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•Brandon Ice Eyes

Ned Stark and Roose Bolton

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Soo, I know this seems random and frankly irrelevant but I was just curious and couldn’t find an answer. So did ned stark ever visit the dreadfort and roose bolton. Arya recalls Ned taking her to white harbour twice and Jon recalls Ned claiming that he never ate half so well as he did when he feasted with the mountain clansmen so it’s obvious that he travelled to different northmens keeps, but do you imagine he went to the dreadfort as that would be very awkward I’d imagine. Admittedly there’s barely any evidence in the text for my question so just looking for a decent answer, not a definite one, Thanks :)

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There is nothing concrete in the text about Ned going to the Dreadfort. All we know is Ned's mentioning Roose when the latter suggested Robert to have Barristan executed after battle. 

But Jon thinks this in DwD, which might be an indication that Roose visited Winterfell or Ned took Jon at the Dreadfort before AGoT:

"Eddard Stark had never had any reason to complain of the Lord of the Dreadfort, so far as Jon knew, but even so he had never trusted him, with his whispery voice and his pale, pale eyes." 

So it's either: Jon has met Roose personally at the Dreadfort/Winterfell, or Eddard was telling tales to his kids of his vassals, describing Roose with pale eyes.

But Jon's description of Roose is quite personal: "pale, pale eyes", sounds as if he's seen him. So we can't be sure.

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18 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Soo, I know this seems random and frankly irrelevant but I was just curious and couldn’t find an answer. So did ned stark ever visit the dreadfort and roose bolton. Arya recalls Ned taking her to white harbour twice and Jon recalls Ned claiming that he never ate half so well as he did when he feasted with the mountain clansmen so it’s obvious that he travelled to different northmens keeps, but do you imagine he went to the dreadfort as that would be very awkward I’d imagine. Admittedly there’s barely any evidence in the text for my question so just looking for a decent answer, not a definite one, Thanks :)

I think this indicates that Arya at least has never met Roose before.

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Itwas almost evenfall when the new master of Harrenhal arrived. He had a plain face, beardless and ordinary, notable only for his queer pale eyes. Neitherplump, thin, nor muscular, he wore black ringmail and a spotted pink cloak. The sigil on his banner looked like a man dipped in blood. "On your knees for the Lord of the Dreadfort!" shouted his squire, a boy no older than Arya, and Harrenhal knelt.
Vargo Hoat came forward. "My lord, Harrenhal ith yourth."

Surely she would have acknowledged recognizing him?

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14 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I think this indicates that Arya at least has never met Roose before.

Surely she would have acknowledged recognizing him?

Or it’s GRRM using Arya’s perspective for a description of Roose as a surprise reveal. Arya never actually reacts with confusion as to who Roose is. In fact, I’d argue that her hesitation to reveal her real identity to Roose is proof that she did meet him in the past, and knows the Boltons’ history with the Starks.

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The 'pale, pale eyes' quote that The Sunland Lord mentioned + this:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV
There are risks and risks, Ser Richard. This one … it is too much, too soon, too far away. I know the Dreadfort. It is a strong castle, all of stone, with thick walls and massive towers. With winter coming you will find it well provisioned. Centuries ago, House Bolton rose up against the King in the North, and Harlon Stark laid siege to the Dreadfort. It took him two years to starve them out. To have any hope of taking the castle, Your Grace would need siege engines, towers, battering rams …"

Suggests to me that Jon has visited the Dreadfort.

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Quote

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

The horn had stirred the castle from sleep; men were coming out into the ward to see what the commotion was about. Arya fell in with the others. A line of ox carts were rumbling under the portcullis. Plunder, she knew at once. The riders escorting the carts spoke in a babble of queer tongues. Their armor glinted pale in the moonlight, and she saw a pair of striped black-and-white zorses. The Bloody Mummers. Arya withdrew a little deeper into the shadows, and watched as a huge black bear rolled by, caged in the back of a wagon. Other carts were loaded down with silver plate, weapons and shields, bags of flour, pens of squealing hogs and scrawny dogs and chickens. Arya was thinking how long it had been since she'd had a slice off a pork roast when she saw the first of the prisoners.
By his bearing and the proud way he held his head, he must have been a lord. She could see mail glinting beneath his torn red surcoat. At first Arya took him for a Lannister, but when he passed near a torch she saw his device was a silver fist, not a lion. His wrists were bound tightly, and a rope around one ankle tied him to the man behind him, and him to the man behind him, so the whole column had to shuffle along in a lurching lockstep. Many of the captives were wounded. If any halted, one of the riders would trot up and give him a lick of the whip to get him moving again. She tried to judge how many prisoners there were, but lost count before she got to fifty. There were twice that many at least. Their clothing was stained with mud and blood, and in the torchlight it was hard to make out all their badges and sigils, but some of those Arya glimpsed she recognized. Twin towers. Sunburst. Bloody man. Battle-axe. The battle-axe is for Cerwyn, and the white sun on black is Karstark. They're northmen. My father's men, and Robb's. She didn't like to think what that might mean.
The Bloody Mummers began to dismount. Stableboys emerged sleepy from their straw to tend their lathered horses. One of the riders was shouting for ale. The noise brought Ser Amory Lorch out onto the covered gallery above the ward, flanked by two torchbearers. Goat-helmed Vargo Hoat reined up below him. "My lord cathellan," the sellsword said. He had a thick, slobbery voice, as if his tongue was too big for his mouth.

I know previously Arya tells us she doesn't know sigils well, but she seems to know Northern houses in this passage. So why would she not have said "that is the Bolton sigil, blah blah blah". I understand not knowing a Riverlands house...

 

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We know Roose Bolton had been to Winterfell previously, more than once, from Theon recalling (somewhere in Dance w/Dragons) that he'd made fun of the scary lord, back in happier times. It would figure that, as a Stark bannerman, Bolton would visit his lege lord; we also know that Winterfell traditionally hosted harvest feasts, as Lord Bran describes presiding over one of them in Game of Thrones (book 1).

If Lord Eddard visits the tribesmen, it is not unreasonable to assume that he visits his other bannerman, including Bolton in the Dreadfort. We also know, from Roose's reminiscences in Dance that his son Dominic was a great friend of lady Lyanna Stark. We can presume Lyanna visited Dominic at the Dreadfort.

So why doesn't Arya come right out and name the House names, instead of describing their banners?

(1) she may not be as up on heraldry as Sansa and doesn't know them all, or

(2) GRRM may be wanting to describe the sigils for us, the reader, or

(3) Some or all of the House names are obvious to Arya, but she chooses to refer to their sigils instead of the family name, like calling Lannisters "lions", Greyjoys "krakens" etc.

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30 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

I doubt Ned ever wanted to go to the Dreadfort, and Roose didn't want him there even more so. 

The "wanting" would be irrelevant - Bolton was a Stark bannerman. Ned was obligated to do things like visit, to assure Bolton's readiness for winter, view the condition of his lands and people, test his hospitality, ensure that Bolton would be able to provide military support as required. Bolton would be obligated to visit Winterfell for important celebratory occasions, contribute to the harvest feasts, show respect for his liege lord. We've seen numerous references to these basic feudal duties. Ned Stark is nothing if not dutiful and responsible.

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10 minutes ago, zandru said:

We know Roose Bolton had been to Winterfell previously, more than once, from Theon recalling (somewhere in Dance w/Dragons) that he'd made fun of the scary lord, back in happier times.

Could also be when Robb called his banners. That's a confirmed Theon&Roose meeting.

 

10 minutes ago, zandru said:

We also know, from Roose's reminiscences in Dance that his son Dominic was a great friend of lady Lyanna Stark. We can presume Lyanna visited Dominic at the Dreadfort.

Um...

It's "Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him" and  "In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort's sons".

 

Edited by wia

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2 minutes ago, wia said:

It's "Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him" and  "In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort's sons".

Thanks - I remembered that there was ambiguity in the Domeric/Lyanna connection, but not the exact wording.

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20 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Soo, I know this seems random and frankly irrelevant but I was just curious and couldn’t find an answer. So did ned stark ever visit the dreadfort and roose bolton. Arya recalls Ned taking her to white harbour twice and Jon recalls Ned claiming that he never ate half so well as he did when he feasted with the mountain clansmen so it’s obvious that he travelled to different northmens keeps, but do you imagine he went to the dreadfort as that would be very awkward I’d imagine. Admittedly there’s barely any evidence in the text for my question so just looking for a decent answer, not a definite one, Thanks :)

Jon mentions to Stannis that he"knows the Dreadfort" suggesting that he has visited at least once.  And there is no real reason not to.  At the very least, it lets Roose know that Ned is keeping an eye on him and ensuring he isn't misbehaving too obviously.

By the way, I expect that the visits to White Harbour were more because it is the North's only city and its commercial center than visiting the Manderlys (although I expect that was on the itinerary).  Do some serious shopping, see the sights, catch a show, or whatever it is you do in a city in Westeros.

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10 hours ago, zandru said:

Thanks - I remembered that there was ambiguity in the Domeric/Lyanna connection, but not the exact wording.

I've always taken it as Roose simply comparing his own son to the greatest horseman he'd known, who just happened to be a chick: Lyanna.  Comparing Domeric's abilities on a horse to those of Lyanna would be akin to a noble from the Reach comparing his son's skills ahorse to those of Loras Tyrell.

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9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Jon mentions to Stannis that he"knows the Dreadfort" suggesting that he has visited at least once.  And there is no real reason not to.  At the very least, it lets Roose know that Ned is keeping an eye on him and ensuring he isn't misbehaving too obviously.

By the way, I expect that the visits to White Harbour were more because it is the North's only city and its commercial center than visiting the Manderlys (although I expect that was on the itinerary).  Do some serious shopping, see the sights, catch a show, or whatever it is you do in a city in Westeros.

Man, Ned really did not leave Jon out of ANYTHING. It took Catelyn being a bitch to keep Jon off the dais at the feast for King Robert.

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19 hours ago, wia said:

Could also be when Robb called his banners. That's a confirmed Theon&Roose meeting.

You're right, it was before Robb split his army at the Twins.

Quote

The hall [of the Gatehouse Tower] was dark stone, high ceilinged and drafty, full of drifting smoke, its stone walls spotted by huge patches of pale lichen. A peat fire burned low in a hearth blackened by the hotter blazes of years past. A massive table of carved stone filled the chamber, as it had for centuries. There was where I sat, the last time I was here, he remembered. Robb was at the head of the table, with the Greatjon to his right and Roose Bolton on his left. The Glovers sat next to Helman Tallhart. Karstark and his sons were across from them. (ADWD Reek II)

Quote

Once, a boy called Theon Greyjoy had enjoyed tweaking Bolton as they sat at council with Robb Stark, mocking his soft voice and making japes about leeches. He must have been mad. This is no man to jape with. You had only to look at Bolton to know that he had more cruelty in his pinky toe than all the Freys combined. (ADWD Reek II)

 

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On 10/21/2018 at 5:00 PM, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Soo, I know this seems random and frankly irrelevant but I was just curious and couldn’t find an answer. So did ned stark ever visit the dreadfort and roose bolton. Arya recalls Ned taking her to white harbour twice and Jon recalls Ned claiming that he never ate half so well as he did when he feasted with the mountain clansmen so it’s obvious that he travelled to different northmens keeps, but do you imagine he went to the dreadfort as that would be very awkward I’d imagine. Admittedly there’s barely any evidence in the text for my question so just looking for a decent answer, not a definite one, Thanks :)

I would assume he did. He traveled everywhere else in the north. 

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On 10/21/2018 at 8:00 PM, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Soo, I know this seems random and frankly irrelevant but I was just curious and couldn’t find an answer. So did ned stark ever visit the dreadfort and roose bolton. Arya recalls Ned taking her to white harbour twice and Jon recalls Ned claiming that he never ate half so well as he did when he feasted with the mountain clansmen so it’s obvious that he travelled to different northmens keeps, but do you imagine he went to the dreadfort as that would be very awkward I’d imagine. Admittedly there’s barely any evidence in the text for my question so just looking for a decent answer, not a definite one, Thanks :)

This is pure conjecture, far from conclusive and in all ways speculation....however, while I won't say whether i think Ned ever visited, I think it is fairly certain that when Roose married Bethany Ryswell that Lord Rickard would have gone to the dreadfort to observe the ceremony. As such he very likely might have brought his family and other important members of his household to show respect to one of his most important Vassals marrying the eldest daughter of another Vassal.

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