thing by not joining that thing. Just the fact that there are more people whose favorite AFFC POV  is Victarion than Sansa is depressing enough. Female POVs generally ranked low. Someone in the comments said it's because GRRM supposedly badly writers women. No, bro, GRRM is fantastic writing women. It's all down to you as the reader.

Also, how the heck is The World of Ice and Fire more popular than the Dunk and Egg novellas? I rank it the lowest of all ASOAIF works, alongside The Rogue Prince.

It would be interesting to do something similar on Tumblr and compare the results.

[Queen of Procrastination]

4 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

You didn't ask the next question...

Meanwhile, man, the results of that Reddit poll are an additional confirmation I've been doing the right thing by not joining that thing. Just the fact that there are more people whose favorite AFFC POV  is Victarion than Sansa is depressing enough. Female POVs generally ranked low. Someone in the comments said it's because GRRM supposedly badly writers women. No, bro, GRRM is fantastic writing women. It's all down to you as the reader.

Also, how the heck is The World of Ice and Fire more popular than the Dunk and Egg novellas? I rank it the lowest of all ASOAIF works, alongside The Rogue Prince.

It would be interesting to do something similar on Tumblr and compare the results.

Well I think someone mentioned recently that only 1/5 of the sub are women and I guess that many of the members prefer male POVs. Victarion and the Iron Born are really popular over there.  Contrary to you I don't like Sansa and don't enjoy her chapters, but I still prefer them 10 times over Victarion's. I don't find it enjoyble at all to read out of the perspective of someone who thinks that it is ok to murder your wife because she cheated on you. I suspect many of the people who voted for him just prefer his fight scenes over the Vale (with no action).  I'm not a member of the Sub actually. I just lurk, because there are sometimes interesting discussions. Just brought it up, because it gave a good answer to the question. 

I agree that GRRM does a fantastic job writing women I haven't encountered many male writers who do such a good job at it. 

I can't judge TWOIAF, because I haven't read it yet, same goes for the Rogue Prince and the Princess and the Queen, but I really liked the Dunk and Egg novellas, so I find it strange that they are so unpopular. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

It's only really on this website you see in depth discussion of characters, and specially the female characters, actually. Tyrion is almost universally the top character outside of Westeros.org, and almost never do you see his character faults being examined or dissected. That poll is frankly, not surprising at all.

That said, in general, people tend to prefer the "exciting" POVs over the slower ones, naturally. It's could also be a factor that Tyrion and Jon might be very relatable for a lot of the male readers reading this series (one is a nerd in a martial world, feels unappreciated, can't score with the really hot women/ another is a brooding, introverted, "outsider looking in" , moral choices very relatable). 

Victarion is a hilarious POV. He's the closest thing to a parody/joke POV we're going to get.

[Queen of Procrastination]

43 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

It's only really on this website you see in depth discussion of characters, and specially the female characters, actually. Tyrion is almost universally the top character outside of Westeros.org, and almost never do you see his character faults being examined or dissected. That poll is frankly, not surprising at all.

That said, in general, people tend to prefer the "exciting" POVs over the slower ones, naturally. It's could also be a factor that Tyrion and Jon might be very relatable for a lot of the male readers reading this series (one is a nerd in a martial world, feels unappreciated, can't score with the really hot women/ another is a brooding, introverted, "outsider looking in" , moral choices very relatable). 

Victarion is a hilarious POV. He's the closest thing to a parody/joke POV we're going to get.

Well to defend Reddit a bit. I've actually found a couple of good character discussions over there, though not as many as on this board. I suspect a problem might be the downvoting system which leads to a situation where people just downvote the posts and topics that they don't like or the one's they don't agree with.

However, favourite character polls have also been made here (several times actually) and in terms of overall favourite character the  outcome was pretty similar to the one on Reddit 

Our's also has non-POV characters, but if we only look on the POVs then you'll find the same people in both top 10 lists with only a few changes when it comes to the rank of the characters. Though I agree about Tyrion, he's still the favourite over here, but I suspect that we have more Tyrion fans here who are willing to acknowledge his flaws than on other boards.  What I still find a bit shocking about both polls is the low placing of Catelyn (she's behind Cersei on Reddit!). I know there are many people who don't like Catelyn, but still I find it strange to put her so low. IMO she has interesting chapters. 

Does someone know the gender balance of this board? It would really interest me. 

[Queen of Procrastination]

Going back on topic; Am I the only one around here who hopes that we will see more of Aurane Waters in TWOW? 

[RhaenysBee]

Maybe? I liked him because he screwed over Cersei, but that's all. He should stay wherever he sailed those ships, eat, drink, make babies and live happily ever after. 

@Lady of Whisperers Those statistics basically confirm the mainstream Asoiaf opinions I guess. I still don't know what those 32 people like so much about Victarion. Oh well, we are weirdos in different ways. My own Asoiaf opinions aren't overly popular either. 

Am I the only one around here who wishes there were an equivalent of Christmas in Asoiaf, just because I love the Christmas episodes of series and who wouldn't want to see Edd decorate Castle Black or Joffrey demand a 37th Christmas gift? 

[Raisin' Bran]

First off, Christmas rocks. However, when seasons do not change in a predictable way, its tough to understand how a "seasonal" holiday would be celebrated in an off season, unless it was celebrated once a season, then you would only have a handful of holidays over the course of 3-4 years. That said, holidays always make life more bearable. BRING OUT THE TINSLE EDD!!!

About Victarion. I know he is unpopular and I understand the reasons why, I do not disagree with them. I was only seeing if someone else thought that maybe he was not AS "unintelligent", "despicable", etc. as many of you make him out to be.

AITOOAHW wonders about what an equivalent to Christmas in Westeros would be? What would they celebrate? The last hero? The Andals?