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Charles Stuart

Robert Baratheon - Not so bad after all

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19 hours ago, Charles Stuart said:

Am I the only one thinking that maybe Robert Baratheon wasn't so bad after all? Drank a lot, whored around a lot and certainly ate a lot, but the realm itself wasn't in a totally terrible state like it was afterwards under Lannister rule and post Daeny's invasion. 

Granted him being a shabby king led to the later events which ensued but I bet if you asked the people of King's landing which king they preferred, I would bet most would choose Robert. No blown up Septs, no burned cities, instead just endless feasts and tourneys.

#KingRobertwasbest

 

 

I don't understand why people called Robert Baratheon a usurper either.

He "DEFEATED" the crown prince in battle and crushed the king's forces.

He earned the throne. He believed Lyanna was kidnapped. Didn't know the truth. He lost his beloved and got a throne he had no joy in ruling without her.

He was never a "righteous", he was just a lord protesting against the injustice. The kidnapping, the murder of the starks etc.

So why do people expect him to think about the realm when he gets a throne yet lost everything?

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No.

We really don't get to see the realm post-Daenerys. Don't miss the point though. The realm is now on the up-and-up. That's the whole reason for ending the story with Bran as King. Whether you like that outcome or not, the point is that better days are ahead for the realm.

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1 hour ago, Cladinator said:

The realm is now on the up-and-up. That's the whole reason for ending the story with Bran as King. Whether you like that outcome or not, the point is that better days are ahead for the realm.

Are you sure?  In the last scene, Bran seemed like a pretty uninterested ruler.  Bran may not be a whoring drunkard like Robert Baratheon, but he is going to be spending most of his time wired into the Weirwood internet (sounds like my kids).  He is leaving the realm in the hands of that small council which is bickering over rebuilding brothels.  And btw, why did Bran ask for a Master of Whisperers and a Master of War? Blessed with foresight, what does Bran see in the future for the realm that would have a need for spies, espionage and war?

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28 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:

Robert should be canonized judging by other rulers after him.

Robert gave his brothers too much power and in turn they both rebelled against the throne. The guy went hunting instead of dealing with Starks and Lannisters fighting in the streets of Kings Landing and the Riverlands.

2 hours ago, Cladinator said:

 

We really don't get to see the realm post-Daenerys. Don't miss the point though. The realm is now on the up-and-up.

The realm is hardly on the up and up, Bran just gave a third of its land away without a fight. Kings who increase the size of the kingdom are lauded, Kings who decrease the size of the kingdom are belittled.

2 hours ago, robasp2 said:

I don't understand why people called Robert Baratheon a usurper either.

 

Because he usurped the throne from the rightful heirs to the throne, Viserys and Dany. He's a usurper.

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3 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Robert gave his brothers too much power and in turn they both rebelled against the throne. The guy went hunting instead of dealing with Starks and Lannisters fighting in the streets of Kings Landing and the Riverlands.

The realm is hardly on the up and up, Bran just gave a third of its land away without a fight. Kings who increase the size of the kingdom are lauded, Kings who decrease the size of the kingdom are belittled.

Because he usurped the throne from the rightful heirs to the throne, Viserys and Dany. He's a usurper.

Nobody is perfect,  what Westeros needs now more than ever is "God of Tits and Wine" ;) 

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Robert Baratheon was basically the Hugh Hefner of kings. Compared to Joff and the monster Dany becomes in the end he was rather great. Renly would probably have been a great king as well.

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Why is there this sudden belief that Brann is suddenly going to be active?  Did he warn anyone about the impending destruction of King's Landing.  Or you know, where the Night King was so that Arya might go do her thing BEFORE the attack on Winterfell?  Or maybe you know use his ravens to keep the ice spear from hitting the dragon that destroyed the wall.  Maybe he could have kept Rickon from running in a straight line?  Either Brann is a neutral observer to the events of man OR he set things up so that he was named king because he "knows what best for everyone" which Tyrion just talked to Jon about being a problem with rulers.  

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6 minutes ago, sifth said:

Robert Baratheon was basically the Hugh Hefner of kings. Compared to Joff and the monster Dany becomes in the end he was rather great. Renly would probably have been a great king as well.

Renly would be absolutely a terrible king. He's plotting to plunge Westeros into war. Trying to get Margeary into Robert's bed in order to establish Tyrels, who bought his ass. When the timing's right tell Robert about Jaime and Cersei, have them executed with the children on the spot, with Tywin marching into field. After the Stannis parley, instructs his commanders to kill him - I think Stannis would die shortly after Robert following this coup, if he stayed in KL.

Also his idea of a strong candidate (son, brother) is rather dangerous precedent going forward. Every younger son or brother can claim anything by show of force.

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1 minute ago, majgat said:

Renly would be absolutely a terrible king. He's plotting to plunge Westeros into war. Trying to get Margeary into Robert's bed in order to establish Tyrels, who bought his ass. When the timing's right tell Robert about Jaime and Cersei, have them executed with the children on the spot, with Tywin marching into field. After the Stannis parley, instructs his commanders to kill him - I think Stannis would die shortly after Robert following this coup, if he stayed in KL.

Also his idea of a strong candidate (son, brother) is rather dangerous precedent going forward. Every younger son or brother can claim anything by show of force.

Indeed, as far as I see, Renly would be even a worse king than Stannis. He is corrupted as hell, and that shit doesn't even care about the line of succession.

Donal Noye's categorization is very accurate; Robert was the true steel, Stannis was pure iron and Renly was just a copper; ''shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.''

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Indeed, as far as I see, Renly would be even a worse king than Stannis. He is corrupted as hell, and that shit doesn't even care about the line of succession.

Donal Noye's categorization is very accurate; Robert was the true steel, Stannis was pure iron and Renly was just a copper; ''shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.''

I forgot having the love of the people was a bad thing. You know that thing Renly had in spades. There’s a reason he had the biggest army at the time of his death and not Stannis, Robb or Tywin. Also are we really going to talk about the line of succession after that joke of a final, let alone how Robert won the game.

Edited by sifth

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, sifth said:

I forgot having the love of the people was a bad thing. You know that thing Renly had in spades. There’s a reason he had the biggest army at the time of his death and not Stannis, Robb or Tywin. Also are we really going to talk about the line of succession after that joke of a final, let alone how Robert won the game.

Yes, because he was in a secret sexual relationship with Loras Tyrell :D Which is a sin according the Faith of the Seven. It's hypocrisy to blame Robert for drinking and buying whores while Renly is doing the worse even before he becomes the king.

Renly would be a puppet at the hands of Margeary Tyrell shortly because of that secret. Renly spoiled by Loras Tyrell, nothing more.

As for the line of succession, not sure what you mean, everyone knew Stannis had the right, but Renly usurped his rights for no reason. Robert had plenty of reasons to rebel against the crown. Such as Aerys being a mad person and Rhaegar kidnaping his beloved.

Renly stole Stannis's right without any logical explanation. 

Edited by Erkan12

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2 hours ago, sifth said:

Robert Baratheon was basically the Hugh Hefner of kings. Compared to Joff and the monster Dany becomes in the end he was rather great. Renly would probably have been a great king as well.

Renly would have been the best King. All of Robert's charisma and good looks, but without the booze and lack of interest in ruling. Him and Marge would have been fantastic.

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1 minute ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Renly would have been the best King. All of Robert's charisma and good looks, but without the booze and lack of interest in ruling. Him and Marge would have been fantastic.

Accept they had major issues in the heir making department.

But I agree, politically, they would have ruled very well together.

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1 minute ago, ummester said:

Accept they had major issues in the heir making department.

But I agree, politically, they would have ruled very well together.

You're telling me you wouldn't be able to "perform" with someone you weren't attracted to? Gay people have been reproducing since forever.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

You're telling me you wouldn't be able to "perform" with someone you weren't attracted to?

Me personally, nah, can't do it. If I don't find it sexy I'm just not into it. I rather go without than shag something I don't find attractive. Vain, I guess? Or proud? But honest. I accept that we are all different though.

Edited by ummester

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

Yes, because he was in a secret sexual relationship with Loras Tyrell :D Which is a sin according the Faith of the Seven. It's hypocrisy to blame Robert for drinking and buying whores while Renly is doing the worse even before he becomes the king.

Renly would be a puppet at the hands of Margeary Tyrell shortly because of that secret. Renly spoiled by Loras Tyrell, nothing more.

As for the line of succession, not sure what you mean, everyone knew Stannis had the right, but Renly usurped his rights for no reason. Robert had plenty of reasons to rebel against the crown. Such as Aerys being a mad person and Rhaegar kidnaping his beloved.

Renly stole Stannis's right without any logical explanation. 

So being gay is just as bad as being a drunk? Plus if we're going by the books story, Loras and Renly were honestly in love and I don't think the show does anything to show us that Renly didn't love Loras as well.

Margeary was also a good person and tried to help Sansa and the poor people in Kings Landing. So yea, you're not really proving me wrong here. I mean heck Renly was even in favor of women's rights, just look at how he made Brienne a member of his Kingsguard.

Edited by sifth

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, sifth said:

You know the Faith Militant only existed because of Cersie being an idiot. With two smart people like Renly and Margeary running things, I honestly doubt they'd allow the Faith to take up arms again. Also in the books the Faith Militan hates Stannis for worshiping R'hllor, so yea I'm sure they'd have no issue at all with Renly taking Stannis place.

They came to KL because Tywin was dead, and they started to whip High Septon on the streets, one way or another, it could happen in the future. If not by force, then by manipulating other people.

Their enemies could manipulate others by using that Renly being a gay thing, to sum it up; Renly wasn't fit to rule. 

As for Stannis, I meant other lords would make a case against Renly, he is a guy who doesn't respect the line of succession for no reason, he would suffer the consquences in the future.

 

Edited by Erkan12

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

They came to KL because Tywin was dead, and they started to whip High Septon on the streets, one way or another, it could happen in the future. If not by force, then by manipulating other people.

Their enemies could manipulate others by using that Renly being a gay thing, to sum it up; Renly wasn't fit to rule. 

As for Stannis, I meant other lords would make a case against Renly, he is a guy who doesn't respect the line of succession for no reason, he would suffer the consquences in the future.

 

I talking about it happening legally. The Faith Militant were just a bunch of terrorist before Cersie legalized them. Renly and Margaery could have just called these people terrorist and fanatics, which is exactly what they were before Cersie did what she did. I honestly doubt Renly would every allow these crazy people to ever get any real power.

I honestly doubt most lords cared about Stannis. Just look at how few actually joined his cause when Renly was still alive

Edited by sifth

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