Ser Brandor?

[Curled Finger]

Bran wanted to be a knight.  He proposed Hodor could carry him and he could make the moves himself.  Maester Luwen prudently suggests Bran might be a knight of the mind and become a maester.  In true GRRM fashion and a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, we see Bran actually control Hodor’s mind and actions.  I spend no small amount of time trying to figure out which hero will end up with which Valyrian Steel sword.  While I don’t think Bran could maneuver a sword, well maybe Widow’s Wail, but that’s another conversation…Hodor clearly can and does.  Hodor isn’t likely to become a tourney knight, but will he survive long enough to wield a sword during the next fight against the Others?   Will Bran be able to hone his own play sword skills to ensure Hodor can whip an Other’s ass?   Does he even have to?  

The text is there, but is it a red herring and neither Bran nor Hodor will take an active role in the next Battle for Dawn?  Bran’s already moved Hodor to defend his company and has proven to be an effective puppet master.  He’s become a knight of the mind Luwen couldn’t begin to imagine.  There are no less than 2 Valyrian Steel swords in Bran/Hodor’s vicinity, maybe even in the exact cave they are in.  The pieces are definitely there. 

Has the story led you to think this is a possibility or have other mediums ruined your hope?  Many of our ideas were brought to fruition in other mediums, but we can’t take it as truth until we read it.  I think all the signs are there in the text.  Will Ser Brandor be a player in the fight against the Others?   
 

[Daeron the Daring]

13 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Bran wanted to be a knight.  He proposed Hodor could carry him and he could make the moves himself.  Maester Luwen prudently suggests Bran might be a knight of the mind and become a maester.  In true GRRM fashion and a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, we see Bran actually control Hodor’s mind and actions.  I spend no small amount of time trying to figure out which hero will end up with which Valyrian Steel sword.  While I don’t think Bran could maneuver a sword, well maybe Widow’s Wail, but that’s another conversation…Hodor clearly can and does.  Hodor isn’t likely to become a tourney knight, but will he survive long enough to wield a sword during the next fight against the Others?   Will Bran be able to hone his own play sword skills to ensure Hodor can whip an Other’s ass?   Does he even have to?  

The text is there, but is it a red herring and neither Bran nor Hodor will take an active role in the next Battle for Dawn?  Bran’s already moved Hodor to defend his company and has proven to be an effective puppet master.  He’s become a knight of the mind Luwen couldn’t begin to imagine.  There are no less than 2 Valyrian Steel swords in Bran/Hodor’s vicinity, maybe even in the exact cave they are in.  The pieces are definitely there. 

Has the story led you to think this is a possibility or have other mediums ruined your hope?  Many of our ideas were brought to fruition in other mediums, but we can’t take it as truth until we read it.  I think all the signs are there in the text.  Will Ser Brandor be a player in the fight against the Others?   
 

If Hodor lives long enough, then maybe.

Maybe not if Bran realizes what a shameful thing is to control other people's mind (according to Varamyr), even if he's dumb as hell.

Which is the second VS sword you are talking about being in the cave? I am lost this time.

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, HerblYY said:

If Hodor lives long enough, then maybe.

Maybe not if Bran realizes what a shameful thing is to control other people's mind (according to Varamyr), even if he's dumb as hell.

Which is the second VS sword you are talking about being in the cave? I am lost this time.

Nono, not in the cave, at the Wall--Longclaw.  That's a big sword more suitable to a man of Hodor's size anyway.  Bran doesn't seem to understand what a bad thing he does with Hodor despite knowing how it makes Hodor feel.  On the other hand, Bran's seizures of Hodor's body have come in very handy when the chips are down and the company needs a real protector.   That defense is purely Bran's work.  

[Legitimate_Bastard]

Anything is possible.

[zandru]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The text is there, but is it a red herring and neither Bran nor Hodor will take an active role in the next Battle for Dawn?

I don't see how Bran will end up as a sword-slinging foot soldier. Not with the training he's getting from the 3eyed Crow. Bran's capabilities and developing powers will be used in more powerful and subtle ways, such as gathering intelligence from the present and past, influencing birds and animals, and as we've seen with Theon, communicating with key people at pivotal moments.

Putting Bran into the fray, even as Hodor, would foolishly risk Hodor's life while wasting Bran's potential. Also, willfully preempting Hodor's autonomy and identity is a great wrong. Sadly, Bran is doing it more and more, in spite of knowing how much it terrifies and hurts Hodor.

But Bran's "active role" won't be as a sword waving grunt. Bloodraven won't be teaching him advanced swordsmanship; like I said, he's got a different curriculum.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Anything is possible.

There you have it!

14 minutes ago, zandru said:

I don't see how Bran will end up as a sword-slinging foot soldier. Not with the training he's getting from the 3eyed Crow. Bran's capabilities and developing powers will be used in more powerful and subtle ways, such as gathering intelligence from the present and past, influencing birds and animals, and as we've seen with Theon, communicating with key people at pivotal moments.

Putting Bran into the fray, even as Hodor, would foolishly risk Hodor's life while wasting Bran's potential. Also, willfully preempting Hodor's autonomy and identity is a great wrong. Sadly, Bran is doing it more and more, in spite of knowing how much it terrifies and hurts Hodor.

But Bran's "active role" won't be as a sword waving grunt. Bloodraven won't be teaching him advanced swordsmanship; like I said, he's got a different curriculum.

I am not so sure, but I get where you're coming from and the importance of any non violent activities Bran might take part in.  The magic swords work of their own accord per Brienne and Jon, so swordsmanship wasn't on the table.  Now that you have me thinking about Bloodraven, isn't it interesting he will likely leave a valuable sword behind?  I don't think Bran will color within the lines Bloodraven puts forth, mostly because I think Bran's power is greater where Bloodraven has better practical use knowledge.  It does make more sense now for Bran to be more physically passive, but it's so clear to me how this character mashup might have transpired, particularly in AGOT and ACOK.  Perhaps it is a red herring or dropped idea.   Either way, thanks for weighing in.  

[broken one]

I do not think GRRM made Bran control Hodor just for the one moment at the cave's entrance (important as it was). Bran is still doing it and I believe he will possess Hodor in coming books again. It does not have to be a waste of Bran's potential, it depends on purpose. Sort of training anyway. And it does not have to have anything to do with swords. But why not? Circumstances may force Bran to physically reach outside the cave.

[Seams]

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Bran’s already moved Hodor to defend his company and has proven to be an effective puppet master.  He’s become a knight of the mind Luwen couldn’t begin to imagine.  ...  I think all the signs are there in the text.  Will Ser Brandor be a player in the fight against the Others?   

Even if some plot elements play out as they did in the other medium (and I didn't watch after season 5 so I don't know the details) GRRM has made it clear that death in ASOIAF is a stage of transformation that leads to rebirth. So the question may not be whether Hodor will survive long enough to act as a knight, but how he will be reborn and use the things he learned in his previous life to fulfill his destiny in his next life.

I suspect one of the hints GRRM has given us for the Bran / Hodor partnership is embodied by the Maelys the Monstrous character, supposedly the last of the male line of the Blackfyres. He was slain by Barristan Selmy at the Stepstones.

Another hint may come from Gregor Clegane, who is a puppet knight operated by (I believe) Tywin Lannister. BUT he was knighted by Rhaegar Targaryen. We don't know the identity of the old man who made the marionette toy that Sandor Clegane tried to play with. In keeping with the rebirth pattern, readers have been led to believe that Ser Gregor died and was beheaded but that his headless body continues to function as a member of the King's Guard.

I know you are looking for signs of a literal last hero, a dozen companions and a sword fight or physical combat that will lead to dawn. My reading tends toward the notion that these elements will be indirect, not literal.

[rotting sea cow]

17 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Bran wanted to be a knight.  He proposed Hodor could carry him and he could make the moves himself.  Maester Luwen prudently suggests Bran might be a knight of the mind and become a maester.  In true GRRM fashion and a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, we see Bran actually control Hodor’s mind and actions.  I spend no small amount of time trying to figure out which hero will end up with which Valyrian Steel sword.  While I don’t think Bran could maneuver a sword, well maybe Widow’s Wail, but that’s another conversation…Hodor clearly can and does.  Hodor isn’t likely to become a tourney knight, but will he survive long enough to wield a sword during the next fight against the Others?   Will Bran be able to hone his own play sword skills to ensure Hodor can whip an Other’s ass?   Does he even have to?  

The text is there, but is it a red herring and neither Bran nor Hodor will take an active role in the next Battle for Dawn?  Bran’s already moved Hodor to defend his company and has proven to be an effective puppet master.  He’s become a knight of the mind Luwen couldn’t begin to imagine.  There are no less than 2 Valyrian Steel swords in Bran/Hodor’s vicinity, maybe even in the exact cave they are in.  The pieces are definitely there. 

Has the story led you to think this is a possibility or have other mediums ruined your hope?  Many of our ideas were brought to fruition in other mediums, but we can’t take it as truth until we read it.  I think all the signs are there in the text.  Will Ser Brandor be a player in the fight against the Others?   
 

There is likely a valyrian steel sword at the cave: Dark Sister. Someone has to use it.

[CamiloRP]

I think once he strengthens his powers, bran will be able to do much more than controlling Hodor. He may be able to control multiple persons at once, maybe entire armies, maybe even take the other's army away from them. Though I doubt the series will end in a huge apocalyptic battle.

[Curled Finger]

14 hours ago, broken one said:

I do not think GRRM made Bran control Hodor just for the one moment at the cave's entrance (important as it was). Bran is still doing it and I believe he will possess Hodor in coming books again. It does not have to be a waste of Bran's potential, it depends on purpose. Sort of training anyway. And it does not have to have anything to do with swords. But why not? Circumstances may force Bran to physically reach outside the cave.

This is true.  I found that last bit in the last Bran chapter of ADWD sort of telling about his power getting away from him.   It's clear Bran doesn't have the control he needs, but the control he exercises in Hodor is pretty important to the company's survival and it is Bran's skill that moves Hodor in these instances.   As I say, I am unsure Brandor is a thing anymore and I think that has more to do with ideas I have read over the years than the text.  I bring up swords here because I am in eternal pursuit of the heroes who will wield the swords.  Thank you for your thoughts here.  

[Curled Finger]

13 hours ago, Seams said:

Even if some plot elements play out as they did in the other medium (and I didn't watch after season 5 so I don't know the details) GRRM has made it clear that death in ASOIAF is a stage of transformation that leads to rebirth. So the question may not be whether Hodor will survive long enough to act as a knight, but how he will be reborn and use the things he learned in his previous life to fulfill his destiny in his next life.

I suspect one of the hints GRRM has given us for the Bran / Hodor partnership is embodied by the Maelys the Monstrous character, supposedly the last of the male line of the Blackfyres. He was slain by Barristan Selmy at the Stepstones.

Another hint may come from Gregor Clegane, who is a puppet knight operated by (I believe) Tywin Lannister. BUT he was knighted by Rhaegar Targaryen. We don't know the identity of the old man who made the marionette toy that Sandor Clegane tried to play with. In keeping with the rebirth pattern, readers have been led to believe that Ser Gregor died and was beheaded but that his headless body continues to function as a member of the King's Guard.

I know you are looking for signs of a literal last hero, a dozen companions and a sword fight or physical combat that will lead to dawn. My reading tends toward the notion that these elements will be indirect, not literal.

Also fair enough.   I always enjoy what you bring to the conversations.   Really digging that Maelys comparison.  I have tried to interpret my swords bent in a less literal way, but you know I struggle with concepts I don't understand.   I would love it if you could once again, elaborate a little bit on this--maybe give me an example to play with?   Always always interesting @Seams.

[Curled Finger]

13 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

There is likely a valyrian steel sword at the cave: Dark Sister. Someone has to use it.

That's so true, but Arya is the odds on favorite for that one...then again, someone will have to get it to her, right?   Since I actually like the idea of Bran becoming a knight in Hodor I may have too much invested in their taking part in the final battle when it's clear they already have the connection to pull it off without participating in the Battle for Dawn.   Maybe that's all Martin intends for these characters?  

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I think once he strengthens his powers, bran will be able to do much more than controlling Hodor. He may be able to control multiple persons at once, maybe entire armies, maybe even take the other's army away from them. Though I doubt the series will end in a huge apocalyptic battle.

That took me so far out of my little space inside Hodor.  I think there will have to be a show down, but that also limits my ability to see giant big things as you propose.  Thanks for that, Man!  

[CamiloRP]

11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

That took me so far out of my little space inside Hodor.  I think there will have to be a show down, but that also limits my ability to see giant big things as you propose.  Thanks for that, Man!  

You're welcome. I think there would be a showdown. I just doubt that showdown would be a battle. Wouldn't you feel cheated if after all of this the thing that solves most problems and ends the series is just another battle?

[Seams]

12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

... Really digging that Maelys comparison.  ...   I would love it if you could once again, elaborate a little bit on this--maybe give me an example to play with?   Always always interesting @Seams.

The puppet knight.

First, I should provide the extensive Pinocchio portfolio created by @The Fattest Leech. (An earlier version from this forum is here.) Pinocchio is convenient but too narrow a word to describe the archetype that GRRM uses in his work: "dancing" is a metaphor for war in the analysis by TFL and "Wood Dancer" is the term GRRM has used to describe a category of warriors associated with trees. Bran is a wood dancer and (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying and missing important points) this is a step that helps him to become a green seer.

We still see Jaime pushing Bran out of the tower, but Bloodraven is both the puppetmaker / puppet operator / father figure, Gepetto.

(You asked for examples: If you scroll down to the "Cup of Fire" section of TFL's essay, she gives examples of Daenerys and Euron Greyjoy drinking from a cup of fire - this does not make them wood dancers but does help them to develop and open their third eyes. I suspect that they become puppeteers and that the puppet knights under their direction are Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan for Dany, and Victarion and possibly Aeron for Euron.)

One relevant key paragraph from TFL's blog predicting next moves for Bran:

Quote

Basically, Bran will become fearful of some impending force causing Bran to leave the tree and be the knight he always wanted to be. Maybe. The other few times in the A Song of Ice and Fire series we see or hear about someone being a puppet, it is always a fire-persona trying to burn down a tree-persona.

If TFL is correct that Bran will eventually be motivated to become a knight and make his way out of the cave network, it's a pretty safe bet at this point that Hodor will be an agent of physically moving Bran out the cavern of roots: your "Brandor" notion would make sense.

I'm not sure I have more to add to the Maelys he Monstrous parallel to the Bran / Hodor knight combination. The fact that Ser Barristan defeated the so-called last Blackfyre at the Stepstones apparently shows a door being slammed on that line of pretenders to the Iron Throne. (This may be Ser Barristan's major role in the series, in fact: defeating in tourneys and in battle the usurpers and pretenders who threaten the Targaryen line.) TFL quotes this Bran excerpt from AGoT:

Quote

As the First Men carved out holdfasts and farms, they cut down the faces and gave them to the fire. Horror-struck, the children went to war. The old songs say that the greenseers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm, but it was too late to close the door.

So the closing door metaphor may be closely associated with the puppet knight. In a Catelyn POV, we are told that there is a door between life and death and that the Crone can peer through it and ravens can fly back and forth through it. Maybe the death of Maelys ended that threat but maybe it just allowed Maelys to be reborn and become a new kind of threat to the Iron Throne.

The Gregor Clegane example is complex and probably deserves more thought than I can put into it today. The Mountain in command of a section of the Lannister forces at the Battle of the Green Fork, with Tyrion and his mountain clans taking orders to hold the river, may be an important scene. Like Maelys and his second head, the Mountain and Tyrion make an amazing yet monstrous team in defeating Robb Stark's army. They prevent the Stark forces from reaching the river, so they may have slammed the door on their opponent. (But Ser Gregor later becomes Ser Robert Strong. "Stark" is the German word for "strong," so we get this added layer of symbolism to puzzle out, with the Mountain becoming Rob "Stark".)

Another example of the puppet knight may come from my attempts to get at the underlying meaning of the Dunk & Egg stories. Dunk is the puppet knight. The theory is that Egg acts as a puppeteer, sitting on Dunk's shoulders (scroll down to the "Recall that Dunk has been made a puppet" section) at the Ashford Meadow tourney, but Dunk may be able to exert some control of Egg by pulling strings connected to the hands of the puppeteer.

I may have misunderstood your encouragement. I am providing examples of puppet knights and their fates, but you probably wanted more focus on Bran and Hodor. It's hard to speculate about a rebirth for Hodor as a knight, as the Ser Robert Strong example is our best instance so far of a puppet knight who was reborn. Brienne seems to have just died and been reborn but we haven't seen enough of her since her rebirth to know what kind of knight/monster she may have become. Ser Clarence Crabb is a big guy who has many spare heads who help him to gain power and influence. Small Paul might be another example - a big guy who was obsessed with getting the lord commander's raven - a second head? - to sit on his shoulder. He turns into a monster but is slain before he can do too much damage.

If any of these examples are relevant, I suspect the knight that results from the joining of Bran / Hodor will be a monster of some kind.

P.S. Maize / Maise / Maze wordplay may provide a path showing how Bran will escape from the "maze" of tunnels that make up Bloodraven's lair.

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

You're welcome. I think there would be a showdown. I just doubt that showdown would be a battle. Wouldn't you feel cheated if after all of this the thing that solves most problems and ends the series is just another battle?

I don't see the story ending with a battle with the Others, but I see Westeros and what characters remain having story beyond that.  Because of the wording of the story of the Long Night and the Last Hero, specifically that bit about the Others being driven back (not defeated) leads me to believe they have to be defeated if Westeros is to have any chance for normalcy.  We are not dealing with every fantasy here and our story teller is a master.  Case in point, your seeing Bran's power 100 times greater than I ever imagined.  Once you offered the possibility, it absolutely became one.   This bit with swords and heroes is the part that grabs me, I see possibilities in that some folks don't.  

[Nevets]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 7:23 PM, Curled Finger said:

There you have it!

I am not so sure, but I get where you're coming from and the importance of any non violent activities Bran might take part in.  The magic swords work of their own accord per Brienne and Jon, so swordsmanship wasn't on the table.  Now that you have me thinking about Bloodraven, isn't it interesting he will likely leave a valuable sword behind?  I don't think Bran will color within the lines Bloodraven puts forth, mostly because I think Bran's power is greater where Bloodraven has better practical use knowledge.  It does make more sense now for Bran to be more physically passive, but it's so clear to me how this character mashup might have transpired, particularly in AGOT and ACOK.  Perhaps it is a red herring or dropped idea.   Either way, thanks for weighing in.  

Bran's story is one of learning to use magic, probably to gather information, and possibly to pass it on.  I don't think fighting, especially with a sword, is on the curriculum. If Bran has to save the day with a sword, then the good guys are probably doomed.

Valyrian swords are not magic swords.  The make a swordsman better, probably because they are lighter, sharper ,and generally easier to use.  Jon and Brienne are both very good swordsmen, and the VS makes them even better.  But I don't think someone who is entirely untrained would get much benefit from one.

 

[Curled Finger]

10 hours ago, Seams said:

The puppet knight.

First, I should provide the extensive Pinocchio portfolio created by @The Fattest Leech. (An earlier version from this forum is here.) Pinocchio is convenient but too narrow a word to describe the archetype that GRRM uses in his work: "dancing" is a metaphor for war in the analysis by TFL and "Wood Dancer" is the term GRRM has used to describe a category of warriors associated with trees. Bran is a wood dancer and (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying and missing important points) this is a step that helps him to become a green seer.

We still see Jaime pushing Bran out of the tower, but Bloodraven is both the puppetmaker / puppet operator / father figure, Gepetto.

(You asked for examples: If you scroll down to the "Cup of Fire" section of TFL's essay, she gives examples of Daenerys and Euron Greyjoy drinking from a cup of fire - this does not make them wood dancers but does help them to develop and open their third eyes. I suspect that they become puppeteers and that the puppet knights under their direction are Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan for Dany, and Victarion and possibly Aeron for Euron.)

One relevant key paragraph from TFL's blog predicting next moves for Bran:

If TFL is correct that Bran will eventually be motivated to become a knight and make his way out of the cave network, it's a pretty safe bet at this point that Hodor will be an agent of physically moving Bran out the cavern of roots: your "Brandor" notion would make sense.

I'm not sure I have more to add to the Maelys he Monstrous parallel to the Bran / Hodor knight combination. The fact that Ser Barristan defeated the so-called last Blackfyre at the Stepstones apparently shows a door being slammed on that line of pretenders to the Iron Throne. (This may be Ser Barristan's major role in the series, in fact: defeating in tourneys and in battle the usurpers and pretenders who threaten the Targaryen line.) TFL quotes this Bran excerpt from AGoT:

So the closing door metaphor may be closely associated with the puppet knight. In a Catelyn POV, we are told that there is a door between life and death and that the Crone can peer through it and ravens can fly back and forth through it. Maybe the death of Maelys ended that threat but maybe it just allowed Maelys to be reborn and become a new kind of threat to the Iron Throne.

The Gregor Clegane example is complex and probably deserves more thought than I can put into it today. The Mountain in command of a section of the Lannister forces at the Battle of the Green Fork, with Tyrion and his mountain clans taking orders to hold the river, may be an important scene. Like Maelys and his second head, the Mountain and Tyrion make an amazing yet monstrous team in defeating Robb Stark's army. They prevent the Stark forces from reaching the river, so they may have slammed the door on their opponent. (But Ser Gregor later becomes Ser Robert Strong. "Stark" is the German word for "strong," so we get this added layer of symbolism to puzzle out, with the Mountain becoming Rob "Stark".)

Another example of the puppet knight may come from my attempts to get at the underlying meaning of the Dunk & Egg stories. Dunk is the puppet knight. The theory is that Egg acts as a puppeteer, sitting on Dunk's shoulders (scroll down to the "Recall that Dunk has been made a puppet" section) at the Ashford Meadow tourney, but Dunk may be able to exert some control of Egg by pulling strings connected to the hands of the puppeteer.

I may have misunderstood your encouragement. I am providing examples of puppet knights and their fates, but you probably wanted more focus on Bran and Hodor. It's hard to speculate about a rebirth for Hodor as a knight, as the Ser Robert Strong example is our best instance so far of a puppet knight who was reborn. Brienne seems to have just died and been reborn but we haven't seen enough of her since her rebirth to know what kind of knight/monster she may have become. Ser Clarence Crabb is a big guy who has many spare heads who help him to gain power and influence. Small Paul might be another example - a big guy who was obsessed with getting the lord commander's raven - a second head? - to sit on his shoulder. He turns into a monster but is slain before he can do too much damage.

If any of these examples are relevant, I suspect the knight that results from the joining of Bran / Hodor will be a monster of some kind.

P.S. Maize / Maise / Maze wordplay may provide a path showing how Bran will escape from the "maze" of tunnels that make up Bloodraven's lair.

I read Leech's excellent Pinnochio essay when she posted without it even crossing my mind here.   To be honest, I was sort of reveling in @Faera's awesome Bran/Hodor Conundrum essay in my little question here.    You are wonderful to provide yet another expanded explanation and I do understand better now.  It's funny that last line about the combining of Bran and Hodor becoming a monster of some sort--I thought they (well, Bran, really) was already a sort of monster for the trips he takes into Hodor without crisis.  It's interesting here that Bran goes on to speak of Symeon StarEyes and his poleaxe to Maester Luwen just after coming up with the idea of combining with Hodor to become a kinght.   Another sort of monster?   But he is just a little boy.  

[CamiloRP]

15 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't see the story ending with a battle with the Others, but I see Westeros and what characters remain having story beyond that.  Because of the wording of the story of the Long Night and the Last Hero, specifically that bit about the Others being driven back (not defeated) leads me to believe they have to be defeated if Westeros is to have any chance for normalcy.  We are not dealing with every fantasy here and our story teller is a master.  Case in point, your seeing Bran's power 100 times greater than I ever imagined.  Once you offered the possibility, it absolutely became one.   This bit with swords and heroes is the part that grabs me, I see possibilities in that some folks don't.  

It's just... I doubt GRRM would make a series in which the solution to the problem is war and genocide of an entire people, who are just plain evil.

Then again: the show. I might be completely wrong. 

But it makes me happy that my proposition turned to be a fun possibility you hadn't considered