NBA playoffs 2018 - Raptors over Cavs in 6

[Red Tiger]

Get LeBron to go to Houston and get him to play more like a power forward. He's done it before.  He won't get as many assists, but he will still be fed the ball plenty.

[Jaime L]

34 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm not quite so sanguine.  The Celtics and Sixers look like they're going to dominate the East for a while, but that's fine.  A lot will depend on if Philly can get another big name star this offseason.  If they add Lebron/George/Leonard, they have real championship possibilities.

The Warriors will win this year.  This offseason the Warriors lose some of their depth, but none of their main core.  So they'll win next year barring serious injury.  But then after next year the NBA goes back to being a competitive league - they can't possibly pay Thompson after they extend Durant.  Not to mention by 2019 Iguodala will be 36, and his game isn't aging well with his inconsistent 3 pointer.  A team of Curry + Durant + Green + limited depth is still a great team, possibly the most talented in the league.  But they're not unbeatable.  I could realistically see Boston or Philly or New Orleans or Utah potentially challenging them if they build well over the next two years.

 

18 minutes ago, Fez said:

Also, things can change quickly in the NBA. If Houston can do the cap space jujitsu needed (and the convincing) to get LeBron, that alone puts them in contention to beat the Warriors next year. So could a Lakers team based on LeBron and Kawhi Leonard, with some other pieces. There's other conceivable (though maybe not very likely) super-teams that could also do it next year.

Part of me wants to see Lebron go to Houston and build a superteam talented enough to truly counter the Warriors. They have no counter to what Durant provides the Warriors and really there's no-one in the league who can...except Lebron. 

Even presuming they could find creative solutions to being up against cap, there too I wonder about the fit. It wouldn't be nearly as seamless as Durant to the Warriors. Would Lebron, Harden and Paul each take turns running the offense through isos? That's what he did with Wade in Miami and though they won titles through sheer talent, it isn't ideally complimentary. The main benefit would be Harden and Lebron could get the rest they so clearly need now. With this many great passers and playmakers you'd think MDA would be able to devise an offense more creative than the current max efficiency by being iso heavy, low risk Morey-ball they play now but for how much Harden and Lebron like to run the entire offense through themselves...it'd be an open question if they could ever get there. 

The main issue for Lebron is there is no perfect option for him this offseason. Cleveland no longer has the talent. Houston probably can't fit him under the cap and there's fit issues. Philly is an even worse fit. And building a team from scratch in LA probably won't be good enough unless he can also liberate Kawhi (and without giving up too much which is nearly impossible). It's genuinely a mystery what he ends up deciding. And then with Kawhi and George also maybe moving, it's going to be a batshit offseason. 

 

 

 

[sperry]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

 

I don't like Lebron's fit.  I think George might move the needle enough, he's a very good player, and they only need him to be third banana.  Obviously it's contingent on the young guys getting better, but there's reason to assume they will.  Kawhi's price is undetermined of yet, but I'm sure the Spurs would prefer trading him East if possible, and the Sixers have pieces to deal (including Fultz, who could still develop into a star).

Strongly disagree.  Death in the NBA is having a big man who can't defend.  A big man who can get high percentage shots and pressure opponents to double him is still an elite skill, there just aren't many guys who can do that and still defend out to the 3 point line when necessary.  Embiid is one of the few.

 

Is George going to be okay with being a 3 and D guy? He should be the best 3 and D in the league. Instead, he's a really inconsistent, mediocre "star." The dude throws up some of the most horrific clunkers you can ever imagine. The 2-16 thing he did in game 6 against Utah is common for him, he had at least a dozen games like that this year.

 

Obviously having a great defensive center is nice. But having a center who wants and needs 15+ shots a game is just not a winning recipe.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

18 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Fuck you, JR Smith.

Van Gundy sounded like a melodramatic tool.  Superb job by Horford on not sticking the landing.  Smart's tough guy stare became old after the first 10 seconds.  

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23522858/nba-not-discipline-jr-smith-cleveland-cavaliers-flagrant-1-foul-vs-boston-celtics

Glad the NBA got it right.  It wasn't a dirty play, it was just a physical foul.  Physical fouls make the game better in my opinion.  Besides people are becoming way too soft nowadays, especially in the NBA.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Get LeBron to go to Houston and get him to play more like a power forward. He's done it before.  He won't get as many assists, but he will still be fed the ball plenty.

Do you worry that having too many primary ball handlers might collectively stifle them? Paul, Harden and James all prefer to have the ball in their hands. 

1 hour ago, sperry said:

 

Is George going to be okay with being a 3 and D guy? He should be the best 3 and D in the league.

Nah, that's still Klay in my book. His elite defensive skills get overlooked. I know I used to do that, but watching him put the clamps down in the Finals last year was awesome. He was Spiderman out there. 

[sperry]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Do you worry that having too many primary ball handlers might collectively stifle them? Paul, Harden and James all prefer to have the ball in their hands. 

Nah, that's still Klay in my book. His elite defensive skills get overlooked. I know I used to do that, but watching him put the clamps down in the Finals last year was awesome. He was Spiderman out there. 

 

George is a much better defender than Klay. He's just bigger and more athletic and can do more. George's problem is his ridiculously streaky shooting, and he's not a great shot creator.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

George is a much better defender than Klay. He's just bigger and more athletic and can do more. George's problem is his ridiculously streaky shooting, and he's not a great shot creator.

Is he? I know both are good, but I assumed they were basically at the same point. I Googled a few articles on the subject and I saw Klay's name mentioned more, but obviously that's a poor way to evaluate the two players. And far as size goes, George is only two inches taller and a few pounds heavier. I guess that matters against some guys, but really it's at the margins, considering Klay is taller than 6'6 and George is under 6'10.

You're correct to mention George's consistency, and that's why I prefer Klay. His consistency and lethality in short bursts makes him more valuable IMO.

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is he? I know both are good, but I assumed they were basically at the same point. I Googled a few articles on the subject and I saw Klay's name mentioned more, but obviously that's a poor way to evaluate the two players. And far as size goes, George is only two inches taller and a few pounds heavier. I guess that matters against some guys, but really it's at the margins, considering Klay is taller than 6'6 and George is under 6'10.

You're correct to mention George's consistency, and that's why I prefer Klay. His consistency and lethality in short bursts makes him more valuable IMO.

 

George is bigger, stronger and has longer arms. He can guard 1-4, and a lot of modern 5s.

 

Klay is a really good player, but he's the 4th best defender and the 4th best player on his team.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

George is bigger, stronger and has longer arms. He can guard 1-4, and a lot of modern 5s.

 

Klay is a really good player, but he's the 4th best defender and the 4th best player on his team.

Klay can probably guard 1-4, but not the 5. But how many true 5s are left in the NBA? And I'd probably rank him third in both categories. He was their second best defender until KD realized, "Hey, I'm 7ft tall, I have really long arms and I move like a SG. Maybe I'll give this defense business a try." 

I feel like Klay and Draymond are two of the hardest players to rank in the NBA. I have no idea if they're top 20, top 30, or byproducts of an amazing system. 

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Do you worry that having too many primary ball handlers might collectively stifle them? Paul, Harden and James all prefer to have the ball in their hands.

Not at all. Part of the reason LeBron handled the ball as much on previous teams is that he was almost always the best passer. With CP3 on the team, he won't feel like he needs to have the rock as much. To add to that, he's getting older, he won't want to carry the load as much anyway.

[Rhom]

My nephew had his 8th grade graduation tonight in Louisville.  (I’m not down with middle school graduation, but it’s a private school he’s been in since Kindergarten... so it’s cool I guess.)

Anyways, I’m not sure how I never knew this, but Will Purdue’s kid is in his class.  Kept wanting to ask him to take a picture, but thought it would be inappropriate.  Did whisper to my seven year old son that he played on four title teams and was part of a team that was basically what the Warriors are now.  

While talking to my older nephew about him, I looked him up and saw that he was the 11th pick in ‘88.  He’s still a big dude, but he seems to walk a bit stooped over.

[KingintheNorth4]

Houston definitely made adjustments from last game. No more iso ball from them.

[James Arryn]

15 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

Houston definitely made adjustments from last game. No more iso ball from them.

I know it looks like that, but it’s really more about the PnR. Lately that’s been the hinge that everything else builds off of, but they have a few ways to go within their norm. GS played the PnR better, ar least in 1, and so that resulted in guys, especially the lead guards, waiting for a clear that wasn’t coming, then needing to go solo. It’s really just a small adjustment. I personally hope they don’t give up on the PnR; it really works for them most of the time.

[Jaime L]

Felt like every time Golden State made a run to get back in the game, either Gordon or Tucker made a big 3 to counter it. 

Durant is still patently unstoppable but as long as Curry remains hobbled, Houston can make this a series. This makes game 3 interesting again. 

ETA: Why is Harden still in a 28 point game? 

[Maithanet]

That was a dream game for the Rockets.  Gorden and Tucker combine for 49 points on 11/15 from 3 point range?  Yeah, I can't expect that to happen again.  Admittedly, Paul and Harden could reasonably be expected to shoot better than 4/20 from deep, but still.  On the plus side, the Rockets had real ball movement this game, it wasn't just a series of ISOs.

I'm glad it's a series, but I'm still very doubtful the Warriors can be beaten. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

That was a dream game for the Rockets.  Gorden and Tucker combine for 49 points on 11/15 from 3 point range?  Yeah, I can't expect that to happen again.  Admittedly, Paul and Harden could reasonably be expected to shoot better than 4/20 from deep, but still.  On the plus side, the Rockets had real ball movement this game, it wasn't just a series of ISOs.

I'm glad it's a series, but I'm still very doubtful the Warriors can be beaten. 

You also can’t expect Curry and Klay to just give you a combined 24 points. That said, Curry doesn’t look right, and if he can’t be, ya know, the cheat code, the Rockets have a chance.

[Jaime L]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

That said, Curry doesn’t look right, and if he can’t be, ya know, the cheat code, the Rockets have a chance.

He doesn't have the same small space agility to get that sliver of room to launch a high percentage 3. It was the same way in the 2016 playoffs. He's still been a solid scorer going to the rim but until he can get his 3's on track, the ceiling of this team isn't the same.

Klay filled that void in game 1 but was totally shut down last night. 

That said I think the Warriors took their foot off the accelerator after winning game 1. I expect that kind of intensity again in game 3. 

[Rhom]

 

 

Poor Sacramento fans... they've become the Browns of the NBA.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

He doesn't have the same small space agility to get that sliver of room to launch a high percentage 3. It was the same way in the 2016 playoffs. He's still been a solid scorer going to the rim but until he can get his 3's on track, the ceiling of this team isn't the same.

Klay filled that void in game 1 but was totally shut down last night. 

That said I think the Warriors took their foot off the accelerator after winning game 1. I expect that kind of intensity again in game 3. 

I agree across the board. And on top of your comments on Steph, he’s getting worn down on defense which won’t help his knee. The Rockets have clearly decided to attack Curry as much as they can. I still think it’s Warriors in 6, and that they’ll destroy Houston in game 3, but last night gave me reasons to have doubt. Either way, I hope we get an insane series.

I have finally bought in on Boston. They don’t have anyone near LeBron’s class, but they have the superior match up at every other position and their bench matches up well against the Cav’s bench too. I wonder if they actually have a shot if they make it to the Finals. I expected them to lose each of the series they’ve played, but damn are the gritty, and Stevens is a brilliant tactician. Maybe, just maybe….

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, Rhom said:

 

 

Poor Sacramento fans... they've become the Browns of the NBA.

I’ve been to all the major cities in Cali. San Fran is amazing. LA is amazing. San Diego is amazing. Sacramento is a dumpster fire. That’s not a place I’d want to live. And I absolutely wouldn’t want to play for a team whose owner once floated the idea of playing 4 on 5 with a cherry picker at the other end.