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Igziabeher

Samwell's response?

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17 minutes ago, darmody said:

Usually the doctor isn't the one who gives you the disease or injury. 

Well, yeah. The point is delivering news the other person will not want to hear

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3 minutes ago, darmody said:

Negan was rather inconsistent on that count in his rulership. Some enemies he pulled into his bosom and loved like childhood buddies. Others he turned into slaves or forced to marry him. He was decent to the main cast even though they killed like 40 of his men, but less threatening groups were wiped out. 

Danny needs to pick a lane, too. Be Miss Wheel Breaker and do whatever she wants or fit in. 

I don't want to go too far off the track here, but we all know these hugely successful series borrow from each other.  We could compare The Governor, Negan, and The Alpha but what would be the point truly.  We all know Negan wins because he shows up in the later comic series "Into the Badlands".... Yes,  He is a Land Baron.

Anyway, we're here to talk about GoT.   So, what I was going for there is that I think it was Negan that stated in this last season of Walking Dead that the trouble is no one think they're the bad guy... Something similar.   Also, with GoT, people are a resource.  Jon talks about it all the time: uniting armies who have been enemies for centuries because none of that matters if everyone is DEAD.

Jamie was right when he spoke last to Cersei: "When the fighting in the North is over, someone wins — you understand that, don't you? If the dead win, they march south and kill us all. If the living win, and we've betrayed them, they march south and kill us all!"

 

Cersei's plan was a no go situation.  Anyway, my point is there is no clear path beyond this that leads to an ultimate goal.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Well, FIRST conquering the Iron Throne and THEN make people submit and bend the knee would be more sensible.

At the moment, Daenery is just an intruder with armies, but not a Westerosi queen, by no definition at all. 

Yes, but she needs to be ruler and not just an applicant.

And they are right to do so. Sam's performance is the best and his scenes are also the best written ones, the best dialogues of S8E1.

As to that, the main thing people have their panties in a bunch about is that, after defeating the iron throne’s forces, she demanded the leaders bend the knee and executed them after they refused to do so, and to take the black.  Simply put—that’s how you establish a monarchy, or is this case re establish one. 

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9 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

Hi, I think your argument is well thought out and expressed.  I would extend that to the following:

1) Agree with Cersei and Dany kills the lot of you.

2) The converse (not logically true but in this case just so happens to be).

Dany does not feel she is a villain.  I don't feel she is, either.  She did what she felt needed to be done.

On the other hand, I felt Samwell put it best that Jon should be King (though we all know he won't) because he lay down his crown for the better of his people but Dany isn't likely to do that.  

I feel conflicted in this latter.   We aren't born with instruction manuals :)  How is someone supposed to be wholly good without a balance with tyranny.  Of course, those of us with Democratic governments already know the answer -- my opinion.   Cheers,

 

It is interesting to speculate on whether Dany would have "burnt them all", had the soldiers not bent the knee.  Maybe that's where we are going. (No, Dany, no!) We do know Cersei would, I agree.

I do think I agree with you and Sam on Jon vs. Dany.  I like Dany, so much of me hopes she doesn't go further into Mad Queen territory, but I guess I'll take whatever last gut punches George sends our way if it makes for a great ending! :-)

 

 

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23 hours ago, Spaßvogel said:

Did everyone in this thread skip the little "inside the episode" documentary right after the credits?  They specifically point out how Sam has two reactions, one for his father and one for his brother, and they praise the actor for his performance.

they don't show that after the initial airing.

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On 4/16/2019 at 3:49 PM, LadyNoOne said:

P.S. Dany did make a tiny reference to Sansa in S8E01 in that Sansa doesn't need to be her friend, but if she doesn't respect me... She was speaking to Jon.  I knew what she meant when she was speaking to Jon.  Same fate as the Tarlys.

i hope that didnt  happen.

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2 hours ago, Igziabeher said:

they don't show that after the initial airing.

I was wondering what this was referring to. I've never seen one of these.

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I thought Sams response was perfect. His reaction to his fathers death was shock and some sadness, quickly followed by a nervous joke that he could return home to see his brother. He then finds out Dickon is gone to and it breaks Sam. He is smart enough to know he has to remain polite to Dany and leaves to find his friend Jon and see what he knows about it. I think the scene as a whole was really well done.

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Posted (edited)

It's also worth noting that when Sam goes to break the news to Jon, and is fuelled by shock, grief and probably some anger, he has no clue that Jon and Daenerys are lovers. I suspect he would've been more restrained in his approach to Jon if he knew.
Not saying it's a good or a bad thing however, just an observation.
 

3 hours ago, princess brittany said:

i hope that didnt  happen.

No one here "knows" what was insinuated. At best people can speculate and make calculated guesses.
Daenerys would never tell Jon that his sister must respect her or she will have her executed.
It would not only be laughably foolish from a political standpoint, but would also be a quick way to cause their relationship to crash and burn, and Daenerys clearly doesn't want that. 

Edited by MinscS2

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

No one here "knows" what was insinuated. At best people can speculate and make calculated guesses.
Daenerys would never tell Jon that his sister must respect her or she will have her executed.
It would not only be laughably foolish from a political standpoint, but would also be a quick way to cause their relationship to crash and burn, and Daenerys clearly doesn't want that. 

To me it felt like, hey Jon, get your peeps on board. Not a threat but like if you brought a significant other to meet your family and someone was giving them the side eye, that S.O might make a similar comment to you. Like hey, they don't have to like me but common courtesy and respect needs to be shown as a minimum.

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9 hours ago, Igziabeher said:

they don't show that after the initial airing.

I watched it two days after the premiere on HBO Go and it was there.  It's always after the credits on the On Demand version. 

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8 hours ago, princess brittany said:

i hope that didnt  happen.

 

1 hour ago, Spaßvogel said:

I watched it two days after the premiere on HBO Go and it was there.  It's always after the credits on the On Demand version. 

When I watched it, (both when it premiered and on demand) it was within the episode itself, I guess about half-way through.  It was.. scary given what we know of Dany.  She didn't complete her sentence though. Eek!

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5 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

It's also worth noting that when Sam goes to break the news to Jon, and is fuelled by shock, grief and probably some anger, he has no clue that Jon and Daenerys are lovers. I suspect he would've been more restrained in his approach to Jon if he knew.
Not saying it's a good or a bad thing however, just an observation.
 

No one here "knows" what was insinuated. At best people can speculate and make calculated guesses.
Daenerys would never tell Jon that his sister must respect her or she will have her executed.
It would not only be laughably foolish from a political standpoint, but would also be a quick way to cause their relationship to crash and burn, and Daenerys clearly doesn't want that. 

Danaerys seemed to catch herself as she was saying it as if realising what she was saying and to who. What I believe is, that is her instinct and she struggles to keep her instincts in check. She's the dragon.

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26 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Danaerys seemed to catch herself as she was saying it as if realising what she was saying and to who. What I believe is, that is her instinct and she struggles to keep her instincts in check. She's the dragon.

No, she didn't "catch herself", she was interrupted mid-sentence by her dothraki main-man Qhono. (Who's pretty good at interrupting Jon and Dany it seems, given he interrupted them in S7 as well, when Daenerys was about to call out Jon on his death being just a "figure of speech".)

The whole scene is meant as suspense for the viewer, which evidently works given how many on these boards alone who are convinced that Daenerys was about to tell the man he loves that she's contemplating killing his sister and lady of winterfell over...what...not being as friendly as she hoped? 
Daenerys can be callous and impulsive, but she's not Cersei-levels of evil, which that would be.

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23 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

No, she didn't "catch herself", she was interrupted mid-sentence by her dothraki main-man Qhono. (Who's pretty good at interrupting Jon and Dany it seems, given he interrupted them in S7 as well, when Daenerys was about to call out Jon on his death being just a "figure of speech".)

The whole scene is meant as suspense for the viewer, which evidently works given how many on these boards alone who are convinced that Daenerys was about to tell the man he loves that she's contemplating killing his sister and lady of winterfell over...what...not being as friendly as she hoped? 
Daenerys can be callous and impulsive, but she's not Cersei-levels of evil, which that would be.

Ok then, what do you think her final words were going to be? 'If she can't respect me....' I'll have to write her a nice letter? I'll have to compliment her needlework? What is the price for disrespect?

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2 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

'If she can't respect me....' I'll have to write her a nice letter?

If she can't respect me... exactly, that is a clear threat that Daenerys will have to enforce her power, even with Sansa. 

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