Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[The Fattest Leech]

15 minutes ago, Seams said:

I keep thinking about this. This is really good.

I suspect this connection between dragon's eggs and selling one's manhood - cutting off balls, juggling balls - may be a really key piece of evidence in sorting out who has dragon's eggs or dragons, or how to hatch an egg once it is obtained.

Quite awhile ago, I wondered why we were given the story of Quentyn "Fireball" Ball and Glendon Flowers in such great detail. I thought it had something to do with juggling and with the "death" of Quentyn Martell who is burned in a fireball generated by a dragon. But exactly what GRRM was doing with balls and juggling was unclear. Now I can see that it has to do with obtaining an egg. The role of Glendon Flowers in the Dunk & Egg story becomes much more meaningful. The role of Bloodraven in killing Quentyn Ball also takes on deeper meaning.

The lines you uncovered help to connect more of the dots: now we know that there is a price paid to buy an egg, and the price is to sacrifice one's balls. But I bet the ball metaphor is also part of the "game" of thrones - the person with the ball can score; everyone else plays defense.

Maybe also this? This is totally something I want to see happen by story's end.

A Game of Thrones - Jon III

Alliser Thorne overheard him. "Lord Snow wants to take my place now." He sneered. "I'd have an easier time teaching a wolf to juggle than you will training this aurochs."

"I'll take that wager, Ser Alliser," Jon said. "I'd love to see Ghost juggle."

Jon heard Grenn suck in his breath, shocked. Silence fell.

[Seams]

17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Maybe also this? This is totally something I want to see happen by story's end.

A Game of Thrones - Jon III

Alliser Thorne overheard him. "Lord Snow wants to take my place now." He sneered. "I'd have an easier time teaching a wolf to juggle than you will training this aurochs."

"I'll take that wager, Ser Alliser," Jon said. "I'd love to see Ghost juggle."

Jon heard Grenn suck in his breath, shocked. Silence fell.

Exactly! I found an old post that tried to sort out the juggling connection:

 

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

Inside were more bodies; a groom she had played with, and three of her father's household guard. A wagon, laden with crates and chests, stood abandoned near the door of the stable. The dead men must have been loading it for the trip to the docks when they were attacked. Arya snuck closer. One of the corpses was Desmond, who'd shown her his longsword and promised to protect her father. He lay on his back, staring blindly at the ceiling as flies crawled across his eyes. Close to him was a dead man in the red cloak and lion-crest helm of the Lannisters. Only one, though. Every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, Desmond had told her. "You liar!" she said, kicking his body in a sudden fury.

 

Quote

"But such a battle!" said Theon Greyjoy eagerly. "My lady, the realm has not seen such a victory since the Field of Fire. I vow, the Lannisters lost ten men for every one of ours that fell. We've taken close to a hundred knights captive, and a dozen lords bannermen. Lord Westerling, Lord Banefort, Ser Garth Greenfield, Lord Estren, Ser Tytos Brax, Mallor the Dornishman … and three Lannisters besides Jaime, Lord Tywin's own nephews, two of his sister's sons and one of his dead brother's …"

Desmond wan't lying after all. In similar circumstances(actually, with much better odds), Lannisters actually lost ten men for every northerner(and riverlander).

 

Jaime had 2000 or so men against Robb's 6000,  Cersei had possibly 80(20 of 100 with her) of her guards against 15 or fewer of Ned's(20-21 with Beric, 4 goes with Lady's Remains, 3 dies against Jaime 8 with Ned in throne room)

A Northerner is indeed  worth more than southron swords it seems.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

Desmond wan't lying after all. In similar circumstances(actually, with much better odds), Lannisters actually lost ten men for every northerner(and riverlander).

 

Jaime had 2000 or so men against Robb's 6000,  Cersei had possibly 80(20 of 100 with her) of her guards against 15 or fewer of Ned's(20-21 with Beric, 4 goes with Lady's Remains, 3 dies against Jaime 8 with Ned in throne room)

A Northerner is indeed  worth more than southron swords it seems.

Nice. 

[Lady Anna]

I had completely forgotten about this:

''Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"

"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."

". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do."

 

But also the next lines:

 

She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords."

 

- Cersei IV, Feast

[divica]

12 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

I had completely forgotten about this:

''Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"

"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."

". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do."

 

But also the next lines:

 

She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords."

 

- Cersei IV, Feast

I think if jon's stabbing was related to cersei's men we would have some indication os a group of men arriving to the watch or maybe men sent by the crown. It seems cersei wants credit for sending the men...

Is this before or after they sent jeyne poole north?

[Lady Anna]

1 hour ago, divica said:

I think if jon's stabbing was related to cersei's men we would have some indication os a group of men arriving to the watch or maybe men sent by the crown. It seems cersei wants credit for sending the men...

Is this before or after they sent jeyne poole north?

Oh I wasn't trying to make a connection between the two quotes. I had just forgotten that Cersei meant to send 100 men led by Osney to kill Jon. It didn't happen because of her arrest.

The second line was Cersei thinking about it which is funny considering what did happen to Jon independently of her actions.

This was after they sent Jeyne.

[divica]

1 hour ago, Lady Anna said:

Oh I wasn't trying to make a connection between the two quotes. I had just forgotten that Cersei meant to send 100 men led by Osney to kill Jon. It didn't happen because of her arrest.

The second line was Cersei thinking about it which is funny considering what did happen to Jon independently of her actions.

This was after they sent Jeyne.

So she didn t have time for sending the men off page before being arrested?

[Walda]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

So she didn t have time for sending the men off page before being arrested?

I looked into this last month (for a reply in Richard Hoffman's 'For the Watch' thread).

In Ch.10 Jon III Stannis converts the wildlings and burns their king, and Jon has learnt that Lord Tywin is dead.  So Jon III in ADwD is roughly the same time as Cersei III in AFfC.

Cersei's order to send the men to the wall is given in Feast for Crows Ch.17 Cersei IV, before she seduced Kettleblack into acting as an unlikely honeytrap for Margarey, before she gave Qyburn the puppeteers, before she sent Balman to deal with Bronn, before Ser Gyles died.

At the same meeting, they drop a lot of time-line cues for the arcs of other povs, including the mention that Slynt has informed them that Stannis is trying to convert the wildlings at the wall, and that, 'just this morning' they had received a letter from Lord Manderley informing them that he had received and imprisoned Davos, asking them what he should do with the prisoner. Cersei sends back the order to remove his head. This is long before her arrest by the faith, so it is very likely her order to send the 100 insurgents to the wall had been put into action before Cersei was arrested.

Cersei also mentions "“Lord Eddard’s younger daughter is with Lord Bolton, and will be wed to his son Ramsay as soon as Moat Cailin has fallen." and “Lord Eddard’s younger daughter is with Lord Bolton, and will be wed to his son Ramsay as soon as Moat Cailin has fallen.” and "I have decided to defer our repayment of the sums owed the Holy Faith and the Iron Bank of Braavos until war’s end.” so they can build their Royal Navy.

This places Cersei's information a little after Jon's in Ch.17 Jon IV of A Dance with Dragons. He notes Ramsay and Bolton have not marched on Moat Calin, but Ramsey has gone south with Hothor umber. At the wall they have heard no word from Davos, don't know if he has arrived at Whiteharbor  Arnolf Karstark has seen fierce storms on the narrow sea, Balon is spoken of as alive, Deepwood Motte as taken by Ironborn.

In Ch.24 Cersei V, Feast For Crows, Cersei hears about the progress of her first three dromonds, and of Davos's head and hands displayed on the walls of White Harbor. She dispatches Wendal to his father. Roose and Ramsey are converging on Moat Cailin from the North and South, Ironborn still hold Deepwood Motte, although Cersei believes the Boltons are goign to attack there and Torrhen's square next.  Lord Gyles refuses payment to Noho Dimittus of the Iron Bank. Loras gets her nose out of joint by instructing Tommen, Jaime puts it further out by suggesting it is a good notion. She gives Qyburn his puppeteers, and Ser Balman the quest of putting down Bronn. The sparrows still infest Kings Landing, but there is no mention of the High Sparrow. In Ch.28 Cersei IV, Cersei meets with the High Sparrow.

In Dance with Dragons Ch. 21 Jon V: Eastwatch reports shipwreck on Skagos "Whether the broken ship was Blackbird, one of Stannis Baratheon’s sellsails, or some passing trader, the crew of the Storm Crow had not been able to discern." One possibility among the many is that this is what has become of Cersei's hundred men destined for the wall.

Dance with Dragons Ch.28 Jon VI: Jon gets his wedding invite from Ramsay, informing him Moat Cailin is taken, and Roose summons "all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son’s wedding"

From Ch.32 Cersei VII, the hints connecting her to the Wall time-line are vaguer, and the timeline works more and more on co-ordinating with time-lines like Sansa's, Theon's and Sams, that are also kept hazy when it come to making connections between events at King's Landing and the Wall. We learn the Iron Fleet have descended on the Shield Islands. The Freys and half a dozen Northern houses have rallied to the Boltons, Loras leaves in Sweet Cersei, Falyse tells of her husband's end and is taken away by Qyburn. In Cersie VIII, Euron is in Whispering Sound, Loras is victorious at Dragonstone,  and a ship delivers oranges from Dorne. The merchants of Kings Landing are complaining that the Iron Bank is closing on them, Ser Gyles is too weak to leave his bed. By Cersei IX he is dead.  The Vale is too unsettled for Cersei to consider recalling Petyr Baelish to King's Landing, Jamie and Ser Illyn Payne have left for the Riverlands. Cersei is finally snared by the High Sparrow in Ch.43 Cersei X of Feast for Crows. Ser Harys and Pycelle call Kevan to King's Landing to be Regent, and dismiss that part of Cersei's council that hasn't fled. Qyburn tells Cersei that Pycelle believes Aurane is now a pirate in the Stepstones, and the Merryweathers have returned to Longtable.

In Dance with Dragons, the time-line links are concealed, even obliterated, by the narcississm of Cersei's point of view. We learn from Kevan that Jamie has refused to answer his sister's summons, the way Kevan promptly answered Pycelle's. Thanks to Kevan we learn Jaime went off with Brienne on his way back from Raventree; The gold company and Aegon begin thier assult, landing at Tarth, Stepstones, Cape Wrath;  Mace is in King's Landing, Randyll Tarly too. He even tells Cersei Myrcella has lost her ear, Arys is slain, Qyburn is still in charge of the dungeons.

In the second Cersei chapter, we have no such expository character to help us along. There might be subtle things to pick up from the people who block her path and sell pies or whatever, but all that I can pick up is that Boros and Meryn have reappeared at Kevan's Red Keep (they had mysteriously disappeared in the previous Cersei chapter, last positively sighted by Cersei in her final chapter in AFfC, Meryn in the yard of the Red Keep, and Boros at the head of Cersei's tail, left with his sword outside the Great Sept.)  I suppose these at least provide context for clues in other PoV's that mention things that allow us to link them to events at the wall...eg. Kevan sees Cersei some time after her walk of Shame, and witnesses the white winter raven in King's Landing the same day- presumably a white winter raven was sent to the Wall as well, although if that happened before Jon was stabbed, Clydas had not informed Jon, and Jon had not noticed.

From A Dance with Dragon's Jon VII, the action at the wall heads North and all his broad strategic vision is taken up in issues that prevent him looking below the Neck and giving us direct links to what is happening in King's Landing. We learn that Stannis has taken Deepwood Motte and Alysanne Mormont has burnt Balon's fleet in the North. Roose is heading to Winterfell for the wedding, but has not got there yet.

In Jon VIII, Val goes off on what is apparently a month-long mission to find Tormund (at least, they will meet again under the 'first night' of the next full moon). Selyse announces she is travelling from Eastwatch to the Nightfort. In Jon IX, Selyse arrives with Tycho Nestorious, and suggests they send a raven to Stannis at Deepwood Motte to say she will be at the Nightfort. She only intends to stay a few days. Nestorious tells Jon Cersei has failed to pay the Iron Throne repayments. Jon tells Tycho "“When last we heard, His Grace was marching on Winterfell to confront Lord Bolton and his allies. You may seek him there if you wish, "...“I can provide you with horses, provisions, guides, whatever is required to get you as far as Deepwood Motte. From there you will need to make your own way to Stannis.” Tycho had not seen Sam at Braavos, has heard of strange ships sighted in the Stepstones (perhaps the Golden Company, not Salladhor Saan)"No, these other sails … from farther east, perhaps … one hears queer talk of dragons.”. "Lord Redwyne’s war fleet creeps through the Broken Arm [of Dorne] as well." It is far from definitive, but it is possible this information matches Ch.32 Cersei VII in Feast for Crows.

In Jon X, Stannis has left Deepwood Motte, and Tycho has left Castle Black in search of him, but Selyse is still there, perhaps delayed by the weather. Whether Melisandre is looking for Stannis or Mance she sees “The same, I fear. Only snow.”
Snow. It was snowing heavily to the south, Jon knew. Only two days’ ride from here, the kingsroad was said to be impassable. Melisandre knows that too. And to the east, a savage storm was raging on the Bay of Seals. Also, confusingly, a raven arrives from Eastwatch to assure them there were "Calm seas today. Eleven ships set sail for Hardhome on the morning tide." Jon is troubled to learn that Glendon Hewett is in command of Eastwatch now because the guy is a friend of Alisers, and "a crony of sorts with Janos Slynt" Val returns with Tormund, so presumably this is the night of the full moon.

In Jon XI, with a distinct lack of positive information, Jon wonders about where people are to himself. Cottor Pyke might be at Hardhome by now, Mance might have found Arya. Ser Denys writes of great camps of Wildlings massing near the Shadow Tower. We do learn that Tormund will be coming to Castle Black in three days time.

Jon XII starts before dawn three days later, when Tormund arrives.  The day dawns bright, warm and sunny, the wall weeps. But in the afternoon the clouds roll in, and it is snowing by the time Borroq, the last of them, comes through and they close the gate at dusk. A letter from Cottor Pyke confirms he is at Hardhome, and the Braavosi vessells Tycho loaned them are still with him. He mentions the seas are wracked by storms.

 Jon XIII back to wondering "Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?” There are no answers. Between this and the last Jon chapter, Tormund has had enough time to establish himself and his men at Oakenshield. Selyse is still there, planning more marriages. Weather is heavy snow and rising wind at Castle Black that day, but not before a wet raven delivers the Pink Letter and all it's glorious contradictions.

As you can see, there is plenty of time for Cersei's men to have got to the wall (especially by ship, so much faster than overland) but there have been plenty of storms and pirates and so on to delay them as long as their author needs them delayed on the Narrow Sea. There is also room for them to have arrived without Jon's knowledge. The Castellan of Eastwatch is a friend of Alliser and Slynt, and they might be ready to secure Castle Black (or at least Eastwatch) against the Wildlings and Stannis and so on, and ensure that Alliser becomes the 999th Lord Commander.

Or Jon might have no hint of their coming, or of their arrival, because his timeline could have finished well ahead of Cersei's - up to two or three months ahead (because the wall gets colder sooner than King's Landing).

---

 

On 1/8/2018 at 10:08 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Wonder if, in an effort to sow further chaos and confusion with this double murder, Varys has placed the lineage book which led Ned and Jon Arryn to their conclusions about Cersei’s children open at Pycelle’s desk. I’m sure those who find the body would be interested to know what he was reading when he died. And if it’s evidence against Tommen legitimacy then fingers will point to Cersei whether she has an alibi or not

I have long suspected that the book is Malleon, but I have never realised it would point fingers at Cersei. Which of course it would, after her Walk of Shame and Stannis's pamphlet, whether it was actually evidence against Tommen's legitimacy or not.

Malleon is described as a tome five times. Other books are described as tomes only once or twice:  -Erotic Adventures in a Lysene Pillowhouse once,  -Blood and Fire/Death of Dragons once, unless it is also the huge tome about dragons that made them seem as dull as newts to Arianne. Sansa calls The Lives of Four Kings a tome twice in the one chapter. Davos generically labels the books he is learning to read from 'tomes', regardless of their size or contents. He unironically describes King Daeron's book as 'a slender tome' (although I detect heavy irony in his author).

Malleon's book is described also as 'ponderous', 'great', 'massive': these are synonymous with/identical to 'great'.; Arya notes it is 'bound between faded leather covers'. These attributes are not so strongly associated with Malleon as the word 'tome' does, though. Even 'tome' is not uniquely definitive. 'Tome' typically implies a scholarly book of some heft, one that usually also has superior binding.  Expensive leather-bound books are far more common than books in boards or wooden covers, in Westeros. 

Malleon is also a tome that we know is in Pycelle's possession (in fact, the only tome we know him to have possessed).  However, we could assume the Grand Arch-Maester, would have a whole library of great leather-bound tomes of varying dustiness, given the many quotes he makes of books. I wonder how Malleon came to be returned to Maester Pycelle after the demise of the lenders - did Eddard sent it back via Vayon Poole as soon as he had jotted down the references he felt he needed? Did Janos Slynt deliver it to Petyr Baelish to return to Pycelle with a smirk and a mischievous lie? Or did Cersei return it? Or one of her servants? I don't think Tyrion would simply give it to a servant to take back, if he found it in Ned's solar - he is too interested in books himself, and was looking for devices to help him manipulate Pycelle. Maybe one of Vary's little birds swooped in to claim it? They are like that, and Varys clearly has at least as much covert access to Pycelle's solar as Tyrion, or rather more.

Maybe Pycelle retrieved it himself. It isn't the first time he has got the book back from a dead man. That is the other thing that is strongly associated with Malleon - read it and die. Petyr Baelish seems to be the only person that is still alive after turning the first page. The scenarios I have come up with to explain the deadliness of this book rationally all seem unnecessarily convoluted - we know there are little birds around this book all the time, but it seems a bit much that they would be obliged to kill everyone they saw reading it. Poisoned powder on the pages a la Name of the Rose is a real possibility when Varys is involved, with his well powdered hands that smell like funeral flowers. But Lysa confessed to giving Jon Tears of Lys and while Jon's symptoms seem more like Hoster Tully's than what we know of Tears of Lys, both Varys and Pycelle seem to believe Tears of Lys were a likely option, and both of them have had experience on their side, and first hand knowledge. Ned's head was definitively chopped off. He might also have been poisoned (that leg that woudn't heal right, the fever, etc.) but it seems excessively subtle and contrived to have him poisoned as well.

Pycelle seems in reasonably good health - although his beard won't grow back and his forarm is flabby, and Cersei noticed he was looking really old when he came in to announce the death of Gyles Rosby. I would have thought Pycelle might be difficult to poison, because he knows poisons, suspects Jon Arryn was posioned, and seems cautious and particular about his food. That was before Tyrion supposedly (and actaully) raided his supply, before Joffrey's demise, that might have put him further on guard (although Tyrion's actual theft of the laxative was never detected, and the theft Pycelle fingered Tyrion for, was committed by Varys)

Yet he still eats it in the same chamber where he (still!) stores his unlocked neatly labelled poisons on open shelves. And the 'sweet child' that prepares his milk and honey was likely one of Varys's birds all along (although, I suppose Kevan is not to know if Pycelle's servant is the same girl as always, or another. Kevan wasn't observant enough to see anything odd about small common children swathed in furs that were not only too big for them, but too sumptuous for them to have gained honestly - only Nobles and wildlings can afford to wear fur).

But just like Ned Stark's death, the hit to the head with the candle-stick seems a perfectly sufficient explanation for Pycelle's untimely end. There doesn't seem any need to disguise a slow poisoning. Also, unlike Ned and Jon,  Pycelle has possessed the book some time - it isn't likely he has  just reached the bit the children have to kill him for, for the first time, today. And how would they know what he had or had not read? He is old and might have read Malleon back to back twenty times before they were even born. He might have had Malleon before Varys arrived from across the Narrow sea. And in order to know that Malleon had a bit worth dying for, Varys and/or his birds would have had to have read it themselves.

But I do think Ned was reading Malleon to a different purpose than Jon Arryn. Ned was looking for guilt, and we know that neither Gared nor Lady strictly deserved the punishment he gave them, in spite of his  looking into their eyes, hearing their pleas, passing their sentence, and swinging his sword. Jon was not looking for a murderer, He had brought Cersei and Robert together and saw the value of keeping them together. He had seen at least one, and far more probably, several, of Robert's bastards for himself. He was not looking for reasons to exile Lannisters. Sansa was able to see Eddard's 'proof' of Malleon's book without ever reading it, and it seems unlikely she would be the only or the first person to observe that Joffrey looked nothing like Robert Baratheon, or any Baratheon, while Edric and Renly looked like carbon copies of Robert, and people of Pycelle's age could affirm that Robert was the exact likeness of his grandparents and great-grandparents.

Jon Arryn was interested in breeding and desperately wanted a spare for his heir. He might have suspected the heir he had was not his natural child. We learn from Malleon that in Westeros the colour of your eyes and hair can be a sign you are endowed with supernatural properties. For the blue eyed black haired Baratheons it is superhuman strength. For the brown eyed and fine brown haired Strongs too. The emerald eyes and curly gold hair of the Lannisters are associated with greensight. The purple eyes and inhuman beauty of the Targaryens with dragon riding and their own types of vision, and terrible tempers. Arryns might also have an ancestral superpower. 

Still, as Eddard saw, Malleon makes Cersei look less innocent - and people are ready to seize on anything that makes her look more guilty. But Pycelle might not be reading it for that. Pycelle might be consulting Malleon to determine the merits of the various claims to the Rosby inheritance (he says there are six known claims. The ones I know of are -Cersei claiming it for the Tommen and the Crown, -Rosby's ward, -Bronn via Lollys Stokeworth, - Lord Perwyn (and if he dies, Olyver Frey, and if he dies, Roslin Tully). Falyse mentions her mother is third cousin to Gyles Rosby, which hints that his nearest blood-heirs descend from the great-great-great-grandparent they share (and perhaps there are other pretenders to the inheritance from one of the fifteen great-great-great-grandparents that they don't have in common, too.) Falyse also mentions Rosby had two wives, but if he did not gain Rosby by marriage to one of them, their relatives should make no difference. If he did, perhaps there is some unusual kind of heir of tailzee situation that makes Lady Tanda being the aunt of his second wife as significant as Falyse seems to think it is. But Pycelle, staunch son of the Patriarchy that he is, is more likely to pull out his Malleon and work his way through the tails of all the Rosby heirs that died in the Great Sickness of 209, or lived in the age of Aegon the Unworthy.

Malleon is also described as 'brittle yellow pages', 'over a century old', 'dusty', 'cracked yellow pages of cribbed script, bound between faded leather covers', 'damnable', 'tedious reading','a sleeping potion'. That last is foreshadowing, I think. It also has a lot of properties in common with the book Roose threw into the fire at Harrenhal.

[Corvo the Crow]

Posted in some other thread before, but it fits in here also so here it goes;

 

Quote

"Come," urged Melisandre. "Come to the light … or run back to the darkness." In the pit below her, the fire was crackling. "If you choose life, come to me."

And they came. Slowly at first, some limping or leaning on their fellows, the captives began to emerge from their rough-hewn pen. If you would eat, come to me, Jon thought. If you would not freeze or starve, submit. Hesitant, wary of some trap, the first few prisoners edged across the planks and through the ring of the stakes, toward Melisandre and the Wall. More followed, when they saw that no harm had come to those who went before. Then more, until it was a steady stream. Queen's men in studded jacks and halfhelms handed each passing man, woman, or child a piece of white weirwood: a stick, a splintered branch as pale as broken bone, a spray of blood-red leaves. A piece of the old gods to feed the new. Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand.

 

The heat from the fire pit was palpable even at a distance; for the wildlings, it had to be blistering. He saw men cringing as they neared the flames, heard children cry. A few turned for the forest. He watched a young woman stumble away with a child on either hand. Every few steps she looked back to make certain no one was coming after them, and when she neared the trees she broke into a run. One greybeard took the weirwood branch they handed him and used it as a weapon, laying about with it until the queen's men converged on him with spears. The others had to step around his body, until Ser Corliss had it thrown in the fire. More of the free folk chose the woods after that—one in ten, perhaps.

But most came on. Behind them was only cold and death. Ahead was hope. They came on, clutching their scraps of wood until the time came to feed them to the flames. R'hllor was a jealous deity, ever hungry. So the new god devoured the corpse of the old, and cast gigantic shadows of Stannis and Melisandre upon the Wall, black against the ruddy red reflections on the ice.

Sigorn was the first to kneel before the king. The new Magnar of Thenn was a younger, shorter version of his father—lean, balding, clad in bronze greaves and a leather shirt sewn with bronze scales. Next came Rattleshirt in clattering armor made of bones and boiled leather, his helm a giant's skull. Under the bones lurked a ruined and wretched creature with cracked brown teeth and a yellow tinge to the whites of his eyes. A small, malicious, treacherous man, as stupid as he is cruel. Jon did not believe for a moment that he would keep faith. He wondered what Val was feeling as she watched him kneel, forgiven.

Lesser leaders followed. Two clan chiefs of the Hornfoot men, whose feet were black and hard. An old wisewoman revered by the peoples of the Milkwater. A scrawny dark-eyed boy of two-and-ten, the son of Alfyn Crowkiller. Halleck, brother to Harma Dogshead, with her pigs. Each took a knee before the king.

It is too cold for this mummer's show, thought Jon. "The free folk despise kneelers," he had warned Stannis. "Let them keep their pride, and they will love you better." His Grace would not listen. He said, "It is swords I need from them, not kisses."

Having knelt, the wildlings shuffled past the ranks of the black brothers to the gate. Jon had detailed Horse and Satin and half a dozen others to lead them through the Wall with torches. On the far side, bowls of hot onion soup awaited them, and chunks of black bread and sausage. Clothes as well: cloaks, breeches, boots, tunics, good leather gloves. They would sleep on piles of clean straw, with fires blazing to keep the chill of night at bay. This king was nothing if not methodical. Soon or late, however, Tormund Giantsbane would assault the Wall again, and when that hour came Jon wondered whose side Stannis's new-made subjects would choose. You can give them land and mercy, but the free folk choose their own kings, and it was Mance they chose, not you.

 

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The Lord Steward led the way. Jon rode a few yards back, Dolorous Edd Tollett at his side. Half a mile south of Castle Black, Edd urged his garron close to Jon's and said, "M'lord? Look up there. The big drunkard on the hill."

The drunkard was an ash tree, twisted sideways by centuries of wind. And now it had a face. A solemn mouth, a broken branch for a nose, two eyes carved deep into the trunk, gazing north up the kingsroad, toward the castle and the Wall.

The wildlings brought their gods with them after all. Jon was not surprised. Men do not give up their gods so easily. The whole pageant that Lady Melisandre had orchestrated beyond the Wall suddenly seemed as empty as a mummer's farce. "Looks a bit like you, Edd," he said, trying to make light of it.

 

 

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"You might have sent the women first," he said to Tormund. "The mothers and the maids."

The wildling gave him a shrewd look. "Aye, I might have. And you crows might decide to close that gate. A few fighters on t'other side, well, that way the gate stays open, don't it?" He grinned. "I bought your bloody horse, Jon Snow. Don't mean that we can't count his teeth. Now don't you go thinking me and mine don't trust you. We trust you just as much as you trust us." He snorted. "You wanted warriors, didn't you? Well, there they are. Every one worth six o' your black crows."

Jon had to smile. "So long as they save those weapons for our common foe, I am content."

"Gave you my word on it, didn't I? The word of Tormund Giantsbane. Strong as iron, 'tis." He turned and spat.

 

Amongst the stream of warriors were the fathers of many of Jon's hostages. Some stared with cold dead eyes as they went by, fingering their sword hilts. Others smiled at him like long-lost kin, though a few of those smiles discomfited Jon Snow more than any glare. None knelt, but many gave him their oaths. "What Tormund swore, I swear," declared black-haired Brogg, a man of few words. Soren Shieldbreaker bowed his head an inch and growled, "Soren's axe is yours, Jon Snow, if ever you have need of such." Red-bearded Gerrick Kingsblood brought three daughters. "They will make fine wives, and give their husbands strong sons of royal blood," he boasted. "Like their father, they are descended from Raymun Redbeard, who was King-Beyond-the-Wall."

Blood meant little and less amongst the free folk, Jon knew. Ygritte had taught him that. Gerrick's daughters shared her same flame-red hair, though hers had been a tangle of curls and theirs hung long and straight. Kissed by fire. "Three princesses, each lovelier than the last," he told their father. "I will see that they are presented to the queen." Selyse Baratheon would take to these three better than she had to Val, he suspected; they were younger and considerably more cowed. Sweet enough to look at them, though their father seems a fool.

Howd Wanderer swore his oath upon his sword, as nicked and pitted a piece of iron as Jon had ever seen. Devyn Sealskinner presented him with a sealskin hat, Harle the Huntsman with a bear-claw necklace. The warrior witch Morna removed her weirwood mask just long enough to kiss his gloved hand and swear to be his man or his woman, whichever he preferred. And on and on and on.

 

Stannis doesn't give wildlings any other chance between death or humiliation (well he doesn't kill them but letting them free beyond the Wall is also certain death). He forces the wildlings to bend the knee, swear fealty and convert to red rahlooism and as soon as he's gone, they are back to their old ways, carving faces on trees.

Jon, on the other hand doesn't force them to kneel, swear him fealty or give up their old gods.In return they(Tormund as their representative) give their word to keep the peace, some of the fathers whose sons he took hostage give him bad looks but many more swear him fealty out of their own volition, giving him gifts and oaths, "unbowed, unbent, unbroken", if you will.

[Lady Anna]

14 hours ago, divica said:

So she didn t have time for sending the men off page before being arrested?

They may have sent the men to the Wall without Osney (he was going to be sent after being caught sleeping with Margaery). I don't know why I thought they couldn't go with him. It was my assumption that he would be part of the group since his specific role would be to kill Jon and that's why they're sending the men north in the first place.

If they did go, then it may be that Jon's pov ended before they got to the Wall. Or they died in the way and are completely irrelevant.

[Yukle]

I never noticed until I read @Megorova's post on another thread:

Jahaerys, Viserys, Aerys, Danaerys... Varys!

Varys has an obviously Valyrian name! This is no doubt been done to death in the theories that he is a Blackfyre but I've seen so many of those threads about secret Blackfyres, Targs and illegitimate children that I zoned out.  

[Lady Dacey]

3 hours ago, Yukle said:

I never noticed until I read @Megorova's post on another thread:

Jahaerys, Viserys, Aerys, Danaerys... Varys!

Varys has an obviously Valyrian name! This is no doubt been done to death in the theories that he is a Blackfyre but I've seen so many of those threads about secret Blackfyres, Targs and illegitimate children that I zoned out.  

Is Aerys Oakhaert also a secret Targaeryan? What about Rhaegar Frey? I don't think names prove much... 

[Yukle]

6 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Is Aerys Oakhaert also a secret Targaeryan? What about Rhaegar Frey? I don't think names prove much... 

I didn't say it makes him a secret Targ, just that I never noticed he has a Valyrian name. Might explain his shaved head; he may have platinum white hair.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

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"Qarth itself is hers, she has no need of baubles," blue-lipped Pyat Pree sang out from the other side. "It shall be as I promised, Khaleesi. Come with me to the House of the Undying, and you shall drink of truth and wisdom."
"Why should she need your Palaces of Dust, when I can give her sunlight and sweet water and silks to sleep in?" Xaro said to the warlock. "The Thirteen shall set a crown of black jade and fire opals upon her lovely head." (Dany II, Clash 27)

I never noticed what Xaro says about the House of the Undying.

[Lady Anna]

[Euron:] "Why, it has been done before. Did Balon teach his girl so little of the ways of war? Victarion, our brother's daughter has never heard of Aegon the Conqueror, it would seem."

- The Drowned Man, Feast

Just noticed this is the same expression Dany uses in Meeren, about herself (I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of war). And this is also the chapter where we first learn Euron knows about her and her dragons.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

Mance and Craster may be cousins of a sort

 

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Benjen Stark frowned. "A boy you are, and a boy you'll remain until Ser Alliser says you are fit to be a man of the Night's Watch. If you thought your Stark blood would win you easy favors, you were wrong. We put aside our old families when we swear our vows. Your father will always have a place in my heart, but these are my brothers now." He gestured with his dagger at the men around them, all the hard cold men in black.

...

Sam looked around anxiously, but Craster had not returned to the hall. If he had, things might have grown ugly. The wildling hated bastards, though the rangers said he was baseborn himself, fathered on a wildling woman by some long-dead crow.

...

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

...

Gerrick is the true and rightful king of the wildlings," the queen said, "descended in an unbroken male line from their great king Raymun Redbeard, whereas the usurper Mance Rayder was born of some common woman and fathered by one of your black brothers."

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

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Catelyn studied the faces. The Father was bearded, as ever. The Mother smiled, loving and protective. The Warrior had his sword sketched in beneth his face, the Smith his hammer. The Maid was beautiful, the Crone wizened and wise.
And the seventh face . . . the Stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast, the wanderer from far placed, less and more than human, unknown and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes. It made Catelyn uneasy. (Catelyn IV, Clash 33)

I never noticed this description for the Stranger. It's really interesting when I think of other things that have been described with similar words.

[Walda]

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Catelyn frowned, vaguely uneasy. “How else could they make it look a natural death?” Behind her, Lord Robert shrieked with delight as one of the puppet knights sliced the other in half, spilling a flood of red sawdust onto the terrace. She glanced at her nephew and sighed. “The boy is utterly without discipline. He will never be strong enough to rule unless he is taken away from his mother for a time.”
“His lord father agreed with you,” said a voice at her elbow. She turned to behold Maester Colemon, a cup of wine in his hand.

(AGoT, Ch.40 Catelyn VII)

This is the first time I have noticed - Coleman didn't just happen along as the subject turned to his young charge, he had wanted to hear what Catelyn needed to talk about to her sister "Now", and he had stayed because he was particularly interested in hearing whether Catelyn thought the Lannisters had done it. His interruption shows he was keen to turn the subject at that point, too.

[Corvo the Crow]

It's not something too good but I have never noticed this

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"Robert would have done it in ten," Asha heard Lord Fell boasting. His grandsire had been slain by Robert at Summerhall; somehow this had elevated his slayer to godlike prowess in the grandson's eyes. "Robert would have been inside Winterfell a fortnight ago, thumbing his nose at Bolton from the battlements."

"Best not mention that to Stannis," suggested Justin Massey, "or he'll have us marching nights as well as days."

This king lives in his brother's shadow, Asha thought.

Even Asha notices that Stannis is living in Robert's shadow, poor guy.

It seems aproppriate then, that Stannis uses shadows (though unknowingly) for killing Renly who people think as a much  younger Robert.