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Heresy 230 and die Herren von Winterfell

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16 hours ago, alienarea said:

That answer doesn't make much sense to me. 

Plus, they exclude Melisandre as an option. 
 

And the possibility that the letter wasn't send from Winterfell but created at Castle Black.

 

If you watched both videos, I'm confused to why you think they eliminated the possibility of the Pink Letter originating at Castle Black?

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:04 AM, Black Crow said:

Aux Contraire. Very topical and see how many extol his priesience

I suppose.  He should be off the hook for public events at any rate.

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2 hours ago, QhorinQuarterhand said:

If you watched both videos, I'm confused to why you think they eliminated the possibility of the Pink Letter originating at Castle Black?

I understood their theory as Roose send a letter and Bowen tempered with it.

To be precise, I think a raven would not have been involved at all. There is some pink wax left from Ramsay's first letter to Jon.

I don't see Bowen knowing or caring about Mance, and I don't see Roose writing about Mance either.

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Posted (edited)

I disagree that Bowen Marsh had anything to do with the Pink Letter. He never hid his disapproval of LC Jon Snow's actions, so I think a man that never hid his feelings would never be part of a hidden conspiracy. I think ultimately he was a man that would follow orders. Yes he was part of Jon's stabbing, but that was because he thought Jon was abandoning his post for a personal vendetta. In Bowen's eyes, he's not a mutineer. He's defending the Watch. Melisandre told Jon that he had many enemies, but that his true enemies smiled to his face and sharpened their knives behind their backs. Bowen never smiled to Jon's face, so I don't think he was a true enemy. I think the wildlings are only pretending to be Jon's friend. They are the ones Jon needs to watch out for. Actually, it's too late. They are already through the Wall and spread along the base of the Wall in the castles. I am expecting to read about white walkers south of the Wall near the beginning of Winds.

Edited to add: Bowen Marsh doesn’t know who Reek is nor have any way to know who he is.

Edited by Melifeather

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On 3/26/2020 at 10:14 PM, Melifeather said:

I disagree that Bowen Marsh had anything to do with the Pink Letter. He never hid his disapproval of LC Jon Snow's actions, so I think a man that never hid his feelings would never be part of a hidden conspiracy. I think ultimately he was a man that would follow orders. Yes he was part of Jon's stabbing, but that was because he thought Jon was abandoning his post for a personal vendetta. In Bowen's eyes, he's not a mutineer. He's defending the Watch. Melisandre told Jon that he had many enemies, but that his true enemies smiled to his face and sharpened their knives behind their backs. Bowen never smiled to Jon's face, so I don't think he was a true enemy. I think the wildlings are only pretending to be Jon's friend. They are the ones Jon needs to watch out for. Actually, it's too late. They are already through the Wall and spread along the base of the Wall in the castles. I am expecting to read about white walkers south of the Wall near the beginning of Winds.

Edited to add: Bowen Marsh doesn’t know who Reek is nor have any way to know who he is.

No one at Castle Black knows about Reek. Who in Winterfell could send a raven to the wall?

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On 3/28/2020 at 7:22 PM, alienarea said:

No one at Castle Black knows about Reek. Who in Winterfell could send a raven to the wall?

I think Mance could have sent the raven that carried the Pink Letter. While the books don't mention it, it seems only logical that ravens would be identified by bands indicating which castle they're from. I posit that ravens that fly to the Wall would wear black bands around their legs.

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On 3/30/2020 at 4:11 PM, Melifeather said:

I think Mance could have sent the raven that carried the Pink Letter. While the books don't mention it, it seems only logical that ravens would be identified by bands indicating which castle they're from. I posit that ravens that fly to the Wall would wear black bands around their legs.

I was quite active in the Pink Letter threads years ago, but don't remember my last argument without going back there.

I recall arguing for Mance as the author because he always called Jon a bastard and would know about Reek.

Another option is Melisandre, she could have all the information if she gets her visions straight.

But we all know how GRRM likes to play with us and subvert tropes: maybe the letter has been written by Ramsay, after he killed Roose and tortured some information from Mance and/or the spearwives?

My today's reasoning for this: if Mance had send the letter, he would have risked someone at Castle Black reading it before Jon, revealing himself to be alive and putting Jon at risk. Does that make sense? Not unless he wants / risks Jon to get killed and the watch eliminated. Which again points at Melisandre and her one chapter and the word Jon and Mance heard different (IIRC).

 

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Posted (edited)

So yeah. You'd think since we're all home sitting out the virus that we'd have more time for discussion. Is everyone staying healthy? Anyone having symptoms?

Edited by Melifeather

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Melifeather said:

So yeah. You'd think since we're all home sitting out the virus that we'd have more time for discussion. Is everyone staying healthy? Anyone having symptoms?

My eyes have turned a bright blue color - does that count ?  :devil:

Edited by Black Crow

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14 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

My eyes have turned a bright blue color - does that count ?  :devil:

Sporting contacts? :P

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5 hours ago, Melifeather said:

So yeah. You'd think since we're all home sitting out the virus that we'd have more time for discussion. Is everyone staying healthy? Anyone having symptoms?

I'm healthy I guess. Since I'm allergic to birch trees I usually avoid going outside before May any year and I might be sneezing because of the allergy, too.

Basically, if I were to catch it and it were a soft case I wouldn't notice, and if it were a bad case ...

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Melifeather said:

So yeah. You'd think since we're all home sitting out the virus that we'd have more time for discussion. Is everyone staying healthy? Anyone having symptoms?

I'm ok so far.  I only go out for groceries.  There are no reports in my town for the virus.  My family is all clear at the moment.

Reading The Grass Crown by Colleen McCullough. 

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/colleen-mccullough/the-grass-crown/

I believe you can read all of this series (First Man in Rome) free online.  

Edited by LynnS

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10 hours ago, Melifeather said:

So yeah. You'd think since we're all home sitting out the virus that we'd have more time for discussion. Is everyone staying healthy? Anyone having symptoms?

Thanks for asking and am glad to hear everyone's current status.  I report from Missouri (a.k.a. The Riverlands, where the two great North America rivers confluence - Mississippi and Missouri) all is well.  We are following social distancing, wearing gloves when we go to the supermarket to buy food and seem to run out of our 30 day supply of alcohol each week.  We can't find toilet paper and I'm stuck at home with my wife and two daughters who are now, as I write, in the bathroom putting on masks....and god only knows, what else.

My offering for those interested in historical fiction....try Bernard Cornwell's Arthurian Trilogy "A Novel of Arthur".

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11 hours ago, Mace Cooterian said:

Thanks for asking and am glad to hear everyone's current status.  I report from Missouri (a.k.a. The Riverlands, where the two great North America rivers confluence - Mississippi and Missouri) all is well.  We are following social distancing, wearing gloves when we go to the supermarket to buy food and seem to run out of our 30 day supply of alcohol each week.  We can't find toilet paper and I'm stuck at home with my wife and two daughters who are now, as I write, in the bathroom putting on masks....and god only knows, what else.

My offering for those interested in historical fiction....try Bernard Cornwell's Arthurian Trilogy "A Novel of Arthur".

My son-in-law installed this at home: https://hellotushy.com/products/classic-affordable-bidet?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiZCF9abM6AIV3__jBx3JGgC2EAAYASAAEgK0QPD_BwE

Might be the answer to your TP shortage. Spend the extra and get the warm water adapter!

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Maybe we can kill some time and write down how we would like things to play out in TWoW? Not creating fan fiction, just throwing out some ideas.

As I am not a fan of resurrections, Jon stays dead and gone. The wildlings attack the watch over this, with the knights of Stannis supporting the watch. The wildlings suffer heavy casualties, but finally kill all of the watch and Stannis' knights. Melisandre is captured. Thormund wants to burn Jon's body in the same spot as Ygritte, but Melisandre asks him to do it in his place, as the army of the dead is close. She orders Thormund to seal the gate behind her. Thormund watches from the wall as Melisandre puts Jon's body on fire, while the wildlings seal the gate. As the funeral pyre burns down, the army of the dead appears. Melisandre junps into the fire, and then there is a white flame and she's gone. Jon is gone completely, too. Ghost howls. The army of the dead retreat from the wall.

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I'm not a fan of resurrections either, but I think that GRRM has teased too much to see him dead and gone. On the other hand, while I see him "coming back" it aint going to be the guilt-free trip offered by the mummers and promoted by the R+L=J lot anxious to see him on the Iron Throne. He's going to come back wrong and while he's most likely to have cold hands, I really wouldn't rule out starry blue eyes.

As to what happens ? Well there's still another book to go [even if he's secretly written most of it] so we're not going to see a resolution in Winds. Lots of death and a cliff-hanger ending before the Wall gets destroyed in the next one in order to realise a dream of spring

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You do realise of course that the acronym for A Dream of Spring will not be ADOS but DOS  :commie:

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