Dragons 7th Eye Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said: When was that mentioned in the show? So dragons are capable of high-level deductive reasoning and emotional intelligence but they can't seem to be able to fly out of harm's way Even pigeons know how to move out of the way when something or someone comes at them. It was clearly shown in the show in the episode 6. Other than that GRRM is on the record on metalevel, if that is what you need. It is somewhere in the Citadel of this site on the So Spake Martin - section. There is a lot of denial going on, I guess it's natural. People are disappointed with the ending and many have been disappointed with the show for quite a while, myself included. But some things are what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 the petition has reached 1.3M lol https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nightwish said: And why the fuck are we supposed to like Starks after proving themselves super traitors and ungrateful? Why? For the simple reason that they are the Starks. Who somehow are above morals and laws and judgement and criticism because who doesn’t love the Starks? Especially if they are female Starks. Arya’s like... I know a killer when I see one. You do, girlfriend? Like when you look in the mirror? Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said: It was clearly shown in the show in the episode 6. Other than that GRRM is on the record on metalevel, if that is what you need. It is somewhere in the Citadel of this site on the So Spake Martin - section. There is a lot of denial going on, I guess it's natural. People are disappointed with the ending and many have been disappointed with the show for quite a while, myself included. But some things are what they are. I think you are confusing denial with dissatisfaction. The ending is disappointing in that it was thrown together and poorly planned. It's not disappointing because we didn't get what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nightwish said: You are referring though to the books here, and Dany's arc is still in development. So what's the use using the book arguments when they are not completed? But she did almost exactly the same in the show--burning the khals was utterly horrific and I don't know how anyone justified that at the time, either. It should have been seen then for what it was: an unspeakable atrocity, aided and abetted by Jorah who should have stopped her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons 7th Eye Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: I think you are confusing denial with dissatisfaction. The ending is disappointing in that it was thrown together. No. I am specifically not confusing them. I think people are not willing to look at the possible clever points - such as what Drogon might have done, but who knows with D&D - because the show itself went to shit a few seasons ago and even the general populace noticed this season. Denial is things like denying the dragons are intelligent, even if there is the word of the person who built the world saying so; because that leads to a small chance that D&D did that on purpose. If they did, it was pretty good. Even better if it started at the door and Drogon let Jon past knowing what he was going to do, because he must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said: For the simple reason that they are the Starks. Who somehow are above morals and laws and judgement and criticism because who doesn’t love the Starks? Especially if they are female Starks. Arya’s like... I know a killer when I see one. You do, girlfriend? Like when you look in the mirror? Jesus. The Starks are far from perfect. Arya is permanently damaged and a "dark heart". Bran has the potential to be a villain as well. Sansa is a manipulative, scheming witch who just used all the lessons she learned from Cersei and LF to get herself crowned Queen in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Dragons 7th Eye said: No. I am specifically not confusing them. I think people are not willing to look at the possible clever points - such as what Drogon might have done, but who knows with D&D - because the show itself went to shit a few seasons ago and even the general populace noticed this season. Denial is things like denying the dragons are intelligent, even if there is the word of the person who built the world saying so; because that leads to a small chance that D&D did that on purpose. If they did, it was pretty good. Even better if it started at the door and Drogon let Jon past knowing what he was going to do, because he must. But where is the writing that should be supporting the bold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said: For the simple reason that they are the Starks. Who somehow are above morals and laws and judgement and criticism because who doesn’t love the Starks? Especially if they are female Starks. Arya’s like... I know a killer when I see one. You do, girlfriend? Like when you look in the mirror? Jesus. I have no idea why jon doesn t hate sansa after she betrayed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Just now, divica said: I have no idea why jon doesn t hate sansa after she betrayed him... Jon is a blind fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons 7th Eye Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: But where is the writing that should be supporting the bold? In the Citadel in the So spake Martin, as I said. It's a big section without a search function - but it is there. He compared his dragons with Tolkien's. He said something along the lines of dragons being intelligent but unable to speak and thus they won't be discussing with people unlike Tolkien's dragons. Surely you don't think I am flat out lying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: But she did almost exactly the same in the show--burning the khals was utterly horrific and I don't know how anyone justified that at the time, either. It should have been seen then for what it was: an unspeakable atrocity, aided and abetted by Jorah who should have stopped her. She hasn't burned any Khals in the books, also her story is different, Tyrion hasn't reached her yet, Varys supports Aegon, and she managed to get her dragon of the arena saving people. No, it is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, divica said: I have no idea why jon doesn t hate sansa after she betrayed him... Stupidity, it's unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons 7th Eye Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, divica said: I have no idea why jon doesn t hate sansa after she betrayed him... Because she was right? Because she "betrayed him" to put him on the throne. Which would have been pretty damn wise in hind sight? 2 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said: Jon is a blind fool. Nah. He is just a bit straight forward like his Uncle he thought was his dad. And a lof ot the hate on Sansa is just blind hate. She did pretty well for herself and her people in a world that was not built to be a fairy tale or black and white. If it was, Ned would have his head. It isn't, Sansa learned to play and won. Some people just can't deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Dragons 7th Eye said: In the Citadel in the So spake Martin, as I said. It's a big section without a search function - but it is there. He compared his dragons with Tolkien's. He said something along the lines of dragons being intelligent but unable to speak and thus they won't be discussing with people unlike Tolkien's dragons. Surely you don't think I am flat out lying? No, of course I don't think you're lying. I wasn't being specific enough. Where is the writing that supports the bold part in the show? Because, in discussing the merits of the show's plot and character development (can't talk about the themes because themes are like tricks...just for kids), the show's writing should support the fact that dragons are highly intelligent but unable to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said: For the simple reason that they are the Starks. Who somehow are above morals and laws and judgement and criticism because who doesn’t love the Starks? Especially if they are female Starks. Arya’s like... I know a killer when I see one. You do, girlfriend? Like when you look in the mirror? Jesus. They could have used all of this biased plot armor nonsense, many seasons before saving us the drama of watching all this meaningless material about the WW and Jon's resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nightwish said: She hasn't burned any Khals in the books, also her story is different, Tyrion hasn't reached her yet, Varys supports Aegon, and she managed to get her dragon of the arena saving people. No, it is not the same. We're talking about the show as you pointed out. She burned the khals in the show. And she had Jorah. It's amazing to me the lengths people are going to to defend her. Do you do this in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said: Because she was right? Because she "betrayed him" to put him on the throne. Jon could not sit on the throne without either assassinating Daenerys or fighting a war against her and her dragons, which would most likely have ended with his death... Sansa wasn't doing him any favor... She was trying to either have him kill the woman he loved, or to be killed by her... that's not nice... And Sansa didn't even know Dany would turn a crazy pyromaniac... as far as she knew she was sane and helpful... 2 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said: And a lof ot the hate on Sansa is just blind hate. She did pretty well for herself and her people in a world that was not built to be a fairy tale or black and white. If it was, Ned would have his head. It isn't, Sansa learned to play and won. Some people just can't deal with it. The problem is, what she got, she did from her brothers's loss. Nice sister, she is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons 7th Eye Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: No, of course I don't think you're lying. I wasn't being specific enough. Where is the writing that supports the bold part in the show? Because, in discussing the merits of the show's plot and character development (can't talk about the themes because themes are like tricks...just for kids), the show's writing should support the fact that dragons are highly intelligent but unable to speak. Oh sorry. The Tyrion quote was from the show, I believe - some maesters thinking dragons are even more intelligent than men, but all thinking they are very intelligent. And in the end it doesn't matter. Even without that quote the dragons in this fantasy world are intelligent and if the show watchers find it out in the last episode, so what? (It is bad writing unless it is intentional, but hell - most of the show has been bad writing since season 4) The thing is - it is plausible that Drogon knew that Jon had to kill Dany and that afterwards he felt that Jon was in mourning as much as he was and; steered his rage at the throne instead of. It is possible but far fetched that Drogon understood even more and let Jon pass and it was not even anger but rather a task to burn the throne. Some people on the internet are saying that Drogon burned the city down last episode - which as far as I could make out was hours ago at most - and suddenly he has this moral and understands Dany needs to be stopped. But Dragons are bind to the will of their riders so the change too, is quite plausible. Was it that? Who knows with D&D. But it certainly is not impossible and really if anything it is almost too clever for the show since many seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: But she did almost exactly the same in the show--burning the khals was utterly horrific and I don't know how anyone justified that at the time, either. It should have been seen then for what it was: an unspeakable atrocity, aided and abetted by Jorah who should have stopped her. I was horrific, I agree. But the show runners went out of their way to show it as empowering, that’s how strong badass women roll, yay! That was the year we got all those pathetic magazine covers - yeah EWwwww, I’m looking at you most of all - with the female characters and the caption Women on Top or some such rubbish. Because that’s what they did, even though Dany’s sudden and unearned descent into madness was already the plan. Who cares about character development or being coherent, when you can pull the rug from under everyone’s feet because “OMFG SO SHOCKING!”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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