Watch, Watched, Watching: Strange Times

[DMC]

16 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Full Metal Jacket.

Yeah FMJ is one I meant to mention earlier.  Definitely up there.

[RumHam]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

When discussing movies about wars leads to an actual one. 

Pistols at dawn. I demand satisfaction! 

Do people really like that movie? I know it's Scorsese and Daniel Day Lewis is always amazing, but I thought it was a mess. I remember reading that weinstein interfered and clashed with Scorsese a lot over the final cut. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Do people really like that movie? I know it's Scorsese and Daniel Day Lewis is always amazing, but I thought it was a mess. I remember reading that weinstein interfered and clashed with Scorsese a lot over the final cut. 

I think it's fairly popular, but yeah it can also be a mess in a lot of places, and some of the acting was dragged up by DDL putting on a master class. The technical aspects of film making also seemed to be well done. It's just not for everyone though.

[RumHam]

19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think it's fairly popular, but yeah it can also be a mess in a lot of places, and some of the acting was dragged up by DDL putting on a master class. The technical aspects of film making also seemed to be well done. It's just not for everyone though.

I looked on wikipedia:

Weinstein kept demanding cuts to the film's length, and some of those cuts were eventually made. In December 2001, Jeffrey Wells[who?] reviewed a purported workprint of the film as it existed in the fall of 2001. Wells reported the work print lacked narration, was about 20 minutes longer, and although it was "different than the [theatrical] version ... scene after scene after scene play exactly the same in both." Despite the similarities, Wells found the work print to be richer and more satisfying than the theatrical version. While Scorsese has stated the theatrical version is his final cut, he reportedly "passed along [the] three-hour-plus [work print] version of Gangs on tape [to friends] and confided, 'Putting aside my contractual obligation to deliver a shorter, two-hour-and-forty-minute version to Miramax, this is the version I'm happiest with,' or words to that effect."[10]

In an interview with Roger Ebert, Scorsese clarified the real issues in the cutting of the film. Ebert notes,

His discussions with Weinstein, he said, were always about finding the length where the picture worked. When that got to the press, it was translated into fights. The movie is currently 168 minutes long, he said, and that is the right length, and that's why there won't be any director's cut — because this is the director's cut.[13]

I'd love to see that other version. 

Edit2: even without the formatting from wikipedia it's still doing it... 

[Nictarion]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Do people really like that movie? I know it's Scorsese and Daniel Day Lewis is always amazing, but I thought it was a mess. I remember reading that weinstein interfered and clashed with Scorsese a lot over the final cut. 

I like it. It’s too long, and Cameron Diaz does bring it down a bit, but the rest of the cast is great (DDL, Leo, Brendan Gleeson, Liam Neeson). Not top tier Scorsese, but Bill the Butcher is a pretty memorable character, and I will watch it every once in awhile if it’s on. 

[RumHam]

It's probably an issue of expectations. I only first saw it five or so years ago and as said it looks so good on paper but I was really disappointed.  As I said in that botched post above I'd really be curious to check out that workprint version. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Do people really like that movie?

I absolutely love Gangs of New York.  Of Scorsese movies, I would put it above everything but Taxi Driver.  And it has the rare quality of getting better and better each of the dozens times I've watched.  In fact I really wish Scorsese would release a directors cut like Coppola and Apocalypse Now as I know the studio made him truncate the ending (granted that might not be possible as I'm not sure he filmed everything he planned on doing).  Wouldn't call it a war movie though.

[RumHam]

Wow alright you know what I'm gonna give Gangs of New York another watch. Not tonight but soon. Will update. 

[RumHam]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

 Wouldn't call it a war movie though.

Also yeah if it's a war movie so are the Avengers movies.

[Prince of the North]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

A lot of people disagree. Idk why, but they do.

Is Die Hard a Christmas movie or is it an action movie that happens to be set at Christmas time?  And, in the end, does it matter?  I don't have strong feelings either way.  Just a question that came mind while reading this.

Another question popped into my head: is The Outlaw Josey Wales a "war movie"?  Again, I don't have strong feelings either way but it does start at the end of the Civil War and grudges originating in the war follow the Wales character all the way to the end.  The war seems to hold a somewhat prominent place throughout the background of the movie

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

48 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Also yeah if it's a war movie so are the Avengers movies.

Well like I said, what is a war movie is a bit open to interpretation. Could the right person logically argue that The Matrix is actually a war movie?

It does meet the basic definition, after all.

4 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Is Die Hard a Christmas movie or is it an action movie that happens to be set at Christmas time?  And, in the end, does it matter?  I don't have strong feelings either way.  Just a question that came mind while reading this.

Congrats, you're just the (smashes 9 key) 85964168548 person to suggest that.

(okay I didn't smash it like I would have in the past, but I did slap it)

[Prince of the North]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Congrats, you're just the (smashes 9 key) 85964168548 person to suggest that.

(okay I didn't smash it like I would have in the past, but I did slap it)

Well, I guess I need to get out more because I'm not familiar with the great " Is Die Hard a Christmas Movie?" debate.  Here I thought I was displaying the height of cleverness

Any opinion of Josey Wales being a war movie?  Maybe just more of a western?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Well, I guess I need to get out more because I'm not familiar with the great " Is Die Hard a Christmas Movie?" debate.  Here I thought I was displaying the height of cleverness

Some people don't think Christmas Vacation is a Christmas movie.

[RumHam]

I used to have a playlist of Christmas movies that I'd run through when it twas the season. It was The Ice Harvest, Die Hard, Gremlins, every shane black movie, and Black Christmas.

[Nictarion]

34 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Any opinion of Josey Wales being a war movie?  Maybe just more of a western?

Definitely should be primarily categorized as a western, imo. I wouldn’t consider The Good, the Bad and the Ugly a war movie either. Despite the civil war playing a part in that movie as well. 

Here’s a tougher one...Last of the Mohicans? The French-Indian war is central to the story, but again I probably wouldn’t consider it an actual “war movie.”

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

33 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Gremlins

Another Christmas movie some like to deny. 

Jackasses. 

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Well, I guess I need to get out more because I'm not familiar with the great " Is Die Hard a Christmas Movie?" debate.  Here I thought I was displaying the height of cleverness

Any opinion of Josey Wales being a war movie?  Maybe just more of a western?

Definitely in a Western in the sub genre of 'post Civil War dudes at loose ends and militias'.

[Prince of the North]

35 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Definitely should be primarily categorized as a western, imo. I wouldn’t consider The Good, the Bad and the Ugly a war movie either. Despite the civil war playing a part in that movie as well. 

Here’s a tougher one...Last of the Mohicans? The French-Indian war is central to the story, but again I probably wouldn’t consider it an actual “war movie.”

Yeah, like I said, I don't have much of an opinion either way.  In the end, it's pretty subjective.  But, for both films, I would say the wars are maybe more of a backdrop/setting than more central to the story, if that makes sense?

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Definitely in a Western in the sub genre of 'post Civil War dudes at loose ends and militias'.

Hmm...yes, I can see that now.

[RumHam]

41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Another Christmas movie some like to deny. 

Jackasses. 

Yeah. They're almost as bad as the "Predator isn't a christmas movie" people.

It's set in the southern hemisphere, assholes. 

[Veltigar]

The definition of war movie is quit arbitrary. To me, pretty much every film set before WWI, even if it takes place during a war would be categorized as a historical film first and foremost. From WOI onwards I'd count them as war movies first. It's a bit weird.

As to movies taking place in that time, which are not primarily focused on combat or uniformed soldiers (like Dr. Strangelove), these also don't count as war films for me. Same with Inglorious Bastards. It's mostly spy stuff and it isn't real, so doesn't count for me.

11 hours ago, dbunting said:

For me it's the best war movie I have seen since Platoon and Glory. This was the only movie where I actually cried in a theater, hell maybe only time I cried that entire year. That damn scene where he is old in the cemetery  and is crying on his knees asking his wife if he has been a good man...gets me every damn time.

Ugh, that's just the classic Schmaltz Spielberg brings to everything. Don't like that part at all. Saving Private Ryan is a good film mainly due to its technical accomplishments. The way it depicts the D-Day landings is just stunning. Storywise it's middle of the road, but it really picks up a lot of points due to its style.

11 hours ago, DMC said:

Oh, sorry for the double post, but this reminded of something.  I always chuckle at thinking when Old James asks his wife if he's led a good life ("earned this") in Arlington his wife would respond:  "James, for the last time, you didn't even fight in World War II.  Your just confused sweetheart"  That'd be an awesome ending.

I'd like to see this cut of the movie XD

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Make sure to give Apocalypse Now its due.

It's overlong, overrated and brimming with self-importance. More importantly, a lot of stuff it gets credit for was done earlier and better by Werner Herzog in his Aguirre: The Wrath of Gods which is this wonderful bonkers film that everyone should see instead of AN.

10 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm not sure what my favorite war film is, in part because there can be some ambiguity as to what counts. And I still need to see so many older films that long predate AN.

Not only that, but you clearly need to see a lot of foreign language pictures as well. The Soviets in particular had some harrrowing outings. Some older war films I would definitely recommend are

Les Croix des bois
Paths of Glory (mentioned already and my favorite Kubrick by far)
Idi i Smotri

I'd have to look up others in my watchlists.

9 hours ago, RumHam said:

Full Metal Jacket and The Bridge On the River Kwai are good ones I haven't seen mentioned. I only watched the later to understand a recurring reference to it on The Wire, but it was really good. 

I love Bridge. William Holden really was a lucky guy between his part in that film and The Wild Bunch. When it comes to FMJ I subscribe to the common opinion that the first half is a classic and the second one a bit of a letdown.

rd

7 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I like it. It’s too long, and Cameron Diaz does bring it down a bit, but the rest of the cast is great (DDL, Leo, Brendan Gleeson, Liam Neeson). Not top tier Scorsese, but Bill the Butcher is a pretty memorable character, and I will watch it every once in awhile if it’s on. 

I agree with Nictarion on Gangs. I really like the film and watch it occasionally. DDL gives an all-time great performance (if it wasn't for There Will Be Blood I would even say his best), but Cameron Diaz (both as an actress and just the character she plays) really brings that film down a lot. 

I have always wondered whether it wouldn't have been more interesting to see the film from Bill the Butcher's PoV. That would have made for less standard fair and would have given us even more wholesome DDL time.