Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Arakan said: What Trump does domestically is up to him and the American people. But Trump should be very careful with his foreign policy. He is on confrontation course with major allies and if he thinks he simply can start blackmailing and bullying a number of countries because so far those countries always gave in, he is very wrong. NATO: mutual beneficial, real facts: defense budget of each NATO member should reach 2% of GDP BY 2020! on its way! Furthermore: without US bases all over the world no more power projection capability. But if Trump wants to give Germany back Ramstein and re-open a base in Albania, I have no problem with that. Trade: everyone loses in a trade war which Trump seems to be willing to start. Additionally it will further alienate supposed close allies. Agreed. As to the bolded section, what scares me is that a global trade war could easily lead to an actual war. Trade agreements exist in part to prevent wars, and Trump is really playing with fire. Plus, there might not be anything more dangerous than an idiot with power who doesn't realize they are an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Damn, that was depressing. And frightening. So Trump downgrades the role the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence on the National Security Council and then promotes Bannon? Now that seems pretty Hitler like; as in ignoring or downplaying the advice of professionals and listening to political hacks. Can't wait until Trump appoints one of his friends as commanding general to the newly formed 1st Trump Leibstandarte Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 41 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Well, I've seen a bunch of reports on polls conducted in the United States in the last few days about support for Trumps immigration ban on travelers from high risk countries. And while the margin differs, all the polls seem to show more people supporting the ban than opposing it. Some have it as high as 59% supporting it, others as low as the mid forties, but still higher than the opposing view. The polls were taken on different days, so I don't know if the negative reaction is scaring off some people who were formerly in support of it. But at the very least, it seems a majority of Americans appear to ideologically favor his position on this issue. As I said, the polls seem a bit all over the place, and I'm not sure which are sufficiently representative. But there certainly is no overwhelming view in opposition to his action. In fact, if anything, more seem to support it than oppose it. I'd like to see a poll after the ban, when it becomes clear what the actual EO says, what the implementation looks like and how it affects people's lives. It's fine in the abstract when you think it'll be implemented with a clear set of goals, clear set of processes and a smooth transition and then there is what we're experiencing now; utter chaos, no vetting by any relevant agency, trampling of people's rights and unclear direction what needs to actually happen. The last poll I saw going around on FoxNews yesterday to make the very point you're making was from January 5-9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 To add to the trade war talk, yes everyone loses, but most global markets are pretty robust. If the US get in a bunch of trade wars with other countries, they will suffer some from not having the US to trade with, but the US will suffer much more from not trading with a whole bunch of different countires. Mexico and Canada might be the sole exceptions to this, since so much of their economies are based on trading with the US that they would have a lot of difficulty weathering the storm. It's sort of like playing Settlers of Catan, if you choose not to trade with one player, the biggest beneficiaries are almost always the players not involved in the trade war. If you choose not to trade with anybody, then you are virtually guaranteed to lose. Yes, the world economy is much more multifaceted than Settlers, but plenty of countries have tinkered with protectionism, and it rarely goes well for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: So Trump downgrades the role the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence on the National Security Council and then promotes Bannon? Now that seems pretty Hitler like; as in ignoring or downplaying the advice of professionals and listening to political hacks. Can't wait until Trump appoints one of his friends as commanding general to the newly formed 1st Trump Leibstandarte Division. I'm watching Sean Spicer running a press conference right now explaining how all of us have misinterpreted the meaning of everything. The Trump administration is just being very transparent, announcing things that other administrations had done but not announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: So Trump downgrades the role the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence on the National Security Council and then promotes Bannon? Now that seems pretty Hitler like; as in ignoring or downplaying the advice of professionals and listening to political hacks. Can't wait until Trump appoints one of his friends as commanding general to the newly formed 1st Trump Leibstandarte Division. It's already started. DHS is already breaking the law and disregarding the courts to support the president. Kelly isn't going to go against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 53 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Well, I've seen a bunch of reports on polls conducted in the United States in the last few days about support for Trumps immigration ban on travelers from high risk countries. But high risk countries - you know, where IS terrorists really come from (Saudi Arabia, Lebanon) and/ or who fund the IS (Saudi-Arabia) - are not banned. Maybe they don't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 11 hours ago, sToNED_CAT said: You can't really vet people from failed states, that's the point. And yet the US has successfully been doing so for the past 13 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Sean Spicer just railed against the media for criticizing the Holocaust Remembrance Day statement, saying that there are two staff members of the Jewish faith, and the statement recognized all people who suffered, and look at that horrible UN resolution that was supported by the last administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: But high risk countries - you know, where IS terrorists really come from (Saudi Arabia, Lebanon) and/ or who fund the IS (Saudi-Arabia) - are not banned. Maybe they don't know that. Per Sean Spicer, this is protection from future attacks. No need to justify any list of countries. Future countries will be added to this list when they have been identified by darts thrown at a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 And also. Spicer keeps saying only 109 people were detained, and delaying 109 people to protect 324 million people is a small price to pay, and look, they're all out now aren't they? And any employee who doesn't follow instructions needs to be fired (or words like that, the questions are coming fast and furious). And Senator Schumer's tears? Where were his tears over lost jobs and the homeless etc etc etc, Schumer shouldn't be crying now if he hasn't cried before, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savannah Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Arakan said: NATO: mutual beneficial, real facts: defense budget of each NATO member should reach 2% of GDP BY 2020! on its way! Furthermore: without US bases all over the world no more power projection capability. But if Trump wants to give Germany back Ramstein and re-open a base in Albania, I have no problem with that. 'Give' it back? The ramstein base is american, they built it, the german rammstein has more m. stands for metal, not military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Week said: Per Sean Spicer, this is protection from future attacks. No need to justify any list of countries. Future countries will be added to this list when they have been identified by darts thrown at a wall. More that they'll be identified when they can blame it on someone else like they've been doing with Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Week said: Per Sean Spicer, this is protection from future attacks. No need to justify any list of countries. Future countries will be added to this list when they have been identified by darts thrown at a wall. That makes perfect sense. I should not have questioned his logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Just now, Mexal said: More that they'll be identified when they can blame it on someone else like they've been doing with Obama. True, more accurate. Each action seems to have a scapegoat already identified as a rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Savannah said: 'Give' it back? The ramstein base is american, they built it, the german rammstein has more m. stands for metal, not military. Really? Germany made the base American territory? Gave it to the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, Week said: Per Sean Spicer, this is protection from future attacks. No need to justify any list of countries. Future countries will be added to this list when they have been identified by darts thrown at a wall. He's not doing this to protect us. He's doing this to MAKE US AFRAID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: And also. Spicer keeps saying only 109 people were detained, and delaying 109 people to protect 324 million people is a small price to pay, and look, they're all out now aren't they? And any employee who doesn't follow instructions needs to be fired (or words like that, the questions are coming fast and furious). And Senator Schumer's tears? Where were his tears over lost jobs and the homeless etc etc etc, Schumer shouldn't be crying now if he hasn't cried before, apparently. Spicer's really good at what he does: not answering any questions and just being a hype man for Trump. He either deflects, ignores the spirit of the question to focus on a tangential irrelevant aspect of it, or uses it as a pivot to push bullshit talking points (the most blatant is acting like this is just an extension of Obama's 2011 move involving the 7 countries). I hear he likes Onions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savannah Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 You have a point, Fragile Bird. Germany should definitely not have to pay for the land if they want the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, Week said: Per Sean Spicer, this is protection from future attacks. No need to justify any list of countries. Future countries will be added to this list when they have been identified by darts thrown at a wall. Why do you think Obama originally designated those seven countries for increased vetting? Quote He's not doing this to protect us. He's doing this to MAKE US AFRAID fear is not always unjustified entry through the refugee program is a clear vulnerability, we should be fearful of ISIS exploiting it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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