Jace, Extat Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Triskele said: Something far less funny: The Intercept has lots of the posts from that awful Facebook group. Definitely will be difficult to read / see for some people, so be warned. Ho, boy! Wowzers! That's a good'n! I for one am happy we all get to see these items. 1 hour ago, larrytheimp said: As she supports giving more money to Trump, hoping he'll improve conditions at detention camps. Just like they were going to stop separating families. Or follow a SC ruling in the census question. Wtf is Pelosi thinking? This is the kind of shit that reminds me that 99% of Dem politicians are, as solo would say, lumpenized anti-social nihilists. 1 hour ago, larrytheimp said: And why is she publicly alienating people like AOC who speak out against them and try to shine some light on the issue? I've made my feelings about Pelosi's decision on this matter clear, but I gotta say that I'm starting to get a little annoyed at AOC myself. Pelosi was right about the difference between activism and governing, and even though I am of a similar position as Ocassio-Cortez that the bill was a travesty (I just don't think anything should have been passed) at the end of the day she has a job to do on behalf of the Democratic party which is fall the fuck in line. The independent thinker shtick is getting old fast. She's a junior Representative from a reliably liberal district, not a Senator. And to be absolutely clear, I am not saying she should have voted for that horrific bill. But she shouldn't badmouth the Speaker in public, and Pelosi is far from blameless for folding like a lawn chair but the point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: Pelosi is thinking it's not acceptable that Democrats be responsible for the failure to improve conditions for the detainees. i don’t think that scans though. the democratic base is going to hold the gop solely responsible for the camps regardless (and republican vase wants them as cruel and horrible as possible, they love that shit) in this mcconnell era, hardball is the only game in town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 7 hours ago, a good and nice guy said: i don’t think that scans though. the democratic base is going to hold the gop solely responsible for the camps regardless (and republican vase wants them as cruel and horrible as possible, they love that shit) in this mcconnell era, hardball is the only game in town It's not the bases of either party Fragile Bird believes Pelosi was thinking about. It's the people in the middle who at this time will decide the election in close states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ormond said: It's not the bases of either party Fragile Bird believes Pelosi was thinking about. It's the people in the middle who at this time will decide the election in close states. Exactly. Democratic base is actually quite small. Democratic coalition is quite large. You need the latter and a few in the middle to win elections. As an aside, withholding money doesn't make conditions better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 But also hardly any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, Mexal said: Exactly. Democratic base is actually quite small. Democratic coalition is quite large. You need the latter and a few in the middle to win elections. As an aside, withholding money doesn't make conditions better. Pelosi was kind of in a vice. It wasn't just her being strategic. Moderate Democrat lawmakers were agitating, not very loudly, but they were. And Congress has only limited power to make conditions better. In particular with the Dems holding only the House. They could send the funding or not. We're facing an administration that wants to keep conditions bad. And the Executive has lots of power when it comes on the ground application. Trump thinks of this as both discouraging more immigration and feeding his base at the same time. Quote Top Republican fundraiser and Trump ally Elliott Broidy is under investigation by a federal grand jury over suspicions that he used his position as vice chairman of Trump’s inaugural committee to help him strike business deals with foreign leaders. The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Brooklyn recently sent a subpoena to Trump’s inaugural committee to gain records relating to 20 individuals and businesses all with connections to Broidy, according to the AP. He reportedly pursued business deals with the current president of Angola and two politicians in Romania. Investigators want to know if he violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which makes it illegal for U.S. citizens to offer foreign officials “anything of value” to get a business advantage. Federal Grand Jury Probing Top GOP Donor Elliott Broidy Over Trump Inauguration https://www.thedailybeast.com/elliott-broidy-federal-grand-jury-probing-top-gop-donor-over-trump-inauguration?ref=home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Pelosi was kind of in a vice. It wasn't just her being strategic. Moderate Democrat lawmakers were agitating, not very loudly, but they were. And Congress has only limited power to make conditions better. In particular with the Dems holding only the House. They could send the funding or not. We're facing an administration that wants to keep conditions bad. And the Executive has lots of power when it comes on the ground application. Trump thinks of this as both discouraging more immigration and feeding his base at the same time. She also had no leverage since Senate Dems voted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 40 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Pelosi was kind of in a vice. This may not have been on purpose, but that misspelling makes a great double meaning with "in a vise", which I think is what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Mexal said: She also had no leverage since Senate Dems voted for it. Yes, indeed. That is part of what I was trying to say. Pelosi was jammed with it. It's a fair point that she is Speaker and has the power to just hold it up. What's that look like though? Are we assuming the media will actually report on this favorably and say Pelosi is taking a courageous stand? A lot of the media reports will look a lot like what Republicans are saying, Pelosi is holding it all up. It was a loss, but I'm not seeing where a win was available here. It's a lot better when you hold both the House and Senate. Then you can jam the President with bills he doesn't want to pass, but is afraid to veto. Like when the Dems passed a minimum wage increase, Bush threatened to veto it, then was forced to back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Ormond said: It's not the bases of either party Fragile Bird believes Pelosi was thinking about. It's the people in the middle who at this time will decide the election in close states. what, people that are moderate on... concentration camps? the success or failure is going to laid at the feet of the party of the guy in charge, and again if one was at all inclined to vote dem in the first place, their “failure to improve conditions” is not going to be the issue, but republicans actually, y’know, creating those conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 31 minutes ago, Ormond said: This may not have been on purpose, but that misspelling makes a great double meaning with "in a vise", which I think is what you meant. Had to google it, because I was like "that's not a misspelling" turns out this is just another of those weird "American's spell words differently for some reason" things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 The big news around here, over the later part of yesterday into today, is the release of so much information around the combined FBI and NY Police arrest of Epstein, he of the pedo plane, on which 2 of our surviving 5 presidents have notoriously flown. It's all beyond disgusting. But the connections between Epstein and TVillain and so many others, again show how class and wealth work the levers of power at every level and do it for generations of families. Epstein began at the Dalton School, whose director is the father of Barr. Epstein modeled his modeling agency on TVillains. They all hung with the guy who created Victoria's Secret. It just goes on and on. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/08/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-charges.html? Quote For more than a decade, Mr. Epstein, a 66-year-old hedge fund manager, has avoided a lengthy prison sentence, largely because of a controversial plea agreement his lawyers struck with prosecutors in 2008. That deal shielded Mr. Epstein from federal charges in Florida.... ... The agreement was negotiated in part by Alexander Acosta, a former federal prosecutor who is now President Trump’s secretary of labor. Mr. Epstein’s social circle is filled with other high-profile connections, including to former President Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew of Britain and a host of others.... .... The plea agreement granted Mr. Epstein immunity from federal prosecution and let him plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. Federal prosecutors arranged for the plea deal to be kept secret from Mr. Epstein’s accusers until it was finalized in court. In April, a federal judge ruled that prosecutors had violated the law in offering the plea agreement without informing Mr. Epstein’s accusers. The Justice Department also opened a probe into the incident in February..... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/07/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-trump.html? Depraved is the word. Depraved applies to every aspect of this story, not least to the members of the legal system who worked so heroically to protect this monster and his monster cronies, including TVillain -- the countless photos of him and his manner of tourching the younger Ivanka .... In the meantime Gov Cuomo signed the release of TVillain's NY tax returns: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/08/nyregion/trump-ny-taxes-cuomo.html? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, a good and nice guy said: what, people that are moderate on... concentration camps? the success or failure is going to laid at the feet of the party of the guy in charge, and again if one was at all inclined to vote dem in the first place, their “failure to improve conditions” is not going to be the issue, but republicans actually, y’know, creating those conditions. No but their obstruction of a highly bipartisan Senate bill that would provide money that may improve conditions for no gain or leverage may not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Mexal said: No but their obstruction of a highly bipartisan Senate bill that would provide money that may improve conditions for no gain or leverage may not help. oh, so you think the deplorable conditions in the concentration camps is due to a lack of funding? that the ghouls running them — the very people that have created an entirely new racist word, killed who knows how many people through neglect... the dept where almost half of it’s employees have made racist or xenophobic (and often violent) fb posts — would just make everything ok if they had just a bit more cash to run things right?c’mon dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, a good and nice guy said: oh, so you think the deplorable conditions in the concentration camps is due to a lack of funding? that the ghouls running them — the very people that have created an entirely new racist word, killed who knows how many people through neglect... the dept where almost half of it’s employees have made racist or xenophobic (and often violent) fb posts — would just make everything ok if they had just a bit more cash to run things right?c’mon dude I get it. I'm not naive to the racism within the CBP nor to the administration as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, a good and nice guy said: oh, so you think the deplorable conditions in the concentration camps is due to a lack of funding? that the ghouls running them — the very people that have created an entirely new racist word, killed who knows how many people through neglect... the dept where almost half of it’s employees have made racist or xenophobic (and often violent) fb posts — would just make everything ok if they had just a bit more cash to run things right?c’mon dude In the context of Fragile Bird's original statement, it does not matter what you or I or Mexal believe about this. What matters is how one expects this will be reported in media that "moderate" voters (who almost by definition include many more people who pay little attention at all to news or politics, unlike those among the "bases") will see. And a lot of them ARE going to believe that "a bit more cash" would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ormond said: In the context of Fragile Bird's original statement, it does not matter what you or I or Mexal believe about this. What matters is how one expects this will be reported in media that "moderate" voters (who almost by definition include many more people who pay little attention at all to news or politics, unlike those among the "bases") will see. And a lot of them ARE going to believe that "a bit more cash" would help. Or at the very least, that money isn't the core issue and the Dems aren't the ones needlessly holding it up after the Senate passed the bill 88-9 (or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Do we have any confidence that the moneybwill be used to improve conditions and not simply step up enforcement? Once these 'centrist' voters are appeased in 2021 will the camps be disbanded? Or will what's becoming the status quo just be the new normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: Do we have any confidence that the moneybwill be used to improve conditions and not simply step up enforcement? Once these 'centrist' voters are appeased in 2021 will the camps be disbanded? Or will what's becoming the status quo just be the new normal? No confidence at all. Repeat this mantra about the Trump administration as often as needed: the cruelty is the point. Any more money will go straight into some crony's pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: No confidence at all. Repeat this mantra about the Trump administration as often as needed: the cruelty is the point. Any more money will go straight into some crony's pockets. This applies to everything that gets tax payer funding -- he and his fellow pillager-sadists take it. Personally. This applies to campaign funding even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.