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Kajjo

Death scene: Melisandre

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12 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I kinda thought that her difficulty of starting the fire ring had more to do with her self doubts she has had since Stannis.

I really wish they would have focused on that and given Mellisandre a little arc last season. Maybe giving her a crisis of fate after Jon telling her that "there's nooooooooooooooothiiiiiiiiiing".
They could have sent her to a temple in Essos in hopes of finding answers and confirmation of R'hllor's reality, only to find nothing but empty ritual there. After some soul searching she could have realized that until now all her actions were never in the Lord of Light's service or that of others, but only for herself, in hopes of earning a reward from her god.
She then would have had to decide whether fighting for the Dawn is still worth it, even without the security of an afterlife in R'hllor's glory and once she decides that yes, it is worth it....suddenly her powers start growing and she leaves for Winterfell.

Idk I think it would have been interesting.

Or something!  I thought she would return with a Volantis army.  So, what did she do there?  What did she find out? If she found out anything why didn't she tell someone?  Why didn't she even give any last words to Davos?  TV is supposed to show not tell, but this show doesn't show or tell, people walk around constantly facing death and danger and rarely exchange two words.  This is a woman who has been alive for hundreds of years, making mistakes, killing children, reading visions....and she goes out mute, not a last word to anyone.

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I really like Mel character, she is one of the more complex non-main character. But D&D obviously didn't know how to deal with her, so they used her in the easiest and most obnoxious way possible.

So, Mel is vital to the Long Night plot. Her goals deal with making the PTWP and Lightbringer,  killing the NK and stopping the Long Night - at all cost. But other than that? Without Others, she is directionless. So rather than expanding the plot into some other story, most probably emotional growth - based, D&D decided to bring her only in her dedicated setting, no background needed (duh). So when the NK plot is done, Mel is useless. I'd rather see her die with the sense of fulfillment than have her stashed into some corner of Essos because show writers can't use her properly.

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6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I thought self-conservation. She suddenly understands that he has absolutely no chance to win and that she made a horrible mistake. Stannis troops had deserted, no horses left, zero chance of winning. Stannis stubbornly going into the fight.

But that's not what she, as a coherent character, would ever think. She would stand at Stannis' side and only believe that he would not prevail the moment he and she were actually killed. Writing Melisandre in this fashion is just nonsense and basically destroyed the character. After all, they just brought the ultimate sacrifice. She would believe that the Lord of Light would grant them victory.

Afterwards she was completely useless.

6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, I agree. They probably decided against further depth and in favor of a more straight-forward story. I don't know why. I they could have easily made 10 or 12 episodes of season 8. They have enough stuff, enough issues to resolve, they could have had so many emotions, dialogue, developments. It's a pity.

I doubt Melisandre's story is that complex. There was a lot of time and opportunity to flash her out some more in seasons 6-8. Instead she didn't do a lot most of that time.

 

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4 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

We know what her motivation was.  To stop the Night King.  That was all that mattered to her.

When exactly was this established? She never talks to Stannis about the Lich King fellow, does she?

3 hours ago, Zumbs said:

Didn't Tyrion see a red priest sermon right around when he was captured by Jorah? Or am I mixing up the book and show?

In the books there is Benerro, the High Priest of the Red Temple of Volantis they overhear. In the show there is some woman priest there, I think, and she does show up later in Meereen, does she not?

But the point I was making is that there is no consistency in the prophecy stuff nor any attempt made to properly build that. I mean, Melisandre did a lot of things in the show and never was it explained what the reasoning behind all that was. As erratic a character as she was cannot really be cited if you want to understand what was truly going on since most of the stuff she ever said in the show was nonsense.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, King of the Couch said:

Berric died a long time ago but the Lord of Light kept bringing him back so he could fulfill HIS destiny, to save Aryas life in the hallway.

Bringing someone back from the dead over and over just so they can save a girl in a hallway. Sounds so god damn ridiculous.

Edited by Nihiloth90

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I think she did what she did because she knew she fulfilled her prophesy and she did need/want to be needed anymore. 

 

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Melisandre is not inherently evil -  it is simply that she sacrifices others for the greater good. Her goal was always to save mankind. A few died on the way to save the many

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I wonder if Mel is Azor Ahai - she was undoubtedly the saviour of the day - the irony being she spent years looking for AA when she was the lightbringer all along and never realised it

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14 hours ago, The Unborn said:

My take was that knowing she fulfilled her role in ending the threat, she was finally able to rest. She's a couple of hundred years old, she was fueled by R'hllor and was probably pretty tired. 

I didn't get the impression she committed suicide either. She was just finally allowed to die.

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3 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

Bringing someone back from the dead over and over just so they can save a girl in a hallway. Sounds so god damn ridiculous.

Well, Hodor's entire purpose in life was to hold a door. 

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18 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I kinda thought that her difficulty of starting the fire ring had more to do with her self doubts she has had since Stannis.

I really wish they would have focused on that and given Mellisandre a little arc last season. Maybe giving her a crisis of fate after Jon telling her that "there's nooooooooooooooothiiiiiiiiiing".
They could have sent her to a temple in Essos in hopes of finding answers and confirmation of R'hllor's reality, only to find nothing but empty ritual there. After some soul searching she could have realized that until now all her actions were never in the Lord of Light's service or that of others, but only for herself, in hopes of earning a reward from her god.
She then would have had to decide whether fighting for the Dawn is still worth it, even without the security of an afterlife in R'hllor's glory and once she decides that yes, it is worth it....suddenly her powers start growing and she leaves for Winterfell.

Idk I think it would have been interesting.

I agree with how deeply shaken her faith was. I just listened to a couple of podcasts on this that presented a version of what you are saying very well. They said Melisandre was not allowed to die until the night king was killed. She was very old, no one knew how old, much like Beric Dondarian who came back every time until the end. Her death, in the end, was her reward in a way of fulfilling her purpose. I think one thing helps support this is back when Stannis was alive and the Maester tried to poison her, she drank the poison and it had no effect on her. Everyone thought it was her power, but really it was that she could not die because she had to push people into place for this final battle.  I like this intrigue, how it isn't completely clear. But I think that this theory is better than mine. 

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18 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I kinda thought that her difficulty of starting the fire ring had more to do with her self doubts she has had since Stannis.

I really wish they would have focused on that and given Mellisandre a little arc last season. Maybe giving her a crisis of fate after Jon telling her that "there's nooooooooooooooothiiiiiiiiiing".
They could have sent her to a temple in Essos in hopes of finding answers and confirmation of R'hllor's reality, only to find nothing but empty ritual there. After some soul searching she could have realized that until now all her actions were never in the Lord of Light's service or that of others, but only for herself, in hopes of earning a reward from her god.
She then would have had to decide whether fighting for the Dawn is still worth it, even without the security of an afterlife in R'hllor's glory and once she decides that yes, it is worth it....suddenly her powers start growing and she leaves for Winterfell.

Idk I think it would have been interesting.

I didn't ponder on her trip to Volantis until now. But given that upon her return, as soon as she lights the fire, she finds Arya and the rest of her actions center on her. Perhaps in Volantis she got some clarity on Arya's role in the fight against the NK and the way they all played roles that worked in concert to defeat him, an idea that both she and Bran voiced. Before Melisandre had put all her focus on the person she believed to be R'hollor. I think possibly what she returned with was a better understanding of how R'holler could not succeed without others. 

Even though she seems to have chosen to die I think it is simply because she could, not really a suicide. She had lived so long and seen so much that she had no further desire to live once she was able to die. She would have died anyway but perhaps was allowed to be the author of her death.

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I'm more and more in the "Mel was rewarded with death"-camp.

We've noticed how she's obsessed with death, asking both Jon and Beric what death is like, and what's on the "other side".
We've also seen her remove her necklace on at least one occasion, and she didn't die and crumble out of old age then.

I think that now with her "mission/purpose" fulfilled, R'hllor rewarded her by letting her pass away. 

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I think they definitely should have explained her mission better, but my theory is that Melisandre was deliberately misled by the Lord of Light (or she deliberately misled Stannis/Jon/Daenerys).

The Lord of Light needed to get Stannis to the wall to save Jon, and sent Mel visions to make that happen.

Once that was over, He needed to save Jon because he was necessary to unite the north and the wildings and for Daenerys to fall in love with.

Then he sent her to push Daenerys towards Jon, so that their army would set up the situation needed to put Arya in the right place at the right time to kill the Night King.

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