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Rose of Red Lake

Timett will steal Alayne

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I think Timett is put in Sansa’s orbit for a reason.

Sansa sees him directly for the first time:

“Two of his men followed close behind him; a black-haired black-eyed sellsword who moved like a stalking cat, and a gaunt youth with an empty socket where one eye should have been” -Clash, Sansa I

He’s there for her traumatizing moments: 

“The Imp’s voice cracked like a whip, and suddenly Sansa was free. She stumbled to her knees, arms crossed over her chest, her breath ragged. “Is this your notion of chivalry, Ser Boros?” Tyrion Lannister demanded angrily. His pet sellsword stood with him, and one of his wildlings, the one with the burned eye.” - Clash, Sansa III

He escorts her back to her chambers:

“Yes, I see. A pity Stannis and Renly aren’t twelve-year-old girls as well. Bronn, Timett, bring her.”
Sansa moved as if in a dream. She thought the Imp’s men would take her back to her bedchamber in Maegor’s Holdfast, but instead they conducted her to the Tower of the Hand.” - Clash, Sansa III

Here Timett is put in position to run in with Sansa again:

“The Stone Crows are still in the kingswood. Shagga seems to have taken a fancy to the place. Timett led the Burned Men home, with all the plunder they took from Stannis’s camp after the fighting.” - Storm, Tyrion I

I think the Burned Men will attack at the tourney and Timett will steal Alayne. He may not recognize her right away because of her dark hair. However, he won’t harm her because she’ll say that she’s married to the half man, and then they will recognize each other. I think Sansa will have her own “wildling” storyline, although not as extensive as Jon’s. 

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Wow. Genuinely new theory and a good one.

Timmet, not Harry is the true heir to the Vale. 

 

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19 hours ago, Daendrew said:

Wow. Genuinely new theory and a good one.

Timmet, not Harry is the true heir to the Vale. 

 

I didn't watch the video, but the idea that Timett is the true heir to the Vale has been around for a while. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99159-timett-son-of-timett-lost-heir-to-the-vale/

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11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I didn't watch the video, but the idea that Timett is the true heir to the Vale has been around for a while. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99159-timett-son-of-timett-lost-heir-to-the-vale/

Yeah never said Alt Shift X came up with it. He doesn't come up with almost all the theories he talks about.

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As a story, this would be a huge and nonsensical waste of time, giving Sansa pointless travelogue and 'in the wild' chapters in TWoW. She can do infinitely more interesting things as Littlefinger's protegé.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

As a story, this would be a huge and nonsensical waste of time, giving Sansa pointless travelogue and 'in the wild' chapters in TWoW. She can do infinitely more interesting things as Littlefinger's protegé.

Speak for yourself. Interesting for other Sansa fans is her surviving on her own, mingling with a completely different group of people who aren't knights or lords

And who really wants more creepy kisses and inappropriate touching for Sansa. Pedophilic storylines are SO interesting and helpful for young women. /not

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22 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Speak for yourself. Interesting for other Sansa fans is her surviving on her own, mingling with a completely different group of people who aren't knights or lords

And who really wants more creepy kisses and inappropriate touching for Sansa. Pedophilic storylines are SO interesting and helpful for young women. /not

He can speak for me too. It wouldn't surprise me if the Burned Men attacked someone near the tourney and then got wiped out by the knights of the Vale.

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3 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He can speak for me too. It wouldn't surprise me if the Burned Men attacked someone near the tourney and then got wiped out by the knights of the Vale.

That misses the whole thing about Bronn being able to take out Ser Vardis. These knights are fighting gallantly for glory in a sports game while the mountain clans are fighting for real. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Speak for yourself. Interesting for other Sansa fans is her surviving on her own, mingling with a completely different group of people who aren't knights or lords.

Who do you think I speak for (aside from @Universal Sword Donor, apparently)? The invisible Lord Varys collective?

Most of George's stories with people surviving in the middle of nowhere are boring. That goes for most of Arya's story in ACoK and ASoS, for most of Bran's story in ACoK and ASoS, and, of course, for Brienne doing pretty much nothing in a lot of chapters (it is interesting world-building, at times, but it usually doesn't lead anywhere).

Sansa was a pawn from AGoT to ASoS. Now, as Littlefinger's protegé she is finally able to manipulate people and influence and shape actual political events. This is her way to power, not spending the bulk of her TWoW chapters (which likely won't be more than 3-5, anyway) with dirty wildlings in the middle of nowhere.

Quote

And who really wants more creepy kisses and inappropriate touching for Sansa. Pedophilic storylines are SO interesting and helpful for young women. /not

Nobody cares about that part of their relationship. But the man also teaches Sansa rather important things about politics and psychology - things she is most definitely not going to learn from the likes of Timett, son of Timett.

Not to mention that nobody would give a rat's ass about him being 'the rightful heir of the Vale'. He is a filthy, half-mad wildling. The men of the Vale wouldn't follow or acknowledge his ilk even if he looked like Artys Arryn incarnate.

If there is a point to the tourney then that something important is going to happen which needs a big gathering of knights to happen. For instance, the news about Prince Aegon arriving in the Vale, and Sansa using that opportunity to reveal her true identity and pleading and convincing the assembled knights and lords to declare war on the Lannisters. That is going to get her in the thick of things, not being at the mercy of some mad savage.

Edited by Lord Varys

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Who do you think I speak for (aside from @Universal Sword Donor, apparently)? The invisible Lord Varys collective?

Most of George's stories with people surviving in the middle of nowhere are boring. That goes for most of Arya's story in ACoK and ASoS, for most of Bran's story in ACoK and ASoS, and, of course, for Brienne doing pretty much nothing in a lot of chapters (it is interesting world-building, at times, but it usually doesn't lead anywhere).

Sansa was a pawn from AGoT to ASoS. Now, as Littlefinger's protegé she is finally able to manipulate people and influence and shape actual political events. This is her way to power, not spending the bulk of her TWoW chapters (which likely won't be more than 3-5, anyway) with dirty wildlings in the middle of nowhere.

Nobody cares about that part of their relationship. But the man also teaches Sansa rather important things about politics and psychology - things she is most definitely not going to learn from the likes of Timmett, son of Timmett.

Not to mention that nobody would give a rat's ass about him being 'the rightful heir of the Vale'. He is a filthy, half-mad wildling. The men of the Vale wouldn't follow or acknowledge his ilk even if he looked like Artys Arryn incarnate.

If there is a point to the tourney then that something important is going to happen which needs a big gathering of knights to happen. For instance, the news about Prince Aegon arriving in the Vale, and Sansa using that opportunity to reveal her true identity and pleading and convincing the assembled knights and lords to declare war on the Lannisters. That is going to get her in the thick of things, not being at the mercy of some mad savage.

I agree with this. Sansa being kidnapped by the burned men is just a silly fan-fantasy. Ever since the first Book, Sansa and Robb are the only stark siblings that have been living the typical highborn luxurious life. Whilst everyone else, like Jon, Arya, bran, and Rickon have had their fair share of living out in the wild or in the streets. We don’t need another boring storyline for another stark sibling. We already got that with Jon and his Adventures beyond the wall, and we are already reading it through Arya and bran. And honestly I find Arya and Brans chapters the most boring of all, although it has a nice build up, it’s still boring. Sansa’s and Jons chapters have all the intrigue that attracted me to reading these books.

Edited by The Young Maester

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GRRM had spent five books to bring Sansa to where she is now, and he did it not for her to be kidnapped and taken from there shortly afterwards. Littlefinger has some big plan, and Sansa plays in it a key role. He's not going to let her be stolen by some random wildling. He outsmarted even the great Olenna Tyrell, and prevented her from taking Sansa, and getting her flowery hands on The North, by marrying Sansa to Willas. Could be that Timett will appear at that tournament, but not to kidnap Sansa. If mountainmen of The Vale are related to mountainmen of The North, then he can bring news, that Stannis gathered mountain clans, and went with them to free Winterfell, and that Jon Snow is Lord Commander of Night's Watch (if Sansa doesn't know about that yet). And Timett will tell this info to Sansa, because he will recognize her.

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13 minutes ago, Megorova said:

GRRM had spent five books to bring Sansa to where she is now, and he did it not for her to be kidnapped and taken from there shortly afterwards. Littlefinger has some big plan, and Sansa plays in it a key role. He's not going to let her be stolen by some random wildling. He outsmarted even the great Olenna Tyrell, and prevented her from taking Sansa, and getting her flowery hands on The North, by marrying Sansa to Willas. Could be that Timett will appear at that tournament, but not to kidnap Sansa. If mountainmen of The Vale are related to mountainmen of The North, then he can bring news, that Stannis gathered mountain clans, and went with them to free Winterfell, and that Jon Snow is Lord Commander of Night's Watch (if Sansa doesn't know about that yet). And Timett will tell this info to Sansa, because he will recognize her.

The mountain clansmen of the Vale are not and have never been in contact with the northern mountain clans of the north. Vale Clansmen are Wildlings, and the northern clans hate wildlings. Sansa will probably find out that Jon is or was Lord commander through littlefinger, since Baelish wont see the harm on telling her that Jon Snow is dead. 

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29 minutes ago, Megorova said:

he can bring news, that Stannis gathered mountain clans, and went with them to free Winterfell, and that Jon Snow is Lord Commander of Night's Watch (if Sansa doesn't know about that yet).

She knows. 

Quote

Myranda gave her a shrewd little smile. "Yes, she was the very soul of wisdom, that good lady." She shifted her seat. "Why must mules be so bony and ill-tempered? Mya does not feed them enough. A nice fat mule would be more comfortable to ride. There's a new High Septon, did you know? Oh, and the Night's Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark's."

"Jon Snow?" she blurted out, surprised.

Alayne II, Feast

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Most of George's stories with people surviving in the middle of nowhere are boring. That goes for most of Arya's story in ACoK and ASoS, for most of Bran's story in ACoK and ASoS, and, of course, for Brienne doing pretty much nothing in a lot of chapters (it is interesting world-building, at times, but it usually doesn't lead anywhere).

If you can cite numerous examples of him writing these situations, then I think it's likely to happen for Sansa because he clearly enjoys writing that. We just enjoy different things.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 Sansa was a pawn from AGoT to ASoS. Now, as Littlefinger's protegé she is finally able to manipulate people and influence and shape actual political events. This is her way to power, not spending the bulk of her TWoW chapters (which likely won't be more than 3-5, anyway) with dirty wildlings in the middle of nowhere.

She's still a pawn any time LF is around and she is isolated. She needs allies of her own, because he is cutting them off from her and controlling what she's allowed to see or hear. She can't learn anything from him unless she has her own resources to draw from that have nothing to do with him. This is a typical abusive tactic. I personally think she can learn about politics and ruling from everyone, not just LF. 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If there is a point to the tourney then that something important is going to happen which needs a big gathering of knights to happen. For instance, the news about Prince Aegon arriving in the Vale, and Sansa using that opportunity to reveal her true identity and pleading and convincing the assembled knights and lords to declare war on the Lannisters. That is going to get her in the thick of things, not being at the mercy of some mad savage.

I rather enjoy the idea of people playing at war and then the war becomes real, unexpectedly and in a grotesque way. This happened with the fighting pits when Drogon showed up. The tourney will likely have a dark side because right now it's too "charmed" and "quaint." Reality will break through the fantasy. 

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

GRRM had spent five books to bring Sansa to where she is now, and he did it not for her to be kidnapped and taken from there shortly afterwards. Littlefinger has some big plan, and Sansa plays in it a key role. He's not going to let her be stolen by some random wildling. He outsmarted even the great Olenna Tyrell, and prevented her from taking Sansa, and getting her flowery hands on The North, by marrying Sansa to Willas

She was kidnapped and taken to the Vale against her will, so I'm not really bothered by more kidnappings because it seems inevitable. Shadrich is there too. Shadrich might take her from Timmet. This, and LF's plans to win back her "birthright," seem to be moving her out of the Vale.

I also think LF is losing his grip on things, he is drinking more and his lips are too loose. It makes sense to me, that he would lose his pawn. 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If you can cite numerous examples of him writing these situations, then I think it's likely to happen for Sansa because he clearly enjoys writing that. We just enjoy different things.

But he done doing stuff like that for the kids. Arya and Bran get a 'proper education' now, and so does Sansa. Nobody said she has to remain with Littlefinger until the end - but he is the mount she will ride to power and prominence, not Timett.

Quote

She's still a pawn any time LF is around and she is isolated. She needs allies of her own, because he is cutting them off from her and controlling what she's allowed to see or hear. She can't learn anything from him unless she has her own resources to draw from that have nothing to do with him. This is a typical abusive tactic. I personally think she can learn about politics and ruling from everyone, not just LF. 

You don't seem to be reading the chapters properly. Sansa does have as much influence over Littlefinger as he has over her (she is starting to manipulate him) and she is making connections with various other Vale people (Myranda, Harry, the knights coming to the tourney, Lothor Brune, etc.) - connections she will be able to use in the future.

Also, Littlefinger clearly wants Sansa to figure out and understand what he is doing. That's why he tells her how he fucks with the Lords of the Vale and how he takes over the Vale piece by piece. He includes her in those plans to the degree that he shares everything with her - not just the stuff she has to know (he also keeps some stuff from her, but that is usually an incentive for her to figure it out anyway - like she did when she realized Lyn Corbray was Petyr's man all along).

Littlefinger also lust after Sansa and wants to be loved by her - but he also wants her to make him proud as father, which means he wants her to excel at what he does. This is a rather complex weird relationship.

Quote

I rather enjoy the idea of people playing at war and then the war becomes real, unexpectedly and in a grotesque way. This happened with the fighting pits when Drogon showed up. The tourney will likely have a dark side because right now it's too "charmed" and "quaint." Reality will break through the fantasy. 

Well, at this point this tourney has yet to start. And if you want darkness, what about Sansa feeding her poor cousin the last dose of the poison to put him out his misery and make her Harry the new Lord of the Vale? Because that's rather likely to happen.

Sansa's obvious way to power is to wrap Harry around her little finger and then ensure that Lord Robert dies - because that means Littlefinger will no longer serve as Lord Protector (or rather not all that long, considering that Harry is either already an adult or pretty close to his sixteeenth nameday).

Edited by Lord Varys

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24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, at this point this tourney has yet to start. And if you want darkness, what about Sansa feeding her poor cousin the last dose of the poison to put him out his misery and make her Harry the new Lord of the Vale? Because that's rather likely to happen.

Sansa's obvious way to power is to wrap Harry around her little finger and then ensure that Lord Robert dies - because that means Littlefinger will no longer serve as Lord Protector (or rather not all that long, considering that Harry is either already an adult or pretty close to his sixteeenth nameday).

I very much take issue with this.  We have seen no indication in her POV that she has any interest in harming Robert.  On the contrary, she seems intent on making him stronger and more confident.  As for taking power, I see no interest on her part in power for its own sake.  She has seen what lust for power does to a person (Cersei and Joffrey), and I don't think wants to go there.  As for Harry, I am skeptical that she has any real interest in marrying him (or anyone else, at this point).

The rest I pretty much agree with you on.  Any kidnapping plot with Timmett would be a waste of time.   Her story is learning how to become a political player - but, unlike Baelish,Ccersei, etc. - one with a conscience; and then using that knowledge to destroy Littlefinger once she discovers his actions and true nature.  His mistake will be assuming that she is as uncaring of the welfare of others as he is.  That will lead to a split and his eventual doom.

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14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But he done doing stuff like that for the kids. Arya and Bran get a 'proper education' now, and so does Sansa. Nobody said she has to remain with Littlefinger until the end - but he is the mount she will ride to power and prominence, not Timmett.

Arya and Bran's "educators" also aren't physically molesting them. I think she needs to get away from him ASAP, and turn the tables by escaping. I'd rather have her find any way to escape LF creeping on her and as I explained, Timmett wouldn't actually harm her. 

I'm not saying he won't pop back into her story, but I do think this is a way for her to get exposed to all types of people, because as a prisoner, she's only interacted with nobles.

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You don't seem to be reading the chapters properly. Sansa does have as much influence over Littlefinger as he has over her (she is starting to manipulate him) and she is making connections with various other Vale people (Myranda, Harry, the knights coming to the tourney, Lothor Brune, etc.) - connections she will be able to use in the future.

I think you're not reading the storyline as abuser-victim who has been isolated and controlled. This storyline isn't good for Sansa. Her power is not equal to his right now, and she doesn't have "friends" in the Vale except for SR who is a little kid. You're not picking up on Myranda's jealousy and rivalry, or how Harry parallels Robert/Lyanna, or how her status as a bastard limits what she can do, or how LF can blackmail her for killing Lysa or SR. Sansa can manipulate LF better when she has people around her she knows and trusts. If not, LF will continue to draw up plans for how she'll be used, and Sansa will go along because she thinks she has no other choice. She's had no say in any of his plans and doesn't have the confidence right now to reject them. I think she needs a shock to the system. Like an opportunity to escape. 

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Arya and Bran's "educators" also aren't physically molesting them. I think she needs to get away from him ASAP, and turn the tables by escaping. I'd rather have her find any way to escape LF creeping on her and as I explained, Timmett wouldn't actually harm her. 

I'm not saying he won't pop back into her story, but I do think this is a way for her to get exposed to all types of people, because as a prisoner, she's only interacted with nobles.

I think you're not reading the storyline as abuser-victim who has been isolated and controlled. This storyline isn't good for Sansa. Her power is not equal to his right now, and she doesn't have "friends" in the Vale except for SR who is a little kid. You're not picking up on Myranda's jealousy and rivalry, or how Harry parallels Robert/Lyanna, or how her status as a bastard limits what she can do, or how LF can blackmail her for killing Lysa or SR. Sansa can manipulate LF better when she has people around her she knows and trusts. If not, LF will continue to draw up plans for how she'll be used, and Sansa will go along because she thinks she has no other choice. She's had no say in any of his plans and doesn't have the confidence right now to reject them. I think she needs a shock to the system. Like an opportunity to escape. 

I expect that one of the indicators of her becoming a player will be the ability to turn potential rivals/enemies into her friends.  I anticipate that Myranda will become a friend and ally.  Especially as I don't think Sansa has any real interest in Harry, outside of going along with LF's wishes. 

She has many other potential allies as well.  Most of the Vale lords wanted to fight alongside Robb, so will likely be predisposed to helping a Stark, especially against LF, whom they dislike intensely.  Yohn Royce is probably her best bet on this count.

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25 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I expect that one of the indicators of her becoming a player will be the ability to turn potential rivals/enemies into her friends.  I anticipate that Myranda will become a friend and ally.  Especially as I don't think Sansa has any real interest in Harry, outside of going along with LF's wishes. 

She has many other potential allies as well.  Most of the Vale lords wanted to fight alongside Robb, so will likely be predisposed to helping a Stark, especially against LF, whom they dislike intensely.  Yohn Royce is probably her best bet on this count.

I think something is wrong with Myranda and I don't put her in the "friend" box. She is very much another Margaery, who also pretended to be Sansa's friend. She keeps harping about how Alayne stole "her Harry." Myranda is also making comparisons between her boobs and Sansa's, and saying hers are better. Typical female rivalry stuff. Myranda also says, "well maybe I'LL marry the Lord Protector!" Also a rivalry statement. That's a typical one-up on Alayne and would make Myranda her mother in law. Good for Myranda, bad for Sansa.

I agree Yohn Royce will help, but I think Sansa will escape LF somewhere in Winds. Mainly because, I think LF is going to sexually assault her and she will be looking for an opportunity to leave after that. Enter, Timett, Schadrich or whoever--at that point I don't care just get her away from him. 

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