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Corvinus85

Star Wars The Clone Wars & The Bad Batch [Spoilers]

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One thing I've love for this show to cover: the elimination of the Jedi's legacy. Like they went from being these fairly well known warrior heroes to "that cookey old religion" real quick. I'd also love to see really early Vader and or least rumors of this scary guy in a black mask start to spread, but I don't expect to. 

47 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

After all, so far it seems the Imperials come from some unknown place where fascist officers are bred or manufactured.

It really does. It would have been great if our main imperial antagonist (rampart?) started off as a decent enough officer and then became corrupted by power. It's not like he has a chip in his brain. 

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1 minute ago, RumHam said:

I'd also love to see really early Vader and or least rumors of this scary guy in a black mask start to spread, but I don't expect to. 

I think it has to include at least rumors at some point. He's the Emperor's right hand man leading elite storm troopers to hunt down and destroy the remaining Jedi. I'm not saying BB need to go up against him (the opposite actually), but the shadow of the Dark Lord of the Sith needs to start spreading fear over the galaxy. (Something Tarkin later wants to replace with the Death Star to keep the systems in line).

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, if you create a complex setting you should also tell complex stories. It was the same with TCW where the Separatists were always stupid villains who lost nearly every battle they fought in. That said - I didn't really mean happy Imperials as such, but show that there are Imperial planets where the denizens are Imperials and not just folks occupied by Imperial military. After all, so far it seems the Imperials come from some unknown place where fascist officers are bred or manufactured.

After all, we see the entire Galactic Senate applaud Palpatine when he proclaims the Galactic Empire. Surely that must mean that quite a few planets in the former Republic honestly believe in and support the Empire.

Of course, it would make sense that the show would focus more on the anti-Empire worlds ... but they should also portray pro-Empire worlds occasionally.

Ryloth was sort of a happy Imperial planet, until the Empire started acting like the Empire.  Happy Empire planets are going to be boring for a tv show though.  They're just big planets full of people going to work in offices and factories, and going home to their houses to watch holo-net.  Maybe complaining about how the taxes are still high, but at least they have plenty of star destroyers and AT-ATs to build at the factory.  I think the only interesting stories you get out of that is when their eyes start getting opened to the bad things that are happening.  

Or you have to paint them as "kinda sorta" good guys, like that inferno squad novel did.  But personally I couldn't really muddle my way through reading that.  I got sick of the fascists justifying their evil by comparing themselves to terrorists.  Which was also a lot of what I got from the Tarkin book.  Neither really works well for a kids tv show.

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26 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

I think it has to include at least rumors at some point. He's the Emperor's right hand man leading elite storm troopers to hunt down and destroy the remaining Jedi. I'm not saying BB need to go up against him (the opposite actually), but the shadow of the Dark Lord of the Sith needs to start spreading fear over the galaxy. (Something Tarkin later wants to replace with the Death Star to keep the systems in line).

I always figured in universe Vader is more like a member of the United States secret service.  You might see him on the holonet occasionally, but no one is going to pay much attention to him because he doesn't seem to be in the hierarchy.   Everyone probably just assumes he's part of the Royal Guard or something, if they know about him at all.  I don't think Palpatine was advertising the inquisitors either, seeing as how they often operate with a sort of "leave no witnesses" methodology. 

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Posted (edited)

Eventually he's well known. Leia knew who he was (and the assumption Tarkin was "holding his leash"). "Darth Vader. Only could be so bold."

Granted, that's 18 years out.

Edited by Myrddin

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I assume that the BB will eventually run into a runaway Jedi, and either help or give a wide berth when the chips fall. At that point, we may see Vader. After all, they already have the CG model for him brought to current standards.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2021 at 6:51 AM, Myrddin said:

Chewbacca was definitely a cameo on the level you're accusing Mandalorian of doing. Wookie planet, fine (and cool, frankly). Having Chewbacca interact with Yoda? Of all the wookies, Yoda meets and befriends the same one that will become buddies with both Anakin's son and Anakin's daughter's future husband?

People also have forgotten the backlash of having Anakin create Threepio. 

I find the Sequel/Disney backlash fascinating. 20 years ago, the Internet was on fire with hate toward Lucas "raping their childhood". Now it's Disney doing it and Lucas' glory days now include episodes 1-6. I submit that nostalgia has colored how we all view the past movies, depending on what age we were when we first saw them.

My teenage boys love the prequels and originals equally. My younger son is vehement against the sequels. He considers them garbage as a whole, yet when I probe specifics, he can't support his dislike because there are so many cool moments he does like.

Don't get me wrong: There is plenty about the sequels I dislike, mainly the way they were making everything up and retconning with each episode to the point the last one held enough set pieces for a whole trilogy on its own. But I enjoyed them all overall. 

Maybe I'm just an old fart (New Hope was the first film I remember seeing in a theater), but Star Wars was never "good" just full of imagination and fun.

 

(And I know I replied to you, Deadlines, but my reply deviated from the cameo response. :) . Your post you became the springboard to this)

You're not wrong about Chewbacca and the 3PO thing was just weird. There may be a few more I'm just not remembering. There were definitely a few nods to the OT with bits of dialogue here and there, which was fine. But the recent stuff seems absolutely mired in all of it. 

I also remember the PT hate and thinking it was very mean spirited way overblown. But yeah, when it comes to world building, themes, concepts, and story, Lucas is great. When it comes to dialogue and directing actors, not so much. This is the reason TFA was such a massive hit: It actually looked like we were getting the former and the latter. Brilliant. It was enjoyed by all and made several moneys for the mouse.

Once people lived with it for a while, they realized that TFA was the most derivative SW film ever made. Not to overstate this, but people who accuse it of being a "remix" of ANH aren't wrong. That was before the dark times...

On 7/19/2021 at 8:56 AM, Lord Varys said:

The only place Lucas revisited in the PT is Tatooine, and the only OT guys that show up again are the droids and Chewie. And narrative-wise it certainly can make sense that Anakin comes from Tatooine, considering Luke's uncle and aunt also live there. And it is implied in ANH that Obi-Wan came to Anakin and dragged him his idealistic crusade.

Tatooine was always in the cards for the PT and the way they incorporated it was good, except for it being 3PO's home world. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

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7 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Well Rebels introduced in the final season wormholes through a planet and time travel. It gave us a creature completely neutral in the Force, and canonized Thrawn who did win plenty of battles, only to be defeated through unconventional means. 

Oh, I don't think Rebels is bad, mind you. There are interesting plots there, but the show had a similar slow start as The Bad Batch now, with a lot of characters giving guest appearances and such.

7 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The Bad Batch is too young of a show yet.

The entire Senate applauding also came down to most of them being corrupt. As we see in the latest BB episodes, senator Taa is clearly on the Empire's side, while the rest of the Twi'leks not so much. But I agree that it would be nice to see Imperial friendly worlds which the Empire doesn't have to occupy by force. But I don't know if the Bat Batch is the show to do it. Maybe in later seasons, but right now our main characters are confined to the Outer Rim.

The curious thing about Ryloth there is that we don't even know why the Imperials feel the need to mess with the Syndullas. Is something illicit/evil going on at that refinery? If so, they should have shown that. It would have been more interesting if, for the time being, Cham and his wife would have supported the Empire. After all, the Outer Rim suffered mostly during the Clone Wars, so the Republic worlds there should be more anti-Separatist than anti-Empire at that point.

By the way - is Taa dead now, or is he still alive as Rampart claimed?

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6 hours ago, RumHam said:

One thing I've love for this show to cover: the elimination of the Jedi's legacy. Like they went from being these fairly well known warrior heroes to "that cookey old religion" real quick. I'd also love to see really early Vader and or least rumors of this scary guy in a black mask start to spread, but I don't expect to. 

Since they have Tarkin, Vader should show up at one point, too.

6 hours ago, RumHam said:

It really does. It would have been great if our main imperial antagonist (rampart?) started off as a decent enough officer and then became corrupted by power. It's not like he has a chip in his brain. 

Yes, that could have been an interesting idea.

6 hours ago, argonak said:

Ryloth was sort of a happy Imperial planet, until the Empire started acting like the Empire.  Happy Empire planets are going to be boring for a tv show though.  They're just big planets full of people going to work in offices and factories, and going home to their houses to watch holo-net.  Maybe complaining about how the taxes are still high, but at least they have plenty of star destroyers and AT-ATs to build at the factory.  I think the only interesting stories you get out of that is when their eyes start getting opened to the bad things that are happening.

If they had given us a reason why they acted like the evil Empire it may have made more sense.

Going back to Raxus was a great idea - having the Empire terrorize former CIS worlds would make sense. They were the enemy during the Clone Wars and thus brutalizing them would not cause much opposition. Ryloth is a different case, though.

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16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The curious thing about Ryloth there is that we don't even know why the Imperials feel the need to mess with the Syndullas. Is something illicit/evil going on at that refinery? If so, they should have shown that. It would have been more interesting if, for the time being, Cham and his wife would have supported the Empire. After all, the Outer Rim suffered mostly during the Clone Wars, so the Republic worlds there should be more anti-Separatist than anti-Empire at that point.

By the way - is Taa dead now, or is he still alive as Rampart claimed?

Gobi and other of Cham's loyal fighters were actively involved in smuggling weapons. Add to that Cham's status as the hero of Ryloth, the Empire was going to keep a close eye on them and pounce as soon as they had an excuse.

I'm not certain about Taa. Apparently he appears in a canon novel that takes place later, but we've seen that Filoni and the story group are not above doing retcons of the books when it suits them. But Taa is a rather unique Twi'lek, he may be capable of surviving a shot to the temple.

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15 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Since they have Tarkin, Vader should show up at one point, too.

Yes, that could have been an interesting idea.

If they had given us a reason why they acted like the evil Empire it may have made more sense.

Going back to Raxus was a great idea - having the Empire terrorize former CIS worlds would make sense. They were the enemy during the Clone Wars and thus brutalizing them would not cause much opposition. Ryloth is a different case, though.

So the main motivation of the empire at this point is explained in the Krennic, Tarkin, and Thrawn novels.  Its basically the military industrial complex leaders competing with each other to get favor and influence from the Emperor.  Krennic wants more minerals for the Death Star, so he's instigating trouble on worlds with key materials so he can then have his friends in the military crack down and nationalize the resources.  Then they strip mine it out.  Meanwhile other leaders within the Empire are trying to sabotage him or syphon resources for their own pet projects.  It's all just corruption and self interest all the way down.  The Emperor is implied to enjoy all the chaos and backstabbing.

Rampart probably saw an opportunity to increase resource extraction and eliminate any environmental requirements, and Taa wanted to sabotage a competitor for his leadership role.  But in the end it all just comes down to a bunch of self absorbed jerks on Coruscant wanting to impress the Emperor. 

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It's not really appropriate to this thread, so I'm not going to post it, but the unaltered extended clip is on youtube. It's shit.

Apparently it has quite a few fans, and that's cool. What I've seen; It looks bloody awful. 

 

Getting back to the Bad Batch:

I liked a few episodes, but overall the first season was a disappointment. And out of everything that was announced on Investors Day, this was the one I was looking forward to the most. Maybe I'm just not in the target demographic, I don't know.

I still say The Clone Wars series was the best thing Star Wars has ever done. The final 4 episode story arc gave me chills.

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57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I still say The Clone Wars series was the best thing Star Wars has ever done. The final 4 episode story arc gave me chills.

When it's good, it's super, super good.

But keep in mind that prior to those 4 last episodes we had that shitty arc with Ahsoka and those two random thieves, and that was complete trash. I think that Filoni does a really good job leaning on existing canon but often misses the mark when he's not doing that, and leaning on Order 66 and Darth Maul is a good example. 

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3 hours ago, Kaligator said:

When it's good, it's super, super good.

But keep in mind that prior to those 4 last episodes we had that shitty arc with Ahsoka and those two random thieves, and that was complete trash. I think that Filoni does a really good job leaning on existing canon but often misses the mark when he's not doing that, and leaning on Order 66 and Darth Maul is a good example. 

I wouldn't call it that. I liked the idea of exploring the impact of the war on the lives of average citizens and their attitudes toward the Jedi.  

But yeah, it was a bit clunky at times. Count on seeing more of those two. 

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4 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I liked a few episodes, but overall the first season was a disappointment.

There are still four episodes left.

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