The Last Jedi, not the last spoiler thread

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Apart from trying to deny credit to others involved in the Inception soundtrack, what's he done?

Oh, I just have disliked him since the 80s. But if we're going to go into film music we might need a new thead, film music has been my thing since i was like...5. I could go on for pages and pages.

He also lifted a lot of Holst's The Planets for Gladiator, and got sued, but I'll take Zimmer over Tyler Bates any day, I don;t want to derail, but look up the soundtrack controversy for 300. Dude is a flat out thief.

[Red Tiger]

My thoughts on the film and final battle especially.

[Darth Richard II]

I think we'll get more info on Snoke. If Ep 9 comes out and we still know nothing, then I'll be pissed.

I've read some speculation that the books rey stole might have some info about him in them.

[Darth Richard II]

9 minutes ago, House Balstroko said:

-Luke’s arc completely contradicts what was established in FA. He went into exile following the defeat of the Jedi and gave R2 a map showing the coordinates of the planet he went to. In LJ, it turns out he doesn’t want to be found and went there to die. This is probably the worst contradiction.

 

I want to address this point specifically, because its factually wrong. He did not give R2D2 a map. It's clearly sated that R2D2 has maps from the old imperial archives that give context to the map that BB8 has. In fact, the whole setup for Ep 7 is them trying for along time to find the map, and when they do the first order loses its shit to try and get it.

Edit: Also, Luke does not wake up R2, BB8 does, this has been established in the dvd commentary and in multiple interviews.

[polishgenius]

12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Dude is a flat out thief.

That makes him a perfect heir to John Williams then.

[HexMachina]

I also think Rey’s skills with a lightsaber are adequately explained when we see her practice with the staff. She has had that since she lived on Jakku so it makes sense she also practiced there. And I’ve no doubt she had cause to defend herself on ocassion - it’s hardly a friendly place. Not to mention she must have some kind of reputation considering Teedo(?) doesn’t contest her freeing BB8.

Also, I mentioned earlier, but I think Luke’s speech about the force not belonging to the Jedi also applies somewhat to Rey being the daughter of nobody special. The force is everywhere, Part of everything, it isn’t limited to the kenobis or Skywalker of the world. We also see this with the young urchin casually using the force at the end. And even the prequels. The Jedi Order was once much larger, there is no reason that Rey has to belong to a specific family to have that aptitude. 

Oh and also Luke’s temple. He clearly says he had pupils, plural. They weren’t all Skywalkers...

[Darth Richard II]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

That makes him a perfect heir to John Williams then.

Most of those were specific homages that he admits to doing on purpose.

Edit: Also, none of those compare even a tiny bit to what happened with 300.

[polishgenius]

Just now, Darth Richard II said:

Most of those were specific homages that he admits to doing on purpose.

I'm no expert on film music, and I'm not really trying to shit on John Williams either, but surely there comes a point where so many of his iconic pieces were homages that it becomes a bit troublesome? Seems like that kind of thing is something you'd want to slip in quietly in a minor moment, not make your main theme. Guess the line isn't entirely clear, though- like how many people think Tarantino is a plagiarist but I think he stays just the right side of homage most of the time.  I don't really know enough about Williams' career or music in general to decide where the line is here.

Though I have also read that Williams may also have been an early victim of the temp-music curse when creating Star Wars in particular.

[Darth Richard II]

28 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'm no expert on film music, and I'm not really trying to shit on John Williams either, but surely there comes a point where so many of his iconic pieces were homages that it becomes a bit troublesome? Seems like that kind of thing is something you'd want to slip in quietly in a minor moment, not make your main theme. Guess the line isn't entirely clear, though- like how many people think Tarantino is a plagiarist but I think he stays just the right side of homage most of the time.  I don't really know enough about Williams' career or music in general to decide where the line is here.

Though I have also read that Williams may also have been an early victim of the temp-music curse when creating Star Wars in particular.

I think a lot of those are too small samples to make a big case out of it, but yeah, temp music, my god, there's a large topic.

 

Edit: Also, sorry I got so snappy. I have this this weird thing were I go into instant attack mode when every someone says anything every a little bad about JW. Left over from the old use net days.

[Rippounet]

9 hours ago, mormont said:

Look, Rey's parentage may have attracted significant discussion among the fanbase, because people felt strongly about the options. But in terms of significance, that issue wasn't within a million miles of being the 'central' one of TFA.

Is that so...

Quote

The two central questions of The Force Awakens that fans have been debating for years are who Supreme Leader Snoke is (Palpatine? Sidious? Jar Jar?) and who Rey's parents are (Kenobi? Skywalker?)
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/12/17/i-understand-the-anger-over-star-wars-the-last-jedi-but-loved-it-anyway/&refURL=https://www.google.fr/&referrer=https://www.google.fr/

Quote

If you've seen Star Wars: Episode VII — The Force Awakens (and by now, you probably have), it probably left you with one big question: Just who are the parents of Rey, the new character played by Daisy Ridley?

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/18/10513896/star-wars-the-force-awakens-rey-luke

And that's only on page 1 of a google search, taking the most relevant results. So I think claiming that the issue "wasn't within a million miles of being the 'central' one of TFA" is a bit hyperbolic to say the least.

I personally didn't even see the events at Luke's Jedi academy as a mystery. Ben Solo had turned to the dark side ; heartbroken over such a personal failure and unable to face his sister and Han, Luke decided he wasn't good enough to train new jedi. As far as I was concerned we would get details later, but I saw little reason to elaborate theories about it.
Not that I saw Rey's parentage as that important either tbh. It seemed unlikely to me that Luke would abandon his own daughter, or even Obiwan's, to fend for herself on some miserable planet. The only mystery I dedicated any thought to was Snoke's identity, especially since I wasn't sure we were seeing his real face in TFA.

Now I get that you're trying to say it wasn't central to the plot of the movies. But I didn't think the reason why Ben Solo turned dark would prove that important to the plot either. One way or the other he had turned dark, and I never imagined that we would be given a reason that might change the fact. Once he'd killed his own father, whatever reason he'd had in the first place became moot. I'm even -pleasantly- surprised that TLJ showed him as a more complex character, because after the end of TFA it seemed rather official that he was a "monster" and that he would not get the chance of redemption that Vader had.

Though, to nuance that last assertion a bit, I liked the theory saying that Han was the one who activated Ren's lightsaber, thus committing suicide and preventing his son from making an irrevocable decision. But it seems that theory was too smart for the writers. The question was whether he would kill Leia or whether she would be the one to condone his death.
 

[Lady Of The Crossbow Inn]

OMG, Darth Richard, your Hans Zimmer comment made my day. Had to clean up the tea off my keyboard. Wow I know that yes he's guilty of plagarism during some points of his career but the anti-Christ, surely? I know these days he just has flunkies do his orchestrations, but lots of composers grow lazy as they age. Or get rich. 

I'd argue his peak was the '90's, when he prob did his best origional work. For me his best from that era will always be The Lion King. I'm dead serious. Listen to  "..This Land"  for example. . Hell, that whole soundtrack start to finish other than the Elton John bits. He's one of the only ones at the time who turned a Disney cartoon about animals into a Shakesperean epic. OK go ahead and laugh if you want. 

Who did he plagarize from for that film, linkies please?

 

Oh on 2nd thought. I'm a score buff too. I think this SW music subject does need its own thread, what say you?

[Darth Richard II]

2 minutes ago, Lady Of The Crossbow Inn said:

OMG, Darth Richard, your Hans Zimmer comment made my day. Had to clean up the tea off my keyboard. Wow I know that yes he's guilty of plagarism during some points of his career but the anti-Christ, surely? I'd argue his peak was the '90's, when he prob did his best origional work. For me his best from that era will always be The Lion King. I'm dead serious. "..This Land" and others. Hell, that whole soundtrack start to finish other than the Elton John bits. He's one of the only ones at the time who turned a Disney cartoon about animals into a Shakesperean epic. OK go ahead and laugh if you want. 

Who did he plagarize from for that film, linkies please?

 

Oh on 2nd thought. I'm a score buff too. I think this subject does need its own thread, what say you?

Oh I actually like his score for The Lion King, its most of his later 90s earlier 2000s work that drives me nuts. Just BUM BUM BUM BUM over and over. Also back in the day he was kind of a twat in interviews.

[polishgenius]

4 minutes ago, Lady Of The Crossbow Inn said:

I'd argue his peak was the '90's, when he prob did his best origional work.

I'd argue that his peak is now, since Nolan-era Zimmer is easily the most influential/talked about film musician of his generation. Although obviously it isn't to everyone's tastes.

[Darth Richard II]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'd argue that his peak is now, since Nolan-era Zimmer is easily the most influential/talked about film musician of his generation. Although obviously it isn't to everyone's tastes.

Ah see, I dislike his Batman work immensely. Although I thought Inception was fine and I liked what he did for Blade Runner. Like I said, Tyler Bates is the one I really think just should be in jail.

And while I'm digressing, as far as stealing/homages/plagiarism what have you, Williams has nothing on some of the composers from the last 80s early 90s. I mean, I love me some James Horner, but my god.

Let me bring this back on topic to Star Wars, I believe the guy who did the music for R1, whose name I won;t even try and spell right now, only had 2-3 months to do the entire thing. I think he did an excellent job considering there could have been a lot more of the old ost tracked in there.

[Corvinus85]

4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ah see, I dislike his Batman work immensely. Although I thought Inception was fine and I liked what he did for Blade Runner. Like I said, Tyler Bates is the one I really think just should be in jail.

And while I'm digressing, as far as stealing/homages/plagiarism what have you, Williams has nothing on some of the composers from the last 80s early 90s. I mean, I love me some James Horner, but my god.

Let me bring this back on topic to Star Wars, I believe the guy who did the music for R1, whose name I won;t even try and spell right now, only had 2-3 months to do the entire thing. I think he did an excellent job considering there could have been a lot more of the old ost tracked in there.

Just so you know, I suggested Brian Tyler, not Tyler Bates. 

[karaddin]

On 12/20/2017 at 0:56 AM, Corvinus said:

why didn't the cruisers not just use their own jump they still had fuel for to jump right to the planet (it would have been a short jump), had the shuttles prep'ed before that, ready to go, then use the cruisers to fight off the coming enemy ships, while the people got to the base; maybe that way a greater number of people would have made it. Like I said, I'm okay with there being a chase, not okay with how it was done.

Because the idea was that the FO wouldn't know they had survived/gone to that moon. They were using some stealth mode so they weren't showing on the scanners and were too small to be seen visually without knowing to look for them. If they jump to the planet they draw attention there. What may have worked better in theory (ie for planning what they did) would be going to hyperspace immediately after the transports left to draw the FO away, but the betrayal would have ruined that anyway and Holdo wouldn't have been available for the hyperspace ram in that situation.

On 12/20/2017 at 10:29 AM, Astromech said:

The film was entirely worth seeing just for the ending with Luke. And the shot of Luke with the dual suns and Binary Sunset playing . . .

That got me so bad, tears were shed.

On 12/20/2017 at 10:29 AM, Darth Richard II said:

Yes, yes, Crystal.

Or, hmm, salt? Salt foxes?

Salt forms crystals it can be both.

23 hours ago, RumHam said:

Heh, he continues to be the best thing about the prequels. That reminds me of something I meant to check/ask. In the original movie does Kenobi ever use the force prior to lowering the shields on the death star? I know Vader realizes he's there around that time. I'm wondering if he "cut himself off from the force" like Luke did and that's how he avoided detection for all those years. That could make the Obi movie a lot more interesting.

This is actually address in the Ahsoka novel. After Order66 the amount of trauma that went into the force essentially fucked up the force, she was unable to sense anyone else without being in close proximity. The force had essentially closed up, curling up in response to pain. He was not closed off from the force, he and yoda were essentially trained by force-ghost QGJ to become one with the force themselves and I *think* he was in contact with Yoda through the force still (but I could be wrong on this one).

9 hours ago, Corvinus said:

For Ep. IX, I would like to believe they won't go the Tarkin route too much; maybe just one brief CGI appearance, and she'll probably look better than young Leia in Rogue One.

I'm pretty sure they've said explicitly they will not do this out of respect given her recent passing and the pain this could cause those who were close to her. Something in the crawl is really the only possibility that's left.

 

I know a lot of people are bothered by Hux and I get it, but I watched a reaction to TLJ on youtube that I think really nailed why its actually a good thing, I've been meaning to transcribe what's said to post it in here with a link but haven't got to it yet. The guy in question does a lot of media analysis and has previously posted one of Triumph of the Will which is a piece of nazi propaganda from Nazi Germany. In that he makes the point that pretty much all depictions of nazis since then have bought into their propaganda in terms of how they are depicted - they are serious, they are efficient, they are competent, they are well dressed and orderly etc etc. In his reaction to the TLJ he comments on how Hux flies in the face of that, he gets dunked on by pretty much everyone around him and is personally a joke. I note that he is very much still treated as dangerous and a huge threat, and that's also important because people not taking the threat that nazis pose seriously is a problem, but nazis themselves deserve to be universally ridiculed and that's what happens with Hux.

[Darth Richard II]

3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Just so you know, I suggested Brian Tyler, not Tyler Bates. 

I know! He's pretty good! I just have this extreme hate for Tyler Bates after 300, parasitically since Goldenthal is one of my all time personal faves.

[polishgenius]

11 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ah see, I dislike his Batman work immensely.

Thought you might. I think a lot of that, particularly the Joker theme, is the sort of thing that works well for the film it's in, but you wouldn't listen to it alone. SImilar goes for the Dunkirk theme.

No Time For Caution, on the other hand, is just a class piece of music, imo.

But yeah, whether one likes it or not, it's his music from this time of his career that's going to have the greatest legacy, I think.

 

 

eta: the Bates/300 thing was surely another temp music issue though, right? I mean, I'm not saying he's blameless. But that whole thing is a plague.

[Darth Richard II]

3 minutes ago, karaddin said:

 

I know a lot of people are bothered by Hux and I get it, but I watched a reaction to TLJ on youtube that I think really nailed why its actually a good thing, I've been meaning to transcribe what's said to post it in here with a link but haven't got to it yet. The guy in question does a lot of media analysis and has previously posted one of Triumph of the Will which is a piece of nazi propaganda from Nazi Germany. In that he makes the point that pretty much all depictions of nazis since then have bought into their propaganda in terms of how they are depicted - they are serious, they are efficient, they are competent, they are well dressed and orderly etc etc. In his reaction to the TLJ he comments on how Hux flies in the face of that, he gets dunked on by pretty much everyone around him and is personally a joke. I note that he is very much still treated as dangerous and a huge threat, and that's also important because people not taking the threat that nazis pose seriously is a problem, but nazis themselves deserve to be universally ridiculed and that's what happens with Hux.

Me and my friend loved the way Hux kept getting slapped around like a bitch. It reminded me off all the Generals and Commanders Vader chokes to death.

[SpaceChampion]

Ancient interview from 1977: