Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I did another read of Game not too long ago, and speaking of colors, Arya gives us a description of Ned is wearing before he is killed.

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He was dressed in a rich grey velvet doublet with a white wolf sewn on the front in beads, and a grey wool cloak trimmed with fur (Arya V, AGOT 65)

His House colors are flipped. The doublet is grey and the direwolf is white. 

[Lady Dacey]

29 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I did another read of Game not too long ago, and speaking of colors, Arya gives us a description of Ned is wearing before he is killed.

His House colors are flipped. The doublet is grey and the direwolf is white. 

I never noticed that! 

[Lost Melnibonean]

49 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I did another read of Game not too long ago, and speaking of colors, Arya gives us a description of Ned is wearing before he is killed.

His House colors are flipped. The doublet is grey and the direwolf is white. 

I think that was an intended insult by Cersei. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

24 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think that was an intended insult by Cersei. 

It's interesting given the broader context and sort of ironic. Ned took Jon under his care, turned a possibly legitimately born baby into a bastard, and Cersei did the same to Ned. By having him take the black, she took his name, his titles, his lands from him. 

the flipping of the color was very likely Cersei's final insult to Ned, but what I take as the meaning behind it is pretty interesting.

[Lady Anna]

Bloodraven, the Ghost of High Heart, and Ghost all have white skin (well, in the latter's case fur) and red eyes, like the weirwoods. I think they're all actually described as having skin/fur 'as white as bone' or something similar, but I can't be sure. And of course they're all connected to the Old Gods.

[ravenous reader]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Can just reply to this part at the moment, yes I think lies and secrets are shades of truth tooGoing back to shades and colors, could they also be dark truths and white lies? I don't know what that would make grey but here's an idea: Wolves of Stark children are grey and black because truth is dark and being true Stark children, their sigil is a grey direwolf. Jon's is White because his identity is a white lie and this false identity is him being a bastard, hence the colors of his CoA would be reversed like Aemon Rivers' for an example.

I like how when Ned is writing Stannis the letter denouncing Joffrey's right to the throne and declaring him a bastard, he seals the letter with the 'white direwolf' -- ironically, Jon is the true heir!

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

His regency would be a short one, he reflected as the wax softened. The new king would choose his own Hand. Ned would be free to go home. The thought of Winterfell brought a wan smile to his face. He wanted to hear Bran's laughter once more, to go hawking with Robb, to watch Rickon at play. He wanted to drift off to a dreamless sleep in his own bed with his arms wrapped tight around his lady, Catelyn.

Cayn returned as he was pressing the direwolf seal down into the soft white wax.

 

[Kandrax]

Ryman Frey: 

If you would follow me, my father awaits."

Another way to say: "You are dead, mate".

[LynnS]

17 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

that Ghost opened his 'third eye' before the rest, including Summer (and therefore that Jon opened his third eye before Bran whom we're told opened Jon's third eye, the latter who logically, following the symbolism, must've opened Bran's third eye who must've..., etc...introducing the inevitable notion of circular-not-linear time with the possibility, nay necessity, of 'time travel' -- perhaps 'time projection' is a better expression)!  Perhaps Jon is even the 'three-eyed crow' as @LynnS has suggested.

Jon speaks of his recurring dreams to Sam; something he has never told anyone about.  How long he has been having these recurring dreams is the question.  He dreams of his mother and the crypts:

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A Game of Thrones - Jon III

Not my mother, Jon thought stubbornly. He knew nothing of his mother; Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn, and her eyes were kind.

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A Game of Thrones - Jon IV

Jon Snow laughed with him. Afterward they sat on the frozen ground, huddled in their cloaks with Ghost between them. Jon told the story of how he and Robb had found the pups newborn in the late summer snows. It seemed a thousand years ago now. Before long he found himself talking of Winterfell.

"Sometimes I dream about it," he said. "I'm walking down this long empty hall. My voice echoes all around, but no one answers, so I walk faster, opening doors, shouting names. I don't even know who I'm looking for. Most nights it's my father, but sometimes it's Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle." The thought of Benjen Stark saddened him; his uncle was still missing. The Old Bear had sent out rangers in search of him. Ser Jaremy Rykker had led two sweeps, and Quorin Halfhand had gone forth from the Shadow Tower, but they'd found nothing aside from a few blazes in the trees that his uncle had left to mark his way. In the stony highlands to the northwest, the marks stopped abruptly and all trace of Ben Stark vanished.

"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.

Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That's when I always wake." His skin cold and clammy, shivering in the darkness of his cell. Ghost would leap up beside him, his warmth as comforting as daybreak. He would go back to sleep with his face pressed into the direwolf's shaggy white fur. "Do you dream of Horn Hill?" Jon asked.

An empty castle full of bones is perhaps a foreshadowing of future events.  A suggestion that Jon's third eye is open.

[divica]

8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Jon speaks of his recurring dreams to Sam; something he has never told anyone about.  How long he has been having these recurring dreams is the question.  He dreams of his mother and the crypts:

An empty castle full of bones is perhaps a foreshadowing of future events.  A suggestion that Jon's third eye is open.

Actually weren t the stables reconstructed and someone says the structure is very fragile? 

Is it foreshadowing that lots of people will die in the stables?

[LynnS]

25 minutes ago, divica said:

Actually weren t the stables reconstructed and someone says the structure is very fragile? 

Is it foreshadowing that lots of people will die in the stables?

It could be a premonition about Theon and Ramsey.  When Bran leaves the crypts, everyone is dead.  Bones perhaps a foreshadowing of death.  Some event in the future that will affect Jon.  It seems a bit like a green-dream so I'm guessing that Jon's 3rd eye was already open before the direwolves, since this is an old recurring dream. .  

[divica]

39 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It could be a premonition about Theon and Ramsey.  When Bran leaves the crypts, everyone is dead.  Bones perhaps a foreshadowing of death.  Some event in the future that will affect Jon.  It seems a bit like a green-dream so I'm guessing that Jon's 3rd eye was already open before the direwolves, since this is an old recurring dream. .  

It just ocurred to me.

How diferent are greendreams from targ prophetic dreams? How would jon dreams be if he had both gifts?

[LynnS]

8 minutes ago, divica said:

It just ocurred to me.

How diferent are greendreams from targ prophetic dreams? How would jon dreams be if he had both gifts?

Not sure what you mean by targ prophetic dreams.  The prophecy of the PwiP came from a wood's witch, likely the Ghost of High Heart.  What are you thinking of specifically?

 

[divica]

7 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Not sure what you mean by targ prophetic dreams.  The prophecy of the PwiP came from a wood's witch, likely the Ghost of High Heart.  What are you thinking of specifically?

 

The targ that dreamed about the doom of valyria, danny dreamed about a black dragon before hatching the dragons, the dream about duncan being in the KG...

They are similar dreams to greendreams.

[LynnS]

27 minutes ago, divica said:

The targ that dreamed about the doom of valyria, danny dreamed about a black dragon before hatching the dragons, the dream about duncan being in the KG...

They are similar dreams to greendreams.

Yes, they are prophetic dreams in my book.  Although Dany's dream of the black dragon is something else because this is the dream where she transforms into a dragon and flies.  On one hand, that dream seems more like Bran's coma dream to me and it's also something like a direwolf dream when the dreamer becomes the dragon or the wolf.  At this point, Dany only has the dragon eggs but they are magical objects in their own right.

I think that one of them, the black egg contains the soul of Rhaegar and this is the dragon that she wakes.  I don't think it's a coincidence that the dragons sings to her or that Dany dreams of wearing Rhaegar's black armor (= skinchanging black dragon).  Just as Starks can have a second life in their direwolves; I think dragon eggs can contain the souls of the Targs that are bonded to them.  This is the great dragon that Davos mentions; the one Melisandre claims she can wake.  When in fact, I think it is Dany who has done that.  She sacrifices the life of her own unborn son to resurrect Rhaegar in the black egg.  They swap states (death for life) and her son is described as being dead long ago while the long dead egg comes to life. 

I think it's this 'great dragon' that confers on her temporary immunity to fire and the sacrifice of Mirri Maaz Duur, a god's wife and holy blood that hatches the eggs.   The great dragons of the Targs were their dragon gods and Drogon is said to be the reincarnation of Balerion.   I think this is the riddle of the Valyrian sphinx, the body of a dragon and the head of a man or woman. 

So we have two parts of the prophecy of waking the dragon and waking dragons from stone associated with Dany.      

[Seams]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

She sacrifices the life of her own unborn son to resurrect Rhaegar in the black egg.  They swap states (death for life) and her son is described as being dead long ago while the long dead egg comes to life.

I love this. Very nice.

The many associations of Tywin with stench and odor have made me suspect for a long time that he has been suffering a similar condition of undiagnosed death. I wonder whether he was sacrificed (maybe he even sacrificed himself) for someone that he wanted to restore to life?

[LynnS]

18 minutes ago, Seams said:

I love this. Very nice.

The many associations of Tywin with stench and odor have made me suspect for a long time that he has been suffering a similar condition of undiagnosed death. I wonder whether he was sacrificed (maybe he even sacrificed himself) for someone that he wanted to restore to life?

There is also a certain word play of 'waking' the dragon.  I'm reminded that Mirri Maaz Duur sings a funeral dirge while waking the old powers.

I'm convinced that the dragon with three heads is Martin's version of a triune god.  One that combines body (Drogon), mind (Dany) and soul (Rhaegar).  Another version of the triune god would be Bloodraven and his three 'prentice boys: Bran, Arya and Jon.

Not sure about Tywin except for the speculation that Oberyn gave him a slow poison and he was dying before Tyrion put a bolt in him..

[Seams]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

There is also a certain word play of 'waking' the dragon.  I'm reminded that Mirri Maaz Duur sings a funeral dirge while waking the old powers.

Excellent. So "wake" in the sense of holding a vigil for someone who died. If only death can pay for life, there would be a wake at every awakening.

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, Seams said:

Excellent. So "wake" in the sense of holding a vigil for someone who died. If only death can pay for life, there would be a wake at every awakening.

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"I hit him," she said, wonder in her voice. Now that it was over, it seemed like some strange dream that she had dreamed. "Ser Jorah, do you think … he'll be so angry when he gets back …" She shivered. "I woke the dragon, didn't I?"

Ser Jorah snorted. "Can you wake the dead, girl? Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon, and he died on the Trident. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake."

Yes, apparently she can wake the dead:

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A Storm of Swords - Daenerys III

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

According to the Damphair, memories are the bones of the soul.  She dreams of the future, but a part of her remembers the past. Who's nightmare? Who's memory?

[Lady Anna]

In Clash of Kings, Sansa VI:

"Tears," she said scornfully to Sansa as the woman was led from the hall. "The woman's weapon, my lady mother used to call them. The man's weapon is a sword. And that tells us all you need to know, doesn't it?"

In Feast, Sansa I, when she has to tell (lie to) Lord Nestor about what happened to Lysa:

"I saw . . . I was with the Lady Lysa when . . ." A tear rolled down her cheek. That's good, a tear is good. ". . . when Marillion . . . pushed her." And she told the tale again, hardly hearing the words as they spilled out of her.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, Lady Anna said:

In Clash of Kings, Sansa VI:

"Tears," she said scornfully to Sansa as the woman was led from the hall. "The woman's weapon, my lady mother used to call them. The man's weapon is a sword. And that tells us all you need to know, doesn't it?"

In Feast, Sansa I, when she has to tell (lie to) Lord Nestor about what happened to Lysa:

"I saw . . . I was with the Lady Lysa when . . ." A tear rolled down her cheek. That's good, a tear is good. ". . . when Marillion . . . pushed her." And she told the tale again, hardly hearing the words as they spilled out of her.

Nice!