NBA playoffs 2018 - Raptors over Cavs in 6

[Ramsay B.]

16 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Series over already.

Ugh. Yup

[KingintheNorth4]

Good lord, how do you leave Klay THAT wide open?

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

I generally feel that way but this game has me on the edge of my seat. You have two guys who fundamentally cannot be covered in Harden and Durant going back and forth every possession. 

And they played on a team with Russell Westbrook...

[Jaime L]

21 minutes ago, Rhom said:

And they played on a team with Russell Westbrook...

Drafting 3 MVPs in 3 drafts was a pretty ok run. 

[BigFatCoward]

2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Drafting 3 MVPs in 3 drafts was a pretty ok run. 

Yet it got them nothing. My nba history isn't great, has anyone done anything similar and ended up without anything to show for it?

[DMC]

20 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yet it got them nothing. My nba history isn't great, has anyone done anything similar and ended up without anything to show for it?

No.  Hell, just skim the list of MVPs.  Closest thing to it would be Cuban low-balling Nash and missing out on the opportunity to have him and Nowitzki for longer.

[Relic]

44 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yet it got them nothing. My nba history isn't great, has anyone done anything similar and ended up without anything to show for it?

I wouldnt day it got them nothing. It certainly has kept them relevant, despite how small market they are. 

I hate the Warriors. 

[Maithanet]

Pretty disappointing start to the series.  It really just showed how ridiculously talented GSW is.  Playing at home, when Harden and Capela are playing well and Paul is merely ok, and they lost by double digits.  The only way this is gonna be a series is if the Warriors start getting careless with the ball.  Which they have a bad habit of doing from time to time, but that's really the only weakness I can see. 

[Exa Inova]

I wonder if someone on the rockets will figure out that they ran right into the warriors trap. Let them seek out steph and go 1 on 1. At that point the warriors knew no more pass would be coming. Harden or Paul could either make or miss that hard earned jumper and their others would remain ice cold and without any rhythem.

Harden was great, Paul was good and they still lost by more than 10. They have a much better chance if Harden is just good, Paul decent and the rest of the team gets way more touches. 

A better chance but still warriors in 5.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Pretty disappointing start to the series.  It really just showed how ridiculously talented GSW is.  Playing at home, when Harden and Capela are playing well and Paul is merely ok, and they lost by double digits.  The only way this is gonna be a series is if the Warriors start getting careless with the ball.  Which they have a bad habit of doing from time to time, but that's really the only weakness I can see. 

I told you this would be a bad match up for Houston. They can put Paul on Curry and be OK with that. They can have Harden on Klay and hope that it’s a net plus for them. They can have Capela on Green and hope for the best. But they’ve got nothing for Durant, one on one, and once they start double teaming him everything breaks down and the previous match ups get blown up. I still think Houston will take two games in the series, but it’s clear that GS is on a different level.

[Jaime L]

10 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yet it got them nothing. My nba history isn't great, has anyone done anything similar and ended up without anything to show for it?

The 90s Magic with Shaq and Penny Hardaway was probably the closest.  They made the Finals when they were all super young, but Olajuwon eviscerated Shaq in the finals the one year they made it and then they ran into the MJ Bulls buzz saw after that. Shaq left for LA soon afterwards to become the all time great rapper/actor we now think of him as.

Granted that still doesn't compare to drafting 3 MVPs in a successive drafts. But of course they all wouldn't have become MVPs had they stayed together. If they had, pretty sure only Durant would have a serious chance at MVP, and we look at them different. Pretty sure even Sam Presti didn't know Harden would become anything close to this. 

[briantw]

11 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yet it got them nothing. My nba history isn't great, has anyone done anything similar and ended up without anything to show for it?

It got them nothing because their owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax to keep Harden, which likely snowballed into Durant leaving as well a few years later.  I just don't know how you break up a team that is filled with guys under 25 and just made the Finals.  Such a catastrophically stupid decision on the part of the Thunder.

There are a lot of things I dislike about the Cavs' ownership, but at least I know that they'll never lose a star player because they weren't willing to pay to keep him.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

It got them nothing because their owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax to keep Harden, which likely snowballed into Durant leaving as well a few years later.  I just don't know how you break up a team that is filled with guys under 25 and just made the Finals.  Such a catastrophically stupid decision on the part of the Thunder.

There are a lot of things I dislike about the Cavs' ownership, but at least I know that they'll never lose a star player because they weren't willing to pay to keep him.

I think that ownership knew that they couldn't pay Westbrook+Durant max deals and then give Harden + Ibaka near max/max deals as well.  And at the time of the trade, they claimed that Ibaka was a better fit for what they were trying to do than Harden was.  I can see that to a limited extent.  Ibaka at that time was a fierce shot blocker and rebounder, and capable of spacing the floor without getting the ball much.  Considering that Durant and Westbrook are both very ball dominant, having the #3 guy also be ball dominant is a bad fit. 

In hindsight it was an incredibly stupid move.  Harden is a great NBA player, whereas Ibaka is merely a good one.  Harden grew into a superstar where Ibaka peaked in 2014, if not earlier.  There's also the rumor that Ibaka is several years older than his listed age (he's allegedly only 28).

OKC was in a tough spot because Harden never would have resigned with them in the 2013 offseason if he was still relegated to third banana behind Durant/Westbrook.  But their solution of trading him for very little, rather than trying to Win Now was obviously the wrong move.  It's possible that with Harden then the Westbrook injury that ended the 2013 Thunder season wouldn't have been so catastrophic.  And if you're being really generous, it's POSSIBLE (although not, IMO likely) that Westbrook wouldn't have been injured at all with Harden on the team, as he wouldn't have to play as much with another star. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

I think that ownership knew that they couldn't pay Westbrook+Durant max deals and then give Harden + Ibaka near max/max deals as well.  And at the time of the trade, they claimed that Ibaka was a better fit for what they were trying to do than Harden was.  I can see that to a limited extent.  Ibaka at that time was a fierce shot blocker and rebounder, and capable of spacing the floor without getting the ball much.  Considering that Durant and Westbrook are both very ball dominant, having the #3 guy also be ball dominant is a bad fit. 

In hindsight it was an incredibly stupid move.  Harden is a great NBA player, whereas Ibaka is merely a good one.  Harden grew into a superstar where Ibaka peaked in 2014, if not earlier.  There's also the rumor that Ibaka is several years older than his listed age (he's allegedly only 28).

OKC was in a tough spot because Harden never would have resigned with them in the 2013 offseason if he was still relegated to third banana behind Durant/Westbrook.  But their solution of trading him for very little, rather than trying to Win Now was obviously the wrong move.  It's possible that with Harden then the Westbrook injury that ended the 2013 Thunder season wouldn't have been so catastrophic.  And if you're being really generous, it's POSSIBLE (although not, IMO likely) that Westbrook wouldn't have been injured at all with Harden on the team, as he wouldn't have to play as much with another star. 

Yeah, the real problem was choosing a guy who was probably already 35 over Harden.  

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

The 90s Magic with Shaq and Penny Hardaway was probably the closest.  They made the Finals when they were all super young, but Olajuwon eviscerated Shaq in the finals the one year they made it and then they ran into the MJ Bulls buzz saw after that. Shaq left for LA soon afterwards to become the all time great rapper/actor we now think of him as.

Granted that still doesn't compare to drafting 3 MVPs in a successive drafts. But of course they all wouldn't have become MVPs had they stayed together. If they had, pretty sure only Durant would have a serious chance at MVP, and we look at them different. Pretty sure even Sam Presti didn't know Harden would become anything close to this. 

Google me @Jaime L Google me!

The Big Aristotle was as wise as he was big.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

The 90s Magic with Shaq and Penny Hardaway was probably the closest.  They made the Finals when they were all super young, but Olajuwon eviscerated Shaq in the finals the one year they made it and then they ran into the MJ Bulls buzz saw after that. Shaq left for LA soon afterwards to become the all time great rapper/actor we now think of him as.

Granted that still doesn't compare to drafting 3 MVPs in a successive drafts. But of course they all wouldn't have become MVPs had they stayed together. If they had, pretty sure only Durant would have a serious chance at MVP, and we look at them different. Pretty sure even Sam Presti didn't know Harden would become anything close to this. 

Kemp and Payton being drafted by (ironically) the Sonics also comes to mind. 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Yeah, the real problem was choosing a guy who was probably already 35 over Harden.  

How old IS Ibaka anyway?

[Maithanet]

22 minutes ago, Relic said:

Kemp and Payton being drafted by (ironically) the Sonics also comes to mind. 

Stockton/Malone were the #16 and #13 picks in 84 and 85 drafts by the Jazz.  Two picks in the teens that were hall of famers, and they only had one Western Conference win and 0 titles. 

9 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

How old IS Ibaka anyway?

My understanding is that no one really knows.  He came from Congo, and his birthdate on wikipedia is Sept 1989 (making him 28).  But that would be mean he was only 18 when he was drafted in 2008, but he'd already been playing internationally for a couple of years in France and Spain at that point.  It was obviously in his best interest to say he's as young as possible, but it's hard to believe he was as big as he was at the very young age that he started playing pro ball.  My guess would be he's ~3 years older than he claims, which would make him around 31, although that's just guessing.

[BigFatCoward]

Jesus, just noticed they could have traded down and taken Curry instead, better or worse fit with Westbrook/Durrant?

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Jesus, just noticed they could have traded down and taken Curry instead, better or worse fit with Westbrook/Durrant?

Better. Curry does not care about being the first option scoring-wise and he is a far better passer. He would have enjoyed feeding them the ball.