DanteGabriel Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, DMC said: I know there are a handful of Niners fans around these parts. Wondering what y'all think of this?: Steve Young Was The Better QB. We Apologize, Joe Montana. Without reading the article yet, I acknowledge there is probably evidence that this is true, but you're grinding on the third rail of my childhood, motherfucker. Montana's mystique comes from the theoretical existence of "clutch" and I tend to believe in it (comes of also being a fan of David Ortiz), and Young's failures against the Cowboys in the early 90s rang louder than Montana getting crushed in the playoffs when I was a wee'un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Yeah, which doesn't change what I said above. Brees actively disparaged non-violent protest methodologies because he had a grandpa or some shit. Just because he's a great player doesn't mean he gets a back pat for lip service. Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time. He's also a jackass who empowered Donald J. Trump. Both things can be true. You're missing the point. We all have blind spots. You asked me to explain one to you. Brees gave a generic response and then realized he said something really dumb. He apologized. It's okay to keep things moving, and don't lose sight of the real monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: Without reading the article yet, I acknowledge there is probably evidence that this is true, but you're grinding on the third rail of my childhood, motherfucker. Thought it was provocative and would generate discussion! Certainly don't agree....necessarily. I grew up with Young, but Montana will always be the legend. And yeah, I think "clutch" matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Yeah, when I had a blind spot I reached out to someone who could uncover it. Brees made the same comments 4 years ago. The reason he retracted them now is because he faced backlash, not because of personal growth. I am not saying he needs run out of the league or really any kind of punishment for having a stupid fucking thought. I'm saying he shouldn't be applauded for paying someone to pretend he had a moment of revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 The article admist that we cannot do a modern comparison of the two because there isn't that kind of data tracking available of games played in the 1980s. But with the picture that we have available, Montana's teams (particularly the Ronnie Lott defenses) were better than Young's teams. In addition, the Cowboys and Packers teams that Young lost to were better than the teams Montana had to beat (and of course we should remember that while Montana has the unblemished 4-0 SB record, his NFC record is not nearly so flawless). As someone who was generally positive towards the Niners, I have no problem accepting the idea that Young could be better than Montana. But Niners fans will never accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Yeah, when I had a blind spot I reached out to someone who could uncover it. Brees made the same comments 4 years ago. The reason he retracted them now is because he faced backlash, not because of personal growth. I am not saying he needs run out of the league or really any kind of punishment for having a stupid fucking thought. I'm saying he shouldn't be applauded for paying someone to pretend he had a moment of revelation. Many people would have, and they'd be celebrated for it. The apology seemed sincere. I'm inclined to let it slide, even it was fucking dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Brees should be paying Jake Fromm's salary for the next few years. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 The Niners in the 80s/early 90s had an incredible run before the salary cap, with two HoF QBs and two HoF coaches. The longevity of the Niners' competitive run, and the ability to cross over from one spectacular coach/QB to a second one, seems unprecedented to me. The Packers didn't do that, the Steelers didn't do that, but the Niners did. The 538 article rings true to my memories of that era, in that I feel like Steve Young sometimes dragged his teams to victory, while Joe Montana played within himself and within the system to win. I am not downplaying "The Catch" or any of the other Joe Cool moments - Montana was second only to Marino in the 1980s in terms of great QBs for me, and he was very clutch. But Young seemed to have to work harder or depend upon his amazing athleticism to escape to victories on more occasions, and his SF teams seemed to be less complete or less dominant that Montana's Niner squads. And I agree with Tywin et al - Young playing in the NFL of today would have been a monster, much like Randall Cunningham or Warren Moon. I think that they would perform similarly to Deshawn Watson, Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I have a Steve Young picture in my basement, but no pictures of Montana. I loved watching him play and do believe he was better than Joe all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: In fairness to him, he does represent more than most athletes. He said something really dumb, heard his teammates and city criticize him, and did some work to correct what he said. He spoke from a place of ignorance, not malice, and apologized. I'd say that's fine, past is the past, and keep things moving. I'm sure we'll see a story soon were he donates a lot to charity. You guys are probably tired of my Kaepernick support, but even I will say that Brees here was just following the line previously laid down by the NFL and supported by a pretty overwhelming % of owners, GMs, coaches and arguably fans. Yes, the clock had changed and he’d missed it, but to be fair that’s a pretty big audible to call on your own recog. edit: morally and so forth it’s not one iota worse now then when Kaepernick was blackballled. Nothing about what is happening, should be happening etc. has changed one jot. Brees statement was just as wrong when tons of people were making it...all that’s changed are the optics have flipped. But the bodies now are no more dead than the bodies 4-5 years ago, the cops are no more guilty, the people trying to argue kneeling is an attack on the troops are no more full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 @James Arryn, I'm always here for Kaep talk. What happened to him was a disgrace. I think Brees is just a dude who was giving the company line without realizing that yo, that company line doesn't fly again. I don't think he's a bad guy, and even if it's 100% public relations, he did say the right things when apologizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Kalbear said: Brees should be paying Jake Fromm's salary for the next few years. Wow. I didn't know what this was about, but yeah. Wow. Fuck this kid. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/05/sport/buffalo-bills-jake-fromm-elite-white-people-spt-trnd/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: I didn't know what this was about, but yeah. Wow. Fuck this kid. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/05/sport/buffalo-bills-jake-fromm-elite-white-people-spt-trnd/index.html Fromm is on the Bills? And went in the fifth? Damn that dude has not had a good few years. Also, fuck him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said: I didn't know what this was about, but yeah. Wow. Fuck this kid. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/05/sport/buffalo-bills-jake-fromm-elite-white-people-spt-trnd/index.html So that's two racist quarterbacks in a row drafted by Buffalo. Clearly a model franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, briantw said: So that's two racist quarterbacks in a row drafted by Buffalo. Clearly a model franchise. I'm starting to get the idea that it's not such a statistically unlikely achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said: I'm starting to get the idea that it's not such a statistically unlikely achievement. That coach of theirs has always given me bad vibes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said: That coach of theirs has always given me bad vibes. The Bills coach? McDermott? Or whoever his college coach was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: The Bills coach? McDermott? Or whoever his college coach was? McDermott I have this enduring image of him wearing a camo NFL hat and I hate him intensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Fromm had a private conversation with someone he presumably thought was a friend posted publicly. It was something wrong to say, but can I say that I don't have inappropriate comments among my friends that are part of the banter between us that would look horrible out of context? No. Its a hard life lesson to learn when you realize you can't trust your friends to keep personal conversations private. I won't excuse him for the comment, but on the level of having private conversations shared; I can sympathize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: McDermott I have this enduring image of him wearing a camo NFL hat and I hate him intensely. I don't know much about McDermott, but I'd guess 90% of white Head Footbaw Coaches (and a non-trivial number of black ones) are enthusiastic Trumpkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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