kissdbyfire Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: I don't agree. Yeah, Ned did the dead but he was bound by duty to his king to do this. Sansa did it because she was mooning over Prince Joffrey and she didn't have the guts to tell the truth. I put the glame squarely on Sansa. Sansa is 11, she's a child even by Westeros standards. And I'm not talking about Ned killing Lady, but about the fact that he knew what had happened and still kept his mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Stannis sending a shadowbaby to kill Renly and Penrose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Sansa is 11, she's a child even by Westeros standards. And I'm not talking about Ned killing Lady, but about the fact that he knew what had happened and still kept his mouth shut. Sansa's age is irrelevant. It was still a cowardly act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: No, that's on the Ned. Sansa is 11 years old, a child. Yes, what she did was wrong, but Ned knew the truth, had all the facts, and still kept his mouth shut instead of telling Robert to bugger off and ride back to Winterfell. Ned's first big mistake of the series. Well, aside from not listening to Gared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: Sansa's age is irrelevant. It was still a cowardly act. Age is not irrelevant. The cowardice of adults is always worse than the cowardice of children. The silly little girl thought she was in love. But her actions alone did not cause the entire chain of events that followed. Hate on, but even the author says Sansa had only a small part in what happened. Let's not forget the insane Aerys demanding the heads of people who had done absolutely nothing wrong, after having slaughtered Brandon's friends (except for little Ethan Glover) and their fathers. But, since he's crazy, I'm not sure we can hold him as accountable as Theon and the others for their own cowardice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I know the title says "deed", but can I just pick whole character of Pycelle? Basically, what Pycelle did was to choose toughest bully in the courtyard (Tywin), earn his good graces by extensive ass-kissing, and then used said bully's cover to pick on and bully everyone else. His entire character is one giant "I am THE coward" bright neon flashlight right over his forehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: Sansa's age is irrelevant. It was still a cowardly act. It's not irrelevant at all. Expecting a child to act as an adult in a difficult situation like that is preposterous and completely unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 You can sort of let Sansa getting Lady killed slide. Then she told Cersei about Ned's plan, which is why she and Arya never left KL, which is why Ned confessed to treason. LF likely would have betrayed Ned anyway so I won't blame her for that, Sansa being naive is understandable but I've never seen a slow learner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Age is not irrelevant. The cowardice of adults is always worse than the cowardice of children. The silly little girl thought she was in love. But her actions alone did not cause the entire chain of events that followed. Hate on, but even the author says Sansa had only a small part in what happened. Let's not forget the insane Aerys demanding the heads of people who had done absolutely nothing wrong, after having slaughtered Brandon's friends (except for little Ethan Glover) and their fathers. But, since he's crazy, I'm not sure we can hold him as accountable as Theon and the others for their own cowardice. Sure, and the author also said he does absolve Sansa of the actions that eventually led to the death of her father. Sansa is a coward and it's not hating on her to say so though I admit to disliking Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: Sure, and the author also said he does absolve Sansa of the actions that eventually led to the death of her father. Sansa is a coward and it's not hating on her to say so though I admit to disliking Sansa. Most eleven year olds are cowards. It's not necessarily an inherent character trait. What Sansa did was not remotely on par with things like what Walder Frey, Tywin Lannister, Theon Greyjoy, and others have done in the cowardly department. By the way, I dislike Sansa too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I'd have to vote for Aerys II as the culprit, but which deed? So many to choose to from but I'll pick the Stark/fire duel just because of how it came to be and what followed. Although Cersei's purging of the bastards is a close second and maybe because it's narrower in scope I'll make it a provisional first with Aerys II being second even in dastardly cowardice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 hours ago, LindsayLohan said: Just going to put this out there: Joffrey was an insufferable little shit, but he didn't cower during the Battle of Blackwater. His mother ordered a Kingsguard to drag him back, he was happily getting his war on and thinking (blissful ignorance, but still) that he was leading the defenses. Cersei was appalled to find out Joffrey wasn't watching from the rear or some elevated, safe position, but instead was chucking Antler Men into the bay. That little retard really thought he was going to kill someone with his stupid sword. He might have been a vicious idiot, but he wasn't afraid of anything other than his mother. He even talked shit directly to Tywin, called him a coward. What are you talking about Joffrey is one of the biggest cowards in all of asoiaf. He was never in danger at the blackwater at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: Most cowardly act? Sansa siding with Joffrey. Had that sorry excuse for a girl told the truth, Mycah and Lady might have lived. Sansa sided with Joffrey not for any noble reason but for selfish reasons of her own. How was that a cowardly act. She was going to marry him she didn't really have a choice. She had no idea that Mycah and Lady would be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Boarsbane said: Stannis sending a shadowbaby to kill Renly and Penrose. Wo wo wo wo take it back!!! Stannis the Mannis the True King of Westeros is not a coward. Who held Storm's End agains the might of the Reach through starvation? Who took Dragonstone? Who defeated the Iron Born and took Great Wyk? Who defeated the Wildlings and is about to crush the Boltons? Stannis was betrayed by his greedy brother and was outnumberd 4:1. He was betrayed and therefore he did the only thing he could do and that was to assasinate Renly. To assasinate an enemy is part of war and dosnt make you a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Bob in AGOT. Catelyn Tully Stark captures a Lannister, Jaime Lannister attacks Ned Stark, and what does King Robert do? He goes hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYellowAppleFossoway Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Certainly not the most cowardly act, but Barristan Selmy staring at his feet while the Lannister regime disregards a royal order and grabs the throne was pretty cowardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMance Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Ramsay Snow hunts half naked women through the woods with dogs. That's...that's not good. And on the topic of Sansa, her 4 year old brother, her crippled 9 year old brother, and her 10 year old sister are all brave SOB's. Not to mention her father and 2 older brothers. I get that she's a young (ish) highborn lady but "the north breeds harder people" and, at least early on, she ain't making the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 32 minutes ago, TheYellowAppleFossoway said: Certainly not the most cowardly act, but Barristan Selmy staring at his feet while the Lannister regime disregards a royal order and grabs the throne was pretty cowardly. There was no royal order to arrest Robert's wife and children. Barristan serves the King (whcih at that point was Joffrey) while Ned had his men draw their swords in the Throne Room. I'm not sure what you expected Barristan to do in that situation, he serves the King and Ned was trying to arrest the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYellowAppleFossoway Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 59 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: There was no royal order to arrest Robert's wife and children. Barristan serves the King (whcih at that point was Joffrey) while Ned had his men draw their swords in the Throne Room. I'm not sure what you expected Barristan to do in that situation, he serves the King and Ned was trying to arrest the King. A legitimate succession issue had been raised. Joffrey had not had his coronation, so his status as king was not official. Ned had an official order from the king naming him lord protector of the realm. Cersei shows utter contempt for the order and willfully violates it. Barristan should have stepped in as an immediate referee of sorts until the issue could be resolved. He did nothing to take order or de-escalate the situation. He showed weak leadership (A characteristic that continues in his mereen dealings) and just sat on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said: Wo wo wo wo take it back!!! Stannis the Mannis the True King of Westeros is not a coward. Who held Storm's End agains the might of the Reach through starvation? Who took Dragonstone? Who defeated the Iron Born and took Great Wyk? Who defeated the Wildlings and is about to crush the Boltons? Stannis was betrayed by his greedy brother and was outnumberd 4:1. He was betrayed and therefore he did the only thing he could do and that was to assasinate Renly. To assasinate an enemy is part of war and dosnt make you a coward. Is Stannis is so great then why did he have to resort to underhanded tactics to beat Renly and take Storm's End? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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