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Angel Eyes

What if Sansa was killed in King's Landing?

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So this was born from a thought I had on the Sansa's Betrayal Consequences Partly Overestimated thread, wondering if Sansa's overall importance to the plot is overestimated. Say at some point Joffrey decided to execute Sansa because he felt like it (and this should have been on Robb's mind since Joffrey executed Ned against advice) or when Robb won a victory that Meryn Trant hits her too hard in the head one day and she dies from bleeding on the brain. Would it have any bearing on the story? Sorry to be blunt.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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33 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So this was born from a thought I had on the Sansa's Betrayal Consequences Partly Overestimated thread, wondering if Sansa's overall importance to the plot is overestimated. Say at some point Joffrey decided to execute Sansa because he felt like it (and this should have been on Robb's mind since Joffrey executed Ned against advice) or when Robb won a victory that Meryn Trant hits her too hard in the head one day and she dies from bleeding on the brain. Would it have any bearing on the story? Sorry to be blunt.

I have not gone through the referenced thread.  Sansa's final role in the plot is unknown.  Just wait and see what GM has planned.  I would divide the characters into tiers in order of relevance to the overall story.

First Tier:  Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, Arya Stark, and Bran Stark.

Second Tier:  Sansa Stark, Cersei Lannister, Samwell Tarly, Jamie Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Theon Greyjoy, and Brienne of Tarth.

GM can change the rankings but if it maintains then her story arc is secondary.  But even a character who dies early can have a significant impact in the story.  Examples are Ned Stark and Prince Viserys.  We already know the effects.  Ned's death orphaned the Starks and caused Robb to think he can become king of the north.  The death of Prince (King) Viserys passed the ownership of Westeros to Princess Daenerys and his death paid for the dragons.  Three kings died, Viserys, Drogo, and Rhaego.  Three dragons were born. 

Sansa betrayed the Starks.  GM always intended for every family to have a turn coat.  Sansa is that for the Starks.  Tyrion is the traitor for the Lannisters.  Jon is the turn coat for the Nightswatch.  Sansa could have died at King's Landing after the betrayal and her part in the story was already significant.  The Starks failed to exit in secret the city because she confessed to Cersei. 

 

 

Edited by Targaryen Restoration

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2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Jaime would die immediately, the Tyrells and Dornish would not ally with KL and, yea. The story would be different

Why would the Tyrells and Dornish not ally with KL, if Sansa was dead?

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It depends, if she was killed before or after Jaime's escape. Before, if Robb had learned about her death, which I think the Lannisters would have done whatever they could to prevent that knowledge from getting out, of course, he would have killed Jaime and everything that has to do with his plot line would be different.

Other than that ppl would have one less useful pawn to play with. Her existence is not so important for the overall story yet at all. She is no Tyrion or Dany, she is not a main player.

But there are a lot of pov characters, that don't have a big influence on the overall story yet. The overall story wouldn't be that different without Bran, Arya or Sam f.e.

My prediction is that every pov character will play an important role, when it comes to the overall story before they die. 

Everyone needs to have at least a small function in the bigger picture. If they didn't have that yet, it means it will happen in the future.

Doesn't necessarily mean they'll survive, but they'll at least fulfill their function before they die.

 

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Sansa doesn't have affect on the plot ... just yet. By the looks of her training arc I would say she will be the lady of Winterfell and take care of the food, shelter, clothing etc. for the people and the army that will fight in the Battle for Dawn. These are very important - though often overlooked - part when facing a war. 

Quote

First Tier:  Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, Arya Stark, and Bran Stark.

Second Tier:  Sansa Stark, Cersei Lannister, Samwell Tarly, Jamie Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Theon Greyjoy, and Brienne of Tarth.

I would put Sansa in the first tier of POV characters. Her arc is so deeply intertwined with Arya's and Bran's. Besides GRRM has basically confirmed there 6 big characters, not five. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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When Sansa went missing during the riot, Tyrion was quite worried for her safety, fearing that if she died, Jaime would be next.  And that death wouldn't even have been the Lannisters' fault.  A deliberate killing would almost certainly have led to Jaime's death.  So, yes, her death would have had a direct effect on the story.

Also, Sansa is, at this point, one of the main characters of the story, and will likely be instrumental in the revival of the Starks.  So it would have indirectly affected the story as well.  I don't think GRRM had any intention of killing her, though.

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On 11/24/2019 at 11:48 PM, Nagini's Neville said:

Why would the Tyrells and Dornish not ally with KL, if Sansa was dead?

Cersei feared sending Myrcella mainly because of Rhaenya and Aegon. Sansas death call into question all hostages Lannister related.

Im of the belief that Tyrell only joined Lannister for the chance to enlist Sansa to Highgarden. However if Im mistaken, Tyrell would certainly not feel comfortable sending Margery to KL to replace the corpse of Sansa

On 11/25/2019 at 5:53 AM, Elegant Woes said:

I would put Sansa in the first tier of POV characters. 

I would also put Sansa in the first tier, but by herself lol. Second tier is Jon Dany Bran and Tyrion, the rest is third and lower

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@Hugorfonics You make an interesting point. If Sansa died at the hand of the Lannisters, things would turn very precarious for them. The already have a bad reputation because of what Tywin did to Elia Martell and her children and with Sansa's blood on their hands their reputation would be tainted beyond recognition. If Joffrey can do that to his betrothed who on Earth would trust their daughters with him? It would be Robert's rebellion all over again. Both the Tyrells and Martells would never ally themselves with them. Their reputation would be tainted to by association. The Lannisters would have lost the civil war. A dead Sansa means dead Lannisters. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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33 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Who in their right minds would trust their daughters with a sadistic brute like Joffrey if he can do such thing to his betrothed?

Killing Sansa would have been really really bad for them.

Somebody wanted to marry their daughter to The Mountain. Somebody clearly wasn't in their right mind...

Of course, Joffrey is the sort that couldn't care less what happens. He showed that when he had Ned executed and could have had Sansa executed if he felt like it.

 

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@Angel Eyes Just because Joffrey wouldn't care doesn't mean the rest of Westeros would do the same. Sansa's death would cause a huge uproar. Especially in the eyes of Martells and Tyrells. You don't think the death of Sansa wouldn't remind the Martells of what happened to Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon? The Tyrells would never allow Margaery to marry Joffrey. If the abuse that Sansa endured can push them to commit regicide than her death would make them to say neutral in the civil war. An alliance with the Tyrells is what allowed the Lannisters to win the Battle of Black Water. So if Sansa died chances are Stannis would have won. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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On 11/25/2019 at 2:15 AM, Targaryen Restoration said:

Sansa could have died at King's Landing after the betrayal and her part in the story was already significant.  The Starks failed to exit in secret the city because she confessed to Cersei.

This is what the betrayal thread discussed, at least in part - read it, at least the last few pages. The facts given at the time run straight against the interpretation above, but GRRM has since been running a major piece of misdirection. I would love to know why.

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@Big P Except Littlefinger doesn't have an arc. Sansa does. She's the one who has 25 chapters, a training arc and set up to be a key character in the Battle for Dawn. Littlefinger is an important character, but ultimately he's a villain meant to be slain by Sansa. His endgame is to be beheaded and his head spiked on the walls of Winterfell. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:15 PM, Targaryen Restoration said:

The death of Prince (King) Viserys passed the ownership of Westeros to Princess Daenerys and his death paid for the dragons.  Three kings died, Viserys, Drogo, and Rhaego.  Three dragons were born. 

Erhm. Sorry, but “ownership”? Really? I mean, Targs tend to be somewhat entitled, but even they don’t claim to own a continent. 

Also, Rhaego was never a king, since he died before Drogo. So, there you go. 

Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die kings.”

 

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