US Politics- Stay Gold, Pony Boy

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, Risto said:

Oh, boy, this is getting ugly... Like, seriously ugly. I mean, like someone should really stop. ASAP.

It is amazing to see entire country going through the "5 stages of grief". And it seems that Americans are currently in "anger" phase. I mean, the initial shock of Trump's victory was soon followed by ideas that somehow Electorate college may vote otherwise. Now, since that didn't happen, we are in full rage mode. And the way I see it is that USA has the very serious problem of looking itself in the mirror and acknowledging what happened. These Russian hacks story, as legitimate as they are, at the end of the day, didn't put Trump where he is now. It was American people who accepted him, who accepted him being orange racist and ultimately vote for him. I find the questioning of the legitimacy of the elections, so publicly and so widely, is truly dangerous and I am afraid to even think what the consequences may be.

But it is interesting to see how it works. Russians, the old-traditional villains, had in part in what many of us thought to have been impossible. Rather convenient, don't you think? Even if it is true, and when it comes to Russian meddling, I take it serious, what has been proven is nowhere close to what people need it to be. 

He is a scum, make no mistake. He is a sexist pig, orange racist, mouthbreather (thank God I didn't need much time to use that one) but he has always been that. That is the personality that American people chose on legitimate elections. Fast-forwarding to acceptance would be the best. Because this vicious circle needs to end. A lot of energy is energy is being wasted on questioning the presidency than to heal the wounds of country and make it stronger and united. 

Nah. Not sure I agree. Think there are still a ton of open questions that need to be answered before universal acceptance can become a thing. And those questions are just getting larger. If Trump wants to try to unite the country instead of attacking his criticizers, then he might get a little more support from the half of the country that didn't vote for him. But disparaging them and their representatives at every turn will only continue to exacerbate the situation. Blame the people who don't accept him all you want but the biggest issue right now is Donald J. Trump and how he's acting. He could clean this up by being Presidential, divesting his companies, accept Russia actively participated in disrupting the election but instead he'd rather attack people on twitter, cozy up to Putin and whine about the lack of respect he's getting. 

Sorry, but his actions are directly leading to the lack of "acceptance" in his presidency and only Trump can change the narrative. There is a reason he has the lowest approval rating of an incoming president ever and it is earned. This is not a normal situation and I don't think it's appropriate for us to treat it as such.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 I'm not sure acceptance is really ever going to be on the table. It's more a matter at this point of saving your powder for the important fights. Having a measured response to the significant lines that Trump will invariably cross during the course of his presidency. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Trump tweets send book sales through the roof for Rep. John Lewis...

 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bookmark/trump-tweet-sends-john-lewis-book-sales-soaring-964415?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

[Martell Spy]

Quote

I'm not sure acceptance is really ever going to be on the table. It's more a matter at this point of saving your powder for the important fights. Having a measured response to the significant lines that Trump will invariably cross during the course of his presidency. 

I think fucking with NATO and becoming Putin's lackey are two of those lines. I mean this isn't a Democrat thing. There are Republicans that don't like these things. Although Trump is making these things more acceptable to many Republicans. Which is horrifying.

More attempts to unite the country by the Trump team.

 

Trump Team Considers Kicking Press Corps Out of White House

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/15/trump_administration_could_kick_press_corps_out_of_white_house.html

[LongRider]

32 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Trump Team Considers Kicking Press Corps Out of White House

It's been noted he has his own security force, he claims to have his own intelligence community, and with the head honcho of Briebart News as one of his primary advisors........   I'd say he already has the ability to create his own press corps.

[Commodore]

if the press has credibility with the public, Trump will pay a political price for shunning them

he's certainly right to believe they are on the other side

 

[TrueMetis]

8 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

It's been noted he has his own security force, he claims to have his own intelligence community, and with the head honcho of Briebart News as one of his primary advisors........   I'd say he already has the ability to create his own press corps.

Well considering his admiration for Putin it wouldn't be surprising if Trump wanted his own media too.

[Martell Spy]

CIA chief calls Trump Nazi Germany comparison 'outrageous'

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/cia-brennan-trump-nazi-germany-233636

 

Rand Paul raises 'big question' of Medicaid rollback

http://www.politico.com/rand-paul-obamacare-repeal-medicaid

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Don't worry. He will replace the CIA with something so much better. It will be fantastic.

Am I the only one looking forward to Orange's Area 51 tweet.

You should have seen it's unbelievable. :')

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Mexal said:

Nah. Not sure I agree. Think there are still a ton of open questions that need to be answered before universal acceptance can become a thing. And those questions are just getting larger. If Trump wants to try to unite the country instead of attacking his criticizers, then he might get a little more support from the half of the country that didn't vote for him. But disparaging them and their representatives at every turn will only continue to exacerbate the situation. Blame the people who don't accept him all you want but the biggest issue right now is Donald J. Trump and how he's acting. He could clean this up by being Presidential, divesting his companies, accept Russia actively participated in disrupting the election but instead he'd rather attack people on twitter, cozy up to Putin and whine about the lack of respect he's getting. 

Sorry, but his actions are directly leading to the lack of "acceptance" in his presidency and only Trump can change the narrative. There is a reason he has the lowest approval rating of an incoming president ever and it is earned. This is not a normal situation and I don't think it's appropriate for us to treat it as such.

I agree, so to speak.

Why are we supposed to move beyond anger here in the US when this is the case:

Quote

Trump was the candidate so weak that his victory needed the disenfranchisement of millions of voters of colour, the end of the Voting Rights Act, a long-running right-wing campaign to make Clinton’s use of a private email server, surely the dullest and most uneventful scandal in history, an epic crime and the late intervention, with apparent intent to sabotage, of the FBI director James Comey. We found out via Comey’s outrageous gambit that it is more damaging to be a woman who has an aide who has an estranged husband who is a creep than actually to be a predator who has been charged by more than a dozen women with groping and sexual assault.

Not to mention the direct interference of the Russians.

Why are we supposed to stop being angry about this?  Evidently because those who tell us to know that anger can be a supreme force for keeping on keeping on (see the Women's Marches of the 21st -- which by the way? in D.C.? the city's metropolitan services have received only 200 requests for bus parking permits for the so-called inauguration,, while the March has received over 1200 . . . ) -- for ACTION.  But we're all supposed to roll over and play dead.  Why?  They don't and didn't and haven't for decades.

Do not forget -- OF THOSE WHO VOTED, MORE VOTERS DID NOT WANT HIM THAN VOTERS WHO DID. See above, what it took to get him elected.

With privatized security and everything else, how can anyone say this is not a coup?

No reason at all to quit the anger.

 

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

When you state when more people voted for someone that person gets the most votes.  Trump did not get more votes.  He got more votes in a certain configuration.

Yes Foreign interference in the election is a big deal.  That the country has its own of doing so is still not a justification.

We also have on tape the candidate who one encouraging such interference.

Trump ran on questioning the whole system and how it is delegitimite. He would of questuon the election if he lost a very close race (we have the tweets). There is something of reaping the whirlwind.

It doesn't matter whether Trump got more votes or not. He won according to the existing system, The fact I think that system may be flawed is another thing. But he LEGITIMATELY won just like 47? people before him.

No, this is not about USA doing the same, although a lot can be said about that. It is about the real extent of Russian interference. Is it all about Podesta's emails or is it more sinister than we actually want to admit? I understand the opposing to the idea of him as being the President, but it seems that the interference in question is not enough to seriously question the legitimacy.

Of course he would question the system if he lost, he is an idiot. But, what if Hillary won, would Russians matter that much? I feel as someone wants to create the narrative that Trump won solely because of Russians, without going through a painful process of self-realization. You know, all those racist bullshit and countless tragedies on the streets of USA is not something happening in a bubble. This is the natural continuation of that. And 47/8% of country voting for a man with such messages is something a country needs to think quite deeply. Because there is a problem with radicalization that just can't be swept under the rug while people tout how they have the first African-American president.

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think that's the problem. Someone has taken the presidency whose behaviour and values are repellent to over half the population of the country. How do you heal and become stronger and more united when the person in charge has no interest in meeting you halfway?

Yeah, I would agree with that. The fish stinks from the head. I just hope somehow this resolves. I know it won't be easy but peaceful transition of power is what democracy should be all about. At the end of the day, in 4 years (most likely) he will have to do the same. 

 

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, Mexal said:

Nah. Not sure I agree. Think there are still a ton of open questions that need to be answered before universal acceptance can become a thing. And those questions are just getting larger. If Trump wants to try to unite the country instead of attacking his criticizers, then he might get a little more support from the half of the country that didn't vote for him. But disparaging them and their representatives at every turn will only continue to exacerbate the situation. Blame the people who don't accept him all you want but the biggest issue right now is Donald J. Trump and how he's acting. He could clean this up by being Presidential, divesting his companies, accept Russia actively participated in disrupting the election but instead he'd rather attack people on twitter, cozy up to Putin and whine about the lack of respect he's getting. 

Sorry, but his actions are directly leading to the lack of "acceptance" in his presidency and only Trump can change the narrative. There is a reason he has the lowest approval rating of an incoming president ever and it is earned. This is not a normal situation and I don't think it's appropriate for us to treat it as such.

I am not exactly blaming people for not accepting him, but I do acknowledge the need of not questioning the legitimacy of his presidency. Unless there are some new info, he won according to the rules. We don't know how much exactly did Russia tip the scale, and even if they did so (Now is a nice time for USA to stop thinking of Russia as something stuck in the past, devastated country with no real power). 

I agree that he is doing all the wrong things. Meryl Streep alone thing was disastrous. I know he is the only one that can change the narrative but I feel like that there is no open hand from other side for him to do so. I think that the country has been dangerously polarized. And I don't think it is a good thing. 

[Mexal]

What open hand do you want the other side to provide? What could they possibly do? Stop reporting on his conflicts of interests that he refuses to do anything about? Stop reporting on the Russian hack that he dismisses? Stop reporting on his tweets where he trashes anyone that possibly criticizes him including a Civil Rights icon? Stop reporting on the Republicans working to repeal ACA without an alternative? Stop reporting on Trumps attempt to curtail the press? Stop reporting on the hypocrisy of the Republicans who literally did everything they criticized the Democrats of doing now over the past 8 years?

I just don't understand what you think people should do. Trump is the legitimate president because he won the electoral college but there are very real and clear issues that just don't go away because he won 80k more votes in 3 states. As long as he ignores the established norms for a President and disparages the 65 million people who voted against them, this isn't going to stop.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

With privatized security and everything else, how can anyone say this is not a coup?

 

Speaking of coups, in addition to all this, a Supreme Court pick was stolen.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Commodore said:

if the press has credibility with the public, Trump will pay a political price for shunning them

he's certainly right to believe they are on the other side

 

The notion that nice pieces about the current POTUS are 'on a side' is itself the problem. Treating a human being like a human is now partisan?

[Kalbear]

14 minutes ago, Risto said:

I am not exactly blaming people for not accepting him, but I do acknowledge the need of not questioning the legitimacy of his presidency. Unless there are some new info, he won according to the rules. We don't know how much exactly did Russia tip the scale, and even if they did so (Now is a nice time for USA to stop thinking of Russia as something stuck in the past, devastated country with no real power). 

I agree that he is doing all the wrong things. Meryl Streep alone thing was disastrous. I know he is the only one that can change the narrative but I feel like that there is no open hand from other side for him to do so. I think that the country has been dangerously polarized. And I don't think it is a good thing. 

Trump has, not once, attempted to reconcile in any way. Others have given him ample opportunities to do so. Sanders and Warren, for crying out loud, have stated in the past that they'd work with him. Obama tried to give him a good chance. Trump has shat on all of those chances again and again and again. 

At some point it is not only on one side to concede or ask to support. Trump believe that this is the case - that since he has won, he is the authority and everyone should listen to him. To be fair, this is precisely how it works with conservatives and precisely how it works in the GOP. It is not how the US works. It certainly wasn't how the GOP worked when Obama was elected. The senate minority leader said that his single priority was to make sure  that Obama didn't get re-elected and to challenge him at every turn. How is that accepting Obama?

I think it's very important to question the legitimacy of a president when there are actual legal questions surrounding said president. That's sort of the point. Just because he won by the rules doesn't mean he's legitimate, any more than Nixon was a legitimate president after Watergate. If Trump or his senior staff have been colluding with Russians in order to win, that is a major deal. if Trump is violation the constitution by taking essentially bribes, that is a major deal. If Trump is making deals with countries because they make him successful and are at the cost of US interests, that's a major deal. Any of those would make him an illegitimate president.

When John Lewis says that Trump is not legitimate, that is what he is talking about. He isn't talking about voting irregularities; he is talking about Trump being a witting agent of Russia. 

[Mexal]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

When John Lewis says that Trump is not legitimate, that is what he is talking about. He isn't talking about voting irregularities; he is talking about Trump being a witting agent of Russia. 

Lets also remember that John Lewis has been privy to the classified report on the Russian hacking. He knows more than the average citizen. 

[Martell Spy]

GOP Congressman, Overwhelmed by Constituents Concerned About ACA Repeal, Sneaks Out of Event Early

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/15/rep_mike_coffman_sneaks_out_of_event_early_as_constituents_ask_about_aca.html

 

Who’s the Illegitimate President Now, Mr. Birtherism?
Trump spent five years trying to delegitimize Obama. Now he's taking office under a cloud of suspicion, and only has himself to blame.

https://newrepublic.com/article/139840/whos-illegitimate-president-now-mr-birtherism

[Mexal]

6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

GOP Congressman, Overwhelmed by Constituents Concerned About ACA Repeal, Sneaks Out of Event Early

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/15/rep_mike_coffman_sneaks_out_of_event_early_as_constituents_ask_about_aca.html

They're in for a rude awakening. All of the right wing media portrayed Obamacare as the devil without actually letting people know that it's the reason they have insurance. Take it away and there will be a revolt among their supporters which is what we are starting to see. Also we're starting to see a mobilization of liberals, similar to the 2009 tea party. Opposition politics is a strong motivator.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Martell Spy said:

GOP Congressman, Overwhelmed by Constituents Concerned About ACA Repeal, Sneaks Out of Event Early

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/15/rep_mike_coffman_sneaks_out_of_event_early_as_constituents_ask_about_aca.html

Brave Sir Robin ran away.

Bravely ran away away.

When danger reared its ugly head

He bravely turned his tail and fled.....