Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Manafort jury asks judge what to do if they can't come to consensus on a single count. Board lawyers, what typically happens here? Is it a hung jury if they're unanimous on 17 of the 18 counts, but they cannot agree on one? Can the jury tell the judge/legal teams what their finding is for the other 17 charges? Because (hypothetically) if Manafort is guilty on 17 counts, I could easily believe the prosecutors would be willing to just drop charge #18 (whichever it is). On the whole, I'm encouraged by this. I think he's guilty, and I think it's very unlikely that the jury decided he was innocent of 17 charges but they're hung on charge #18. It seems to me that it's a lot more likely that he's been found guilty on 10+ charges, and they're just stuck on one particular point. Wouldn’t the verdicts of the 17 charges stick, regardless if they’re innocent or guilty, and the remaining charge, if hung, can be retried if the prosecution chooses to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Manafort jury asks judge what to do if they can't come to consensus on a single count. Board lawyers, what typically happens here? Is it a hung jury if they're unanimous on 17 of the 18 counts, but they cannot agree on one? Can the jury tell the judge/legal teams what their finding is for the other 17 charges? Because (hypothetically) if Manafort is guilty on 17 counts, I could easily believe the prosecutors would be willing to just drop charge #18 (whichever it is). On the whole, I'm encouraged by this. I think he's guilty, and I think it's very unlikely that the jury decided he was innocent of 17 charges but they're hung on charge #18. It seems to me that it's a lot more likely that he's been found guilty on 10+ charges, and they're just stuck on one particular point. I think it depends upon the nature of the charges levied against Manafort. If they are hung on a "lesser included offense" they can still convict on the bigger charge. Same if they are hung on the more serious charge, they can convict on the lesser charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Michael Cohen in talks to plead guilty. Quote Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump's former personal attorney, is in talks to plead guilty to criminal charges in a deal that would bring an end to a months-long investigation that has riled the President, according to sources familiar with the matter. The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen. As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial. Not unexpected, but still more bad news for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Suit against Christopher Steele by three Russian oligarchs thrown out by judge: Quote Quote .... In January 2017, the website Buzzfeed published the dossier, igniting a political firestorm. More than a year later, the oligarchs sued Steele in Washington DC. In March, Steele responded with a motion filed under “anti-Slapp” legislation. He argued that the Russians were trying to shut down a legitimate subject for public debate. Epstein’s judgment on Monday was, in places, withering. The oligarchs had argued Steele did not enjoy first-amendment protections because he was British rather than American. The judge said this was “ironic” given the fact the billionaires had Russian and Israeli citizenships, and had gone to a US court seeking redress for their grievances. Of the dossier, the judge said it “plainly concerns” an issue of public interest – whether the Kremlin interfered in the 2016 US presidential election. He wrote: “The Steele dossier generated so much interest and attention in the US precisely because its contents relate to active public debates here.” Steele’s legal battles are not yet over, but Monday’s ruling is a significant victory.... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/21/author-of-trump-russia-dossier-wins-libel-case-in-us-court-christopher-steele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Zog Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I'm not a lawyer, but... I was on a jury that convicted on one count (violation of a restraining order) and hung on the second count (assault). The conviction stood, and the prosecutors had the option to retry the defendant on the second count. (But I doubt they did.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Old Zog said: I'm not a lawyer, but... I was on a jury that convicted on one count (violation of a restraining order) and hung on the second count (assault). The conviction stood, and the prosecutors had the option to retry the defendant on the second count. (But I doubt they did.) That's how it works. If they're hung up on the single count, the prosecutors will probably just drop it and focus on the other 17 counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Cohen, Flynn, Papadopoulus, Gates, Manafort (pending), a slew of oligarchs and the Russian government more generally........maybe it’s time for a reversal in which “witchhunt” is used to signify a totally justified and needed cleansing of fucking witches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, Morpheus said: Cohen, Flynn, Papadopoulus, Gates, Manafort (pending), a slew of oligarchs and the Russian government more generally........maybe it’s time for a reversal in which “witchhunt” is used to signify a totally justified and needed cleansing of fucking witches. Don't leave out the Microsoft anti-Russian hacking of Rethug think tanks and senators that hit the news today -- while, of course, the nazis in charge have done NOTHING at all to secure our voting -- only to remove the opportunities to vote for poor black / white Dems, as the not even bothering to hide it closing of 30 polling places in the poorest, blackest part of Georgia by rethug racist officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Manafort has been found Guilty on 8 of the 10 counts. Just heard on CNN and still developing. Yeah, misheard that, deadlock on 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 It's 8 of the 18. Found guilty on 8, undecided on the other 10. https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1032004548938874880 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 So are any of the guilty verdicts for the crimes which promise long jail sentences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 WHAT ABOUT JARED?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Morpheus said: So are any of the guilty verdicts for the crimes which promise long jail sentences? Up to 240 years, per this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 By my math, those 8 charges carry a total sentence of up to 90 years in prison. Sounds like somebody should have taken a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Surely Trump will just pardon the guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Maithanet said: By my math, those 8 charges carry a total sentence of up to 90 years in prison. Sounds like somebody should have taken a deal. There are appeals. And there is the pardon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Also https://twitter.com/justinsink/status/1032006096859410432 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 It is a bad day for Trump. Prepare for a week of Republicans claiming none of this has anything to do with the president and for further escalation of calls to end the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 And Trump has a rally tonight, prime opportunity for futher self-destructive behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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