NBA playoffs 2018 - Raptors over Cavs in 6

[briantw]

27 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Poor Sacramento fans... they've become the Browns of the NBA.

Hey now...the Browns aren't nearly as depressing as the Kings.

[IamMe90]

40 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I agree across the board. And on top of your comments on Steph, he’s getting worn down on defense which won’t help his knee. The Rockets have clearly decided to attack Curry as much as they can. I still think it’s Warriors in 6, and that they’ll destroy Houston in game 3, but last night gave me reasons to have doubt. Either way, I hope we get an insane series.

I have finally bought in on Boston. They don’t have anyone near LeBron’s class, but they have the superior match up at every other position and their bench matches up well against the Cav’s bench too. I wonder if they actually have a shot if they make it to the Finals. I expected them to lose each of the series they’ve played, but damn are the gritty, and Stevens is a brilliant tactician. Maybe, just maybe….

If Houston somehow pulls away with this series and advances to the finals, the Celtics could have a remote chance of winning if Houston goes on a cold streak. If Golden State advances as predicted, the Celtics have no chance at winning the championship IMO.

[DanteGabriel]

41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I have finally bought in on Boston. They don’t have anyone near LeBron’s class, but they have the superior match up at every other position and their bench matches up well against the Cav’s bench too. I wonder if they actually have a shot if they make it to the Finals. I expected them to lose each of the series they’ve played, but damn are the gritty, and Stevens is a brilliant tactician. Maybe, just maybe….

I still think Cleveland could come back and take the series, but I think Boston would at least give Golden State a better series than Cleveland would. The Cavs are definitely a worse team than they were last year, so they'd get blown off the court in the Finals. Meanwhile, the Celtics have young, fast guys who actually play defense. It's not much of a chance, but a better shot than the Cavs have.

 

38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve been to all the major cities in Cali. San Fran is amazing. LA is amazing. San Diego is amazing. Sacramento is a dumpster fire. That’s not a place I’d want to live. And I absolutely wouldn’t want to play for a team whose owner once floated the idea of playing 4 on 5 with a cherry picker at the other end.

Having grown up in Southern California and spent a lot of time in Northern California, yes this.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

Poor Sacramento fans... they've become the Browns of the NBA.

A title disputed by the Charlotte Bobcats of old. 

[briantw]

Holy shit.

[Red Tiger]

As a guy who's never been to Sacramento or California in general, what is so awful about Sacramento?

[Tywin et al.]

3 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

If Houston somehow pulls away with this series and advances to the finals, the Celtics could have a remote chance of winning if Houston goes on a cold streak. If Golden State advances as predicted, the Celtics have no chance at winning the championship IMO.

Boston always has a plan. Against the Sixers, they let everyone get their own so long as the ball is never in Simmons' hands. That effectively killed their three point machine. Against the Cavs, it would appear that they're letting LeBron get his while tiring him out and denying everyone else. My guess is they'd do to Houston what they did to the Sixers and deny Paul and Harden and let the role players get there's, and like you said, hope that they get cold. The main difference between game 1 and 2 of the GS-Houston series is that the role players missed their shots in game 1 and made them in game 2.

3 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I still think Cleveland could come back and take the series, but I think Boston would at least give Golden State a better series than Cleveland would. The Cavs are definitely a worse team than they were last year, so they'd get blown off the court in the Finals. Meanwhile, the Celtics have young, fast guys who actually play defense. It's not much of a chance, but a better shot than the Cavs have.

Much of what I wrote above addresses your post, but there were two things I wanted to add. First, I absolutely agree that the Celtics are better built to face off against GS and Houston. Their young guys are as you said, fast and play defense, but more importantly, Boston's players are gritty AF. Tatum and Brown want to be stars and Scary Terry and Smart are the type of rough riders that have a place on any team. Boston will be scary next year when the start Kyrie/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Horford with all those young studs coming off of the bench. Second, a Tweet's worth a thousand words:

 

[Tywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

As a guy who's never been to Sacramento or California in general, what is so awful about Sacramento?

Most of Cali, outside of the bad neighborhoods, is gorgeous. The Bay Area and San Diego are prime examples. LA is kind of all over the place, but the best parts compare to anywhere in the world. I love Ventura Beach, and have some family in the Hills so I got the best of both worlds when I was younger. Sacramento is boring and dingy. It's like one pick strip mall and there's nothing to see outside of the Capitol. Maybe it's gotten better since I last was there, which to be fair was a long time ago, but as an example, I remember being 10 or so with my dad in LA in a car and asked him if we could go see Sacramento and he simply replied, "Why the hell would we do that?" 

[briantw]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

In what world is Kyrie Irving a top ten NBA player?  He's great, but he's not top ten.  He's borderline top twenty.

[Tywin et al.]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

In what world is Kyrie Irving a top ten NBA player?  He's great, but he's not top ten.  He's borderline top twenty.

Top 10 is a bit hyperbolic, but I would say he improved this year. Wasn't he considered to be one of the second tier MVP candidates before he got hurt? 

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Top 10 is a bit hyperbolic, but I would say he improved this year. Wasn't he considered to be one of the second tier MVP candidates before he got hurt? 

Was he?  I'd say the fact that his current team looks better without him tells you everything you need to know about Kyrie Irving.  He's really good, particularly if you need him for a big, pivotal game.  But he coasts during the season, is dog shit defensively, and is a two guard trapped in the body of a point guard.  He's comfortably in the 20-25 range to me.  Maybe 15-25.  He's basically Kobe if you took away the elite athleticism, subtracted the all-world (in his prime, when he gave a shit) defense, and halved his passing ability, and Kobe without those and four inches shorter wouldn't have been a top ten player.

Either way, there's no scenario where Kyrie Irving is a top ten player in the NBA right now.

[davos]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Was he?  I'd say the fact that his current team looks better without him tells you everything you need to know about Kyrie Irving.  He's really good, particularly if you need him for a big, pivotal game.  But he coasts during the season, is dog shit defensively, and is a two guard trapped in the body of a point guard.  He's comfortably in the 20-25 range to me.  Maybe 15-25.  He's basically Kobe if you took away the elite athleticism, subtracted the all-world (in his prime, when he gave a shit) defense, and halved his passing ability, and Kobe without those and four inches shorter wouldn't have been a top ten player.

Either way, there's no scenario where Kyrie Irving is a top ten player in the NBA right now.

I would argue otherwise.  He really redefined his intensity on both ends of the floor once in Boston.  Irving was one of the almost but not quite a real MVP candidate at the time of his injury.  While his stat line is similar to those from his past few seasons in Cleveland, he had made himself into a much more complete player.  While the success of his team without him does put a question mark on this evaluation, I tend to think that is a testament to how well Boston rebuilt their whole roster, especially in evaluating and quickly developing  young talent, than it is a mark against Irving.  Give the man his due.  The injury took away his chance to emphasize his progress on the bigger stage of the post season but he's clearly a significantly better player than he was last year when he was likely top 25.  

This squad with the addition of Irving and Hayward would scary and have the potential to be a real threat to GS or Houston in the finals.  

[Red Tiger]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Most of Cali, outside of the bad neighborhoods, is gorgeous. The Bay Area and San Diego are prime examples. LA is kind of all over the place, but the best parts compare to anywhere in the world. I love Ventura Beach, and have some family in the Hills so I got the best of both worlds when I was younger. Sacramento is boring and dingy. It's like one pick strip mall and there's nothing to see outside of the Capitol. Maybe it's gotten better since I last was there, which to be fair was a long time ago, but as an example, I remember being 10 or so with my dad in LA in a car and asked him if we could go see Sacramento and he simply replied, "Why the hell would we do that?" 

Sounds lifeless as hell.

How did Cali's capital end up becoming so boring?

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Boston always has a plan. Against the Sixers, they let everyone get their own so long as the ball is never in Simmons' hands. That effectively killed their three point machine. Against the Cavs, it would appear that they're letting LeBron get his while tiring him out and denying everyone else. My guess is they'd do to Houston what they did to the Sixers and deny Paul and Harden and let the role players get there's, and like you said, hope that they get cold. The main difference between game 1 and 2 of the GS-Houston series is that the role players missed their shots in game 1 and made them in game 2.

Much of what I wrote above addresses your post, but there were two things I wanted to add. First, I absolutely agree that the Celtics are better built to face off against GS and Houston. Their young guys are as you said, fast and play defense, but more importantly, Boston's players are gritty AF. Tatum and Brown want to be stars and Scary Terry and Smart are the type of rough riders that have a place on any team. Boston will be scary next year when the start Kyrie/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Horford with all those young studs coming off of the bench. Second, a Tweet's worth a thousand words:

 

If i were the Celtics I'd trade Kyrie this off-season for a guy like Porzingis, or Anthony Davis, or even a lesser big man with rim protection and 3 point potential. 

[Tywin et al.]

12 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Sounds lifeless as hell.

How did Cali's capital end up becoming so boring?

Lots of states have odd capitals:

https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_capitals_in_the_United_States

6 hours ago, Relic said:

If i were the Celtics I'd trade Kyrie this off-season for a guy like Porzingis, or Anthony Davis, or even a lesser big man with rim protection and 3 point potential. 

Ah, no. First, KP might miss all of next season, and there's no way AD gets traded, especially just for Kyrie. They'd have to throw in Tatum and a pick to make that work. If the Celtics do make some trades in the offseason, they should trade the guys who have high sell now value like Rozier and Smart, but if they can make the contracts work, they should keep everyone that they can. 

[Relic]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lost of states have odd capitals:

https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_capitals_in_the_United_States

Ah, no. First, KP might miss all of next season, and there's no way AD gets traded, especially just for Kyrie. They'd have to throw in Tatum and a pick to make that work. If the Celtics do make some trades in the offseason, they should trade the guys who have high sell now value like Rozier and Smart, but if they can make the contracts work, they should keep everyone that they can. 

Pelicans in 6

[sperry]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

If i were the Celtics I'd trade Kyrie this off-season for a guy like Porzingis, or Anthony Davis, or even a lesser big man with rim protection and 3 point potential. 

 

The crazy thing is they can just go sign a guy, they don't even need to trade Kyrie. Nobody is going to have cap space, and it looks like they'll have some room. So they could get a guy like Jerami Grant from OKC. Or the move I would make if I were them, is get Nerlens Noel to sign a year deal on the cheap to do some image rehabilitation. Let Stephens make him look good for a year and recover some of the value that he lost. They're also going to be able to get ring chasers at this point.

 

People are absolutely losing their minds about the Celtics, and a lot of it is deservedly so, but there are some things I would be a little bit cautious about. The Al Horford hype has gotten a little bit out of control, as media members tear their rotator cuffs patting themselves on the back as every single one of them declares that they knew how valuable Al Horford was while the unwashed masses never understood his value. And while Al is a really good player, and always has been a really good player, what he's doing in these playoffs is not even remotely representative of his career. Did he suddenly become a top 5 player in the league at age (almost) 32, or is he having a stretch where he's playing out of his mind?

[DanteGabriel]

6 hours ago, Relic said:

If i were the Celtics I'd trade Kyrie this off-season for a guy like Porzingis, or Anthony Davis, or even a lesser big man with rim protection and 3 point potential. 

I don't hate the idea, but as Tywin says, it'd take more than Kyrie alone to get AD. Dunno what the asking price for KP might be, with his injury and his maybe being disgruntled with the Knicks.

It seems likely to me, though, that the Celtics flip Rozier in the next year for a pick or as part of a package. He's going to be too pricey to re-sign. I hope they can keep Smart somehow, though. The thousand little things he does every game are just so valuable.

One complication: who the hell wants to do deals with Trader Danny now? None of these GMs want to be his next victim.

[Tywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Relic said:

Pelicans in 6

Caveats!

[Tywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, sperry said:

Did he suddenly become a top 5 player in the league at age (almost) 32, or is he having a stretch where he's playing out of his mind?

I’d chalk it up to great coaching. There are a couple of truly great coaches and a few truly dreadful ones, and everyone else is interchangeable. Stevens is one of those truly great coaches, and he’s using Horford in a far more efficient way than he’s previously been used. It’s the same reason why Pop can lead a team composed of a washed up star and a bunch of nobodies to the playoffs.