U.S. Politics 2017: You Flynn Some, You Lose Some

[Mexal]

1 minute ago, Morpheus said:

Trump is now sharing anti-Muslim videos from the fascist group Britain First. But, hey, what do the president's personal views and endorsements matter, right?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/29/trump-account-retweets-anti-muslim-videos-of-british-far-right-leader

Yes, anti-Muslim videos that don't actually show Muslims. This is particularly idiotic given we've had multiple mass murders in America in the last few months and not a single action from him or Congress to do anything about it. With all the sexual harassment stuff, it has been forgotten.

 

[Morpheus]

This is the President personally sharing videos meant to incite resentment and violence against a segment of the population. This along with his personally expressed bigoted views and his personal embrace of the entirely racist Birther conspiracy theory cannot be separated from his policies.

If he were an asshole who still believed in facts and let that guide him to sound policy that would be one thing. But what makes him an asshole is his mocking of truth and democratic norms, it is his elevation of fringe lunacy, it is his loud and insistent bigotry and race bating.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

47 minutes ago, Yukle said:

It's not a facade, although I don't deny that every public person would have on to some extent.

It's more, in the simplest terms, if somebody gave me $50 and then walked away, I'd be happy. If somebody gave me $50 while they were, with the other hand, fondling a woman's breasts, then I'd scream for the police and never accept anything from him again.

Suggesting that somehow his polices can be divorced from his policies is also disingenuous. A central feature of his platform is the racist and sexist dog-whistling he does for the worst in America. His refusal to condemn a KKK endorsement, claims Obama isn't American, boasts about fondling women being locker-room talk, endorsement of a child molester in Alabama, frequent bravado against North Korea - these aren't slip-ups, they are the cause of his success. He validates the people who marched with torches chanting, "Jews will not replace us," and is the last bastion of the Confederacy who never gave up slaves by choice. He is the literal angry white man crying about how hard life is when everybody else is jealous of his privileges.

If you remove those parts of his personality, he has no policies. He hasn't made any efforts to argue for anything much at all in terms of policy. Even his stupid wall was nothing but a racist dog-whistle, and once in power it went out the window like everything else. He has no policies beyond reversing what he sees as the tide of whites-no-longer-winning in America. Make no mistake, he believes white people are superior to others, which is why he was criminally convicted of discrimination in his hotels earlier in his life.

I agree with everything you wrote except the bolded. Trump doesn’t use dog-whistles, he’s using a megaphone. He’s not even trying to hind the underlying aspects of his racist, sexist and xenophobic messages.

I’d encourage you to look up Lee Atwater’s famous quote on dog whistles to see the difference.

[Yukle]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I agree with everything you wrote except the bolded. Trump doesn’t use dog-whistles, he’s using a megaphone.

Hahaha! Touché.  I concede this, both in terms of its principle and its delivery.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Unfortunately, it appears as if Moore has regained his lead in 3 new polls out of Alabama, so I take it he is the presumed front runner again. It isnt a slam dunk for him yet by any means, but I'd suggest everyone lower their expectations for this race.

The only silver lining I can think of is that he would be toxic to the Republican brand among the general (non-Alabama) population and may help Democrats in 2018.

Finally, Nancy Pelosi needs to get her head straight about how to tackle sexual harassment charges against Democrats. A no-tolerance policy is the moral way to go, politics be damned.

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Interesting argument. Does it really cover all Americans though?

Yes. 

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

And how does that requirement cater for politicians who support policies that will inevitably favor some citizens at the cost of others? For example, a progressive tax scale, which favors poor people over rich people, or medical insurance policies that achieve the same, etc. etc.

The President must balance the interests of the country and of the various different people that make it up, taking into consideration the scope, scale and extent of any damage against the benefits, looking to the bigger picture, and aiming to do the right thing. 

This is basic politics. It is what every elected representative does, on some scale, every day. It should not need explaining. 

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As I have said before, though, he has produced a conservative Supreme Court judge, and may produce another one before his term is up.

This is a bit like saying 'I turned up for work today, that's an achievement'. Trump did nothing except exercise the powers he holds due to an opportunity that arose for reasons that are nothing to do with him, his policies or his personal qualities. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Interesting argument. Does it really cover all Americans though? Including  the MS13 guys? Including illegal aliens who are not American citizens?

And how does that requirement cater for politicians who support policies that will inevitably favor some citizens at the cost of others? For example, a progressive tax scale, which favors poor people over rich people, or medical insurance policies that achieve the same, etc. etc.

Anyway, I don't want to make this an argument about who exactly a president should represent. I understand the point from which you are arguing. And I also agree with you that Trump is rather poor at achieving a lot of his stated goals. As I have said before, though, he has produced a conservative Supreme Court judge, and may produce another one before his term is up.

And if he becomes truly terrible, well, they can always get rid of him and replace him with Mike Pence or some other useful figurehead who can continue pursuing the policies Republicans are after.

As for Obama. I'd rather not go there. Views on him are as divergent as the political views that people hold.

Absolutely, the President only operates as the law allows.  Under the law he is the Chief Executive for everyone in the US, not just his Political constituants:
 

 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

The clue was in the fact that he continued to publicly insist that five (black) men who had been exonerated of a crime by a court of law were, in fact, guilty. It would be too much to expect that a guy like that would ever be able to accept that he might be wrong. 

I think the main clue was the first time he aggressively entered national politics, it was in pushing the Obama birth certificate mishegoss even after it became a joke among most conservatives.  But yeah, as others have said, him being a narcissist and charlatan has been on public display since about when I was born (mid-80s).  

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Does that really matter though? It seems doubtful to me that anyone who goes into politics is a nice person at heart. And that any appearance to the contrary is a carefully crafted façade.

As @Tywin et al. mentioned, this is an idiotic assumption.

2 hours ago, Ormond said:

"Pathological liar" is not as well-defined a concept in psychology as narcissist is.

And this depends on how much one's definition of lying rests on whether or not one believes the false things one says. I think Trump is so narcissistic that when he says something out loud, no matter how false in terms of its logic or evidence, he believes because he hears himself saying it, and he believes if he says it, it must be true. Which is why this morning's reporting shows he still believes that Obama's birth certificate is fake and that he really won the popular vote in the election. And pretty soon he will probably find some right wing racist site to retweet unverified videos of Hispanics doing bad things from, just as he did for Muslims this morning.

Good points, especially the bolded.  To me, that's also textbook compulsive liar, but yeah not my field.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Trump is having one hell of a morning on Twitter. After tweeting out a bunch of racist videos, now he is calling for an investigation into the death of a staffer of Joe Scarborough that happened 16 years ago. Scarborough or course was cleared of any wrong doing a long time ago.

It seriously feels like he’s beginning to have a mental breakdown, if it hasn’t already begun.

Also, he’s privately revived his birtherism claims, though I’m not sure any serious thinker took him at his word when he gave a short comment saying the issue was over just before the election when everyone around him was telling him that he had to do it.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Trump is having one hell of a morning on Twitter. After tweeting out a bunch of racist videos, now he is calling for an investigation into the death of a staffer of Joe Scarborough that happened 16 years ago. Scarborough or course was cleared of any wrong doing a long time ago.

Yeah, the staffer's death was heavily scrutinized at the time (and led to his resignation) and has been thoroughly investigated - not to mention brought up by Scarborough's political opponents throughout the past 16 years.  The unexplained trauma to her head is and always will be suspicious, but it's also pretty damn old hat for attacking Joe.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Yeah, the staffer's death was heavily scrutinized at the time (and led to his resignation) and has been thoroughly investigated - not to mention brought up by Scarborough's political opponents throughout the past 16 years.  The unexplained trauma to her head is and always will be suspicious, but it's also pretty damn old hat for attacking Joe.

I had heard about the event, but I didn’t know he resigned over it. Personally I wouldn’t have if I had done nothing wrong, and I thought he was cleared because he was out of the state when it happened. Still, the case is strange to say the least.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I had heard about the event, but I didn’t know he resigned over it.

Well, he didn't officially (gave the general "spending time with family" excuse), but he resigned two months after her death.  Scarborough was cleared (and indeed not possibly directly involved), but the suspicious nature of the staffer's death obviously meant it was going to be used in any future campaign.  Plus, he clearly had other ambitions.  Good thing too - without Scarborough Country we may never have gotten The Colbert Report.

[DMC]

So the latest JMC Analytics poll has Moore up by five (was Jones +4 two and a half weeks ago), and the latest Emerson poll has Moore up six (was Moore +10 two and a half weeks ago).  Gah!!!

[Morpheus]

Trump's endorsement was always going swing things,  the assaulter in chief giving his blessing to a pedo was all some people needed to feel good about their own choice.

[Mexal]

Fun times. Subpoenas have been granted for 23 Trump businesses in Emoluments case.

Quote

Subpoenas are being sent to 23 Trump businesses requiring them to preserve records that may be sought by the attorneys general from the District of Columbia and Maryland in a lawsuit accusing the president of profiting from his office.

U.S. District Judge Peter Messitte on Tuesday issued a two-paragraph order granting the Democratic officials’ request for permission to serve those subpoenas, which don’t call for the immediate production of any information.

DC Attorney General Karl Racine and his Maryland counterpart, Brian Frosh, contend the president’s continued ownership of his business empire -- including the Trump International Hotel in Washington -- enables him to make money from foreign and domestic governments, breaching two Constitutional clauses intended to prevent that.

Attorneys for President Donald Trump have asked the court to toss the emoluments case, arguing the states lack the legal injuries that would give them a right to sue. They also say the Constitution doesn’t cover presidents’ private business activities that are unrelated to their government service. Oral argument is set for Jan. 25.

Justice Department spokeswoman Lauren Ehrsam declined to comment on Messitte’s order. Government lawyers opposed the request in an October court filing, stating there should be no document discovery until the dismissal motion is decided, a position reflected by the limited court order issued Tuesday.

 

[Mexal]

Sequester part deux?

ETA: Daines, Murkowski and Johnson all say they'll vote yes. This is going to pass.

[DMC]

19 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Trump's endorsement was always going swing things

Indeed.  Or at least stabilize things/fortify regular partisanship.

10 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Fun times. Subpoenas have been granted for 23 Trump businesses in Emoluments case.

 

My favorite part is Trump's defense - "They also say the Constitution doesn’t cover presidents’ private business activities that are unrelated to their government service."  Um, way to miss the point of the clause entirely.

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Mexal said:

ETA: Daines, Murkowski and Johnson all say they'll vote yes. This is going to pass.

I don't think any of those three were ever really in question (at least since the ANWR horse trade was clear weeks ago).  Corker's recent statements and actions are much more significant.  As is, even more crucially, Collins' support on a procedural vote.  

[OldGimletEye]

That corporate tax cut is horrible. But, really the repeal of the mandate of the ACA is just monstrous. I hate that goddamned party. They are all a bunch flamin monsters. I will say a prayer for its utter destruction.

[Sivin]

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

On the plus side, you might be able to keep your chocolate bra? 

I hate being right all the time. 

Republicans just fell ass backwards into a goddamn time bomb that they're gonna hand off to Democrats. While the morally bankrupt people of Alabama live down to expectations, I think we are seeing the worst possible outcome of this whole circus. Dems don't even get a shot at playing home-field in Alabama in 4 years, Donnie gets credit for making a legislative item pass while enriching himself and his owners, the Kleptrocacy is fed anew, and if there is some mythical Democratic whiplash next year it will only inherit the poisoned remains of whatever government is left.