Another Stark Hate Post

[CamiloRP]

I've seen of late many posts and comments about "Stark hatred". And dudes, just chill. There are a lot of assholish people who seem to actually hate the Starks (and any readers who like them) with a passion, which makes little sense to me, but also I've seen a lot of people responding less than politely to people just pointing at things they don't like about the Starks, angrily calling them "Stark haters" and "Danny lovers" (even tho most of the times they never mention Danny).

Just chill m'dudes, you can dislike something about a character without hating it, and someone can criticize a character you like, without it meaning that they're an asshole.

I like the Starks, yet they all have flaws.

Ned is too honorable and dumb when it comes to scheming. He's still a good parent, firend, and a good guy, a good ruler even.

Cat is an absolute Bitch towards Jon, and LSH is a revenged filled psycho, and the first time you read ASOIAF she can come of as annoying, yet, OMFG the pain this woman is in, how much has she suffered, in a few months she: had her child thrown off a tower, her husband died, her daughters where taken captive, her sons died, her father died, her only remaining son also died, she got killed and her brother got taken captive. Holy fuck I feel so sad for her.

Robb made a few mistakes, but he's still a much better military commander than he has the right to be, and he's still a good guy. Another tragic figure, a fifteen year old kid that has all the weight of the world on his shoulders, having to look strong, rule a kingdom, and make impossible decisions.

Jon is a lot like Robb, with the added problems of having to lead a much poorer "kingdom", having to please three kings, and ruling men that openly hate him. Was killing Slynt unquestionably correct? no, I have argued in the past that it made a martyr of him and caused Jon more trouble, but legally speaking... the man openly disobeyed his orders, insulted him quite brutally and even tried to kill him. And Jon didn't kill him as a revenge, we see his thoughts at this moment, he's not getting revenge.

Sansa, what she did to her family in KL was awful, yet she didn't know what she was doing, she didn't know what would happen, she was just a teenage girl rebelling against his father who didn't let her be with who she """loved""". In any other story that would make her a hero. She's the one who has me worried the most, she has been manipulated no stop, and she's not herself anymore, I fear what comes of her story. Sansa has done a lot of bad things, but she's still a teenager, we all made stupid shit as teenagers, and most of us weren't manipulated by grade A psychos.

Arya, Arya is not just a psycho because she kills people, she's a psycho because she kills innocent people (Dareon, the ship ensurer) or non innocent people for stupid reasons (like telling a joke she didn't like) and for revenge. And later feels no remorse. She's eleven! Pointing this out doesn't mean I hate her, again, I worry about what she will become, but she's kinda psycho right now. I think the ending of her story will be she finally returning to her family and realizing she no longer fits in because of all the things she's done.

Bran's skinchanging of Hodor is disgusting an akin to rape, but he's a broken little boy, he doesn't know better, I think GRRM and TCOTF are shaping him to be a villain, but for now he's just a boy, he's not evil, tho some things he does are fucked up, and it's okay to point it out.

Rickon... fuck Rickon, him I actually hate.

 

Also, there's a lot of sexism tied up with the Cat/Sansa hate, I'm not saying that if you hate them you're sexist, but a lot of people do hate them for that reason, we should just ignore those people.

[Lord Lannister]

Most of it stems for the childish mentality of "why don't people like what I like?! Something must be wrong with them!"

[Angel Eyes]

In the cases of Catelyn and Sansa, the way they acted and their stupid decisions in the first book have pretty much damned them in the eyes of a lot of readers.

From the TV Tropes page of Never Live it Down Literature:

• A Song of Ice and Fire:
  • Catelyn Stark, who is otherwise a kind and caring mother and a woman with a strong sense of honor and duty, is often remembered for being a stone-cold, callous bitch due to her poor treatment of her husband's illegitimate son, Jon Snow: her son lies unconscious, forever a cripple, and in a moment of mad grief, she tells Jon (who is also grieving and worried for his half brother), "It should have been you," before breaking down in tears. She never lives that one down, it seems. It's a big Kick the Dog moment, but let's be perfectly honest: who doesn't get one of those in this series? It doesn't help that it's one of the first things readers see her do and as such, something like this tends to stand out.
    • Oh, and in the first book she arrests Tyrion Lannister for a crime he has been completely innocent of, and by sheer luck (and some power of his wits) he gets out of the mess alive. Justified since she feels she can trust her childhood friend Littlefinger who implicated Tyrion, not having realized how much he has changed over the years, and the crime in question was attempted murder of her already crippled son, so she isn't thinking too clear on the matter. Nevertheless, her mistreatment of not one but two fan favorites has built her quite a reputation in fanon. For instance, if in fanfics any of her children are paired with anyone of the Lannisters (or their bannermen, or any of the Starks' enemies), in most cases expect Catelyn to oppose the match with all her might, up to threats of disowning her children, no matter how much in love the couple is and how politically profitable the marriage can be.
  • Similarly, Sansa Stark, Catelyn's daughter, is largely defined by her naivety and ignorance in the first book, and forever characterized as Too Dumb to Live and Horrible Judge of Character. Granted she did make some idiotic mistakes, chief among them believing Joffrey was her prince charming, betraying her father's escape plans to Cersei and not backing up Arya about Joffrey attacking the butcher's boy. (Which gets the boy and Sansa's own direwolf killed). However fans seems to forget she was only an eleven year old girl coming from a sheltered upbringing, with parents who totally failed to prepare her for the dangers of court. Despite the subsequent hell she goes through, and becoming much savvier and less idealistic, the vitriol against her is worse than that against some villains. Her case isn't helped by being a Foil for her little sister Arya, a scrappy, tomboyish underdog who manages to be a better judge of character than her parents and older siblings put together, and is frequently bullied by Sansa.
•  

 

[CamiloRP]

5 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

In the cases of Catelyn and Sansa, the way they acted and their stupid decisions in the first book have pretty much damned them in the eyes of a lot of readers.

From the TV Tropes page of Never Live it Down Literature:

• A Song of Ice and Fire:
  • Catelyn Stark, who is otherwise a kind and caring mother and a woman with a strong sense of honor and duty, is often remembered for being a stone-cold, callous bitch due to her poor treatment of her husband's illegitimate son, Jon Snow: her son lies unconscious, forever a cripple, and in a moment of mad grief, she tells Jon (who is also grieving and worried for his half brother), "It should have been you," before breaking down in tears. She never lives that one down, it seems. It's a big Kick the Dog moment, but let's be perfectly honest: who doesn't get one of those in this series? It doesn't help that it's one of the first things readers see her do and as such, something like this tends to stand out.
    • Oh, and in the first book she arrests Tyrion Lannister for a crime he has been completely innocent of, and by sheer luck (and some power of his wits) he gets out of the mess alive. Justified since she feels she can trust her childhood friend Littlefinger who implicated Tyrion, not having realized how much he has changed over the years, and the crime in question was attempted murder of her already crippled son, so she isn't thinking too clear on the matter. Nevertheless, her mistreatment of not one but two fan favorites has built her quite a reputation in fanon. For instance, if in fanfics any of her children are paired with anyone of the Lannisters (or their bannermen, or any of the Starks' enemies), in most cases expect Catelyn to oppose the match with all her might, up to threats of disowning her children, no matter how much in love the couple is and how politically profitable the marriage can be.
  • Similarly, Sansa Stark, Catelyn's daughter, is largely defined by her naivety and ignorance in the first book, and forever characterized as Too Dumb to Live and Horrible Judge of Character. Granted she did make some idiotic mistakes, chief among them believing Joffrey was her prince charming, betraying her father's escape plans to Cersei and not backing up Arya about Joffrey attacking the butcher's boy. (Which gets the boy and Sansa's own direwolf killed). However fans seems to forget she was only an eleven year old girl coming from a sheltered upbringing, with parents who totally failed to prepare her for the dangers of court. Despite the subsequent hell she goes through, and becoming much savvier and less idealistic, the vitriol against her is worse than that against some villains. Her case isn't helped by being a Foil for her little sister Arya, a scrappy, tomboyish underdog who manages to be a better judge of character than her parents and older siblings put together, and is frequently bullied by Sansa.
•  

 

Yeah, I understand this, I'm just saying that a lot of people seem to hate the anti-stark assholiness without realizing they're becoming anti-anti-stark assholes in return, that's sad. Two sides of the same coin really: one side says "I don't like this one thing about this one character, it must mean they are awful" and the other says: "You don't like one thing about one character, that must mean you hate that character and al their fans"

[Curled Finger]

It's probably just a cheap way to get post counts in a topic.  There isn't much left to cover is there? 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.   You don't have to post in these topics.  Eventually the pests do go away.   We had a guy here for about a year not that long ago.   Every post was how much better Wheel of Time is than ASOIAF, character comparisons--I swear my head nearly exploded after the 2nd topic.  So he eventually went elsewhere.   This is a book club.  We can come up with better things to discuss than our feelings about other people's feelings about characters.   Some folks are blind.  Some are contrary and can't help it.   There are mysteries to solve and people to find.   I demand to know where the knight of seashells is.   Who has Tyrek and why?  Could Ashara's baby have survived?  Is Howland Reed incapacitated and that's why the kids are escorting Bran?  Who will kill that miserable Sybell Westerling?  Where is Septon Chayle?  Where is Olyvar Frey and why is he still hidden?  

Come on, let's talk about Harrenhal or why the Wildlings got stuck beyond the wall.  Let's talk about swords and blood magic and crazy religions of Martin's world.   @CamiloRP how about you take a poll on endgame expectations?  Or tell us what you see at endgame.  That would be a blast.  You could maybe teach or learn something.   Good topics do that.  

I get where you're coming from, Bud, honest I do.  It's just beating a dead horse, Man.  

[Van Gogh]

6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Most of it stems for the childish mentality of "why don't people like what I like?! Something must be wrong with them!"

@Lord Lannister    You must be talking about the Dany haters.  The childishness on this forum are coming from that camp. 

@CamiloRP  Put me on the Dany fan club.  I like Dany a lot.   I can't stand Jon and Sansa.  But that is not the same as disliking all of the Stark family.  I don't have anything against Bran and Rickon.  I do not find Arya interesting but I do not have anything against her either.  I don't care enough about Arya's story to lose much sleep over her murders. 

[Lord Lannister]

2 minutes ago, Van Gogh said:

@Lord Lannister    You must be talking about the Dany haters.  The childishness on this forum are coming from that camp. 

I'd hope you're being ironic with that post.  Rest assured, foolish behavior isn't confined to any one idea.

[Van Gogh]

Just now, Lord Lannister said:

I'd hope you're being ironic with that post.  Rest assured, foolish behavior isn't confined to any one idea.

I hope you're not in denial.  Most of the childish behavior on this forum are coming from the anti-Daenerys people. 

[CamiloRP]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

It's probably just a cheap way to get post counts in a topic.  There isn't much left to cover is there? 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.   You don't have to post in these topics.  Eventually the pests do go away.   We had a guy here for about a year not that long ago.   Every post was how much better Wheel of Time is than ASOIAF, character comparisons--I swear my head nearly exploded after the 2nd topic.  So he eventually went elsewhere.   This is a book club.  We can come up with better things to discuss than our feelings about other people's feelings about characters.   Some folks are blind.  Some are contrary and can't help it.   There are mysteries to solve and people to find.   I demand to know where the knight of seashells is.   Who has Tyrek and why?  Could Ashara's baby have survived?  Is Howland Reed incapacitated and that's why the kids are escorting Bran?  Who will kill that miserable Sybell Westerling?  Where is Septon Chayle?  Where is Olyvar Frey and why is he still hidden?  

Come on, let's talk about Harrenhal or why the Wildlings got stuck beyond the wall.  Let's talk about swords and blood magic and crazy religions of Martin's world.   @CamiloRP how about you take a poll on endgame expectations?  Or tell us what you see at endgame.  That would be a blast.  You could maybe teach or learn something.   Good topics do that.  

I get where you're coming from, Bud, honest I do.  It's just beating a dead horse, Man.  

fair enough, I would say:

a) no idea, not even a guess

b) I think LF has Tyrek, he has many wards and, IMHO, is who orchestrated the riot

c) I think yes, little to no evidence tho, just a feeling (I also think she survived, but have no strong feeling about who she might be)

d) Again, no idea, but I'm willing to bet everything that HR will appear at the very end of the story

e) I hope someone, but no idea

f) didn't theon kill him?

g) I think in Darry, and most of the Freys think him a Stark-loving-traitor, while LST likely still wants to kill him

 

Don't know how to make a poll in here and I honestly have no idea of how the story will end, I doubt it'll be am apocalyptic good-versus-evil battle, and I think the current system will be changed in some way, but that's it.

[CamiloRP]

@Van Gogh There's a lot of people who act like absolute assholes about disliking the Starks, as there's a lot of people who act like absolute assholes about other people disliking the Starks. Same thing with Dany.

[Curled Finger]

14 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

fair enough, I would say:

a) no idea, not even a guess

b) I think LF has Tyrek, he has many wards and, IMHO, is who orchestrated the riot

c) I think yes, little to no evidence tho, just a feeling (I also think she survived, but have no strong feeling about who she might be)

d) Again, no idea, but I'm willing to bet everything that HR will appear at the very end of the story

e) I hope someone, but no idea

f) didn't theon kill him?

g) I think in Darry, and most of the Freys think him a Stark-loving-traitor, while LST likely still wants to kill him

 

Don't know how to make a poll in here and I honestly have no idea of how the story will end, I doubt it'll be am apocalyptic good-versus-evil battle, and I think the current system will be changed in some way, but that's it.

No grand conspiracy ideas about the broken BwB and Northmen joining forces?  I chuckled and wanted to go down the list point for point because these are fun and interesting topics, at least to me.  I get the feeling real life behaviors are lighting your fires.  I think you need an assignment to gather up all the MIA characters and spill some sight on where they could be.   You will have more fun and caring about the silly and inflammatory things people will say.  

I have given our conversation about endgame a lot of thought.   I think there are more than one because of all the fronts.   The Others got to go, get defeated this time, the COTF got to go, those may be tied together ever.  Cersei's got to go.   Euron's got to go.  Little Finger has to disappear with absolute ambiguity regarding his fate.  Dragons got to go.  Wildlings and Mountain Clans got to find their places south of the Wall or in the Vale.  The seasons have to straighten out.  Someone has to run things or not.   So yah, lots of endings.    

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

No grand conspiracy ideas about the broken BwB and Northmen joining forces? 

No coherent one

 

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

I chuckled and wanted to go down the list point for point because these are fun and interesting topics, at least to me. 

Wish you had bud, I was chuckling while writing the other reply.

 

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

I get the feeling real life behaviors are lighting your fires.  I think you need an assignment to gather up all the MIA characters and spill some sight on where they could be.   

Yeah, absolutely, I can't think big picture with ASOIAF bc it seems a futile task, but when looking at one particular character or event things get simpler, the problem is deciding what character. That's a great thing about this forum, people post a lot of different things and suddenly you are writing a paper on the economic value of a golden dragon with a complete stranger.

 

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

 You will have more fun and caring about the silly and inflammatory things people will say.  

This has always been the case, but sometimes can't help it.

 

Quote

I have given our conversation about endgame a lot of thought.   I think there are more than one because of all the fronts.   The Others got to go, get defeated this time, the COTF got to go, those may be tied together ever.  Cersei's got to go.   Euron's got to go.  Little Finger has to disappear with absolute ambiguity regarding his fate.  Dragons got to go.  Wildlings and Mountain Clans got to find their places south of the Wall or in the Vale.  The seasons have to straighten out.  Someone has to run things or not.   So yah, lots of endings.    

It was definitely a fun conversation. I'm still not sure about The Others having to go, I think they are more ""human"" than we think and for me that will be resolved with some agreement or pact or something, not sure about the COTF tho. But yes, Euron, Cersei, LF and most importantly Dragons need to go. And the freefolk must find their place, the seasons must be 'fixed' and I don't know if someone has to run things, but I think the system needs to change in some way. Anything more specific than that tho, I can't say: If you had asked me a book ago, my endgame wouldn't have Aegon, but know it has to, right? two books ago and Dorne would have had a small part if it had any, but now I kinda think they'll be a big player till the last moment, and Robb would have definitely been a player in the end, come Winds anything can happen, Jon could stay dead, Euron could summon Cthulhu, Doran could die of a heart attack, a faceless man could take Cersei's place and Asshai could decide to invade Westeros, I honestly have no idea.

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

No coherent one

Wish you had bud, I was chuckling while writing the other reply.

Yeah, absolutely, I can't think big picture with ASOIAF bc it seems a futile task, but when looking at one particular character or event things get simpler, the problem is deciding what character. That's a great thing about this forum, people post a lot of different things and suddenly you are writing a paper on the economic value of a golden dragon with a complete stranger.

This has always been the case, but sometimes can't help it.

It was definitely a fun conversation. I'm still not sure about The Others having to go, I think they are more ""human"" than we think and for me that will be resolved with some agreement or pact or something, not sure about the COTF tho. But yes, Euron, Cersei, LF and most importantly Dragons need to go. And the freefolk must find their place, the seasons must be 'fixed' and I don't know if someone has to run things, but I think the system needs to change in some way. Anything more specific than that tho, I can't say: If you had asked me a book ago, my endgame wouldn't have Aegon, but know it has to, right? two books ago and Dorne would have had a small part if it had any, but now I kinda think they'll be a big player till the last moment, and Robb would have definitely been a player in the end, come Winds anything can happen, Jon could stay dead, Euron could summon Cthulhu, Doran could die of a heart attack, a faceless man could take Cersei's place and Asshai could decide to invade Westeros, I honestly have no idea.

Since when was coherence a qualifier around this joint?  Our individual chuckling tells me you have more to offer.  It's too big a picture, that's why you have to take one or two characters/plots/mysteries and convince yourself of something...other than Stark hate.   These are some great characters, I say give Vargo Hoat all your hate or that creepy stinking Green Grace.   Shudders.  Maybe we should do an Others hate topic.  They're creepy and mean and encroaching.  They won't let the honest hard working dead rest.  Or perhaps you can ignore those guys and you have a really good idea who that stinking Harpy is?  You post with a small gang of guys and I read every single topic and every single post.  They are epic conversations: you fight and one up each other and sound very smart doing it.  Of course those are primarily military topics, but the whole lousy bunch of you rock whatever you discuss.  I like reading that stuff.  It adds to the flavor of this taco stand.  

Next time you see a Stark hate thread just give 'em the finger and don't read it.  

[CamiloRP]

29 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Since when was coherence a qualifier around this joint?  Our individual chuckling tells me you have more to offer.  It's too big a picture, that's why you have to take one or two characters/plots/mysteries and convince yourself of something...other than Stark hate.   These are some great characters, I say give Vargo Hoat all your hate or that creepy stinking Green Grace.   Shudders.  Maybe we should do an Others hate topic.  They're creepy and mean and encroaching.  They won't let the honest hard working dead rest.  Or perhaps you can ignore those guys and you have a really good idea who that stinking Harpy is?  You post with a small gang of guys and I read every single topic and every single post.  They are epic conversations: you fight and one up each other and sound very smart doing it.  Of course those are primarily military topics, but the whole lousy bunch of you rock whatever you discuss.  I like reading that stuff.  It adds to the flavor of this taco stand.  

Next time you see a Stark hate thread just give 'em the finger and don't read it.  

just... thanks dude, you're too much <3

[Ser Leftwich]

21 hours ago, Van Gogh said:

I hope you're not in denial.  Most of the childish behavior on this forum are coming from the anti-Daenerys people. 

Most of the bad behavior comes from the "pro vs. anti" people. Doesn't matter who they are pro and/or anti, just that they are so blindly loyal to an individual (fictional!) character that they miss that there is a bigger story going on. (And that some of them are so blinded that they miss that the story itself speaks against blind loyalty!!)

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 10/5/2020 at 4:33 PM, CamiloRP said:

Also, there's a lot of sexism tied up with the Cat/Sansa hate, I'm not saying that if you hate them you're sexist, but a lot of people do hate them for that reason, we should just ignore those people.

Do you also call out the people who hate on Daenerys?  A lot of people who hate on her are sexist and those should really examine their own lives. 

I noticed a consistent pattern for a long time now.  We are all a part of it.  When the Dany hating people start their attacks, those who love and adore Daenerys retaliate.  We attack back.  There's a lot to dislike about Jon, Arya, and Sansa.  More than enough to write essays until the end of time.  I am both a fan of Daenerys and a critic of three Starks (Jon, Arya, and Sansa).

[CamiloRP]

2 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Do you also call out the people who hate on Daenerys?  A lot of people who hate on her are sexist and those should really examine their own lives. 

I noticed a consistent pattern for a long time now.  We are all a part of it.  When the Dany hating people start their attacks, those who love and adore Daenerys retaliate.  We attack back.  There's a lot to dislike about Jon, Arya, and Sansa.  More than enough to write essays until the end of time.  I am both a fan of Daenerys and a critic of three Starks (Jon, Arya, and Sansa).

The post was more about calling out anyone who's so blindly fanatic (or I guess anti-fanatic) to be a dick towards people for criticizing a character or for liking a character. The Stark hate thing was just an example, an example I thought relevant bc of late there has been a lot of talk specifically about that and it got to crazy, I saw people calling others "Dany loving Stark haters" just bc they called Arya's murder spree psychopathic. But yes, being that way about any character is stupid.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

9 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

The post was more about calling out anyone who's so blindly fanatic (or I guess anti-fanatic) to be a dick towards people for criticizing a character or for liking a character. The Stark hate thing was just an example, an example I thought relevant bc of late there has been a lot of talk specifically about that and it got to crazy, I saw people calling others "Dany loving Stark haters" just bc they called Arya's murder spree psychopathic. But yes, being that way about any character is stupid.

Answer me this Camilorp.  How often do you come across a post from a Daenerys Targaryen fan which is an obvious attack on another member of this forum?  Compare that to the antisocial behavior coming from the other camp.  I am talking about the Dany hating, Stark defending camp.  Most are civilized but there are more people on that side with antisocial behavior.  Don't get me wrong.  It does not bother me. ( I'm still here and I enjoy each time I visit the forums.    )  I feel sorry for some of those people after reading what Skahaz Mo Kandaq wrote about them on a different topic months ago.  I only wanted to bring this out because you seem to look at only one side. 

[CamiloRP]

6 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Answer me this Camilorp.  How often do you come across a post from a Daenerys Targaryen fan which is an obvious attack on another member of this forum?  Compare that to the antisocial behavior coming from the other camp.  I am talking about the Dany hating, Stark defending camp.  Most are civilized but there are more people on that side with antisocial behavior.  Don't get me wrong.  It does not bother me. ( I'm still here and I enjoy each time I visit the forums.    )  I feel sorry for some of those people after reading what Skahaz Mo Kandaq wrote about them on a different topic months ago.  I only wanted to bring this out because you seem to look at only one side. 

The thing is... I wasn't talking about Dany at all. I saw a lot of self righteous people calling out Stark haters for being rude or mean or whatever, while they themselves are exactly the same, just instead of criticizing the Starks they criticize the anti-Starks, that's all. 

I'm not talking about camps or anything, you like the Starks? good for you! you like Dany? Also good for you! you dislike either or both of them? well that's to bad, hope you can still enjoy the series tho! The problem is being a dick about it, but I wasn't criticizing any "side" and if I had to chose one side I was criticizing it would be the anti-anti-Starks, bc they do the same things they call out of the anti-Starks.

Who made this a Stark v Dany thing? That's dumb, that was never a rivalry.

[TheLastWolf]

On 10/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, CamiloRP said:

I've seen of late many posts and comments about "Stark hatred". And dudes, just chill. There are a lot of assholish people who seem to actually hate the Starks (and any readers who like them) with a passion, which makes little sense to me, but also I've seen a lot of people responding less than politely to people just pointing at things they don't like about the Starks, angrily calling them "Stark haters" and "Danny lovers" (even tho most of the times they never mention Danny)

 

On 10/6/2020 at 2:57 AM, CamiloRP said:

I'm just saying that a lot of people seem to hate the anti-stark assholiness without realizing they're becoming anti-anti-stark assholes in return, that's sad.

 

On 10/6/2020 at 7:49 AM, Curled Finger said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Yup

On 10/6/2020 at 7:49 AM, Curled Finger said:

You don't have to post in these topics.  Eventually the pests do go away. 

Great advice. Thanks CF!

Took me so long to register

7 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Next time you see a Stark hate thread just give 'em the finger and don't read it.  

Finger, yes. Read, I will. Maybe not reply, I shall.

5 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Who made this a Stark v Dany thing? That's dumb, that was never a rivalry.

Blind fanatic worshipers of either side. I would have ended up as one if it hadn't been for this thread and so many other factors. Thanks CamRP!

Frankly, I've been an asshole when it came to replying to Stark hate speeches. This is both a confession and accusation. On 2nd thoughts, make those plural.

I loved Dany and the Targs as much as I did Jon and the Starks when I joined the Forum. Both parties have flaws, I accept, but a large number of the Dany-Targ fanboys and girls repeatedly posted (and still are posting) irrational hate comments about how Arya is Hannibal Lecter+Ted Bundy, how Bran is as cruel as Ramsay for warging into Hodor (desperate times, desperate actions) and for eating dead NW deserters' flesh and dead wildlings' flesh and wights' flesh while in Summer to survive, how Sansa is the next Cersei, how Rickon is a cannibal for sure (it's still uncertain) and how Jon is evil incarnate, next NK, let Others thru (not even happened yet) the Wall he is protecting after so much sacrifices, broke vows in the cases of Janos, Mance, fArya, poor Bowen and poor Ramsay and whatnot.

Due to the stubborn hope that I could lift the veil of bias from haters, (as stubborn as only a teen could be) I did what they did. My shame. Since they have to justify Jon is evil somehow, they sympathise with misogynistic, psychopathic, slimy scum like Janos, Ramsay, Walder et cetera. About 80% of thses haters are inevitablt Dany/Targ fans (worshipers even). 5% are named Lord of the Crossing/Twins/Lord Frey/Wolfslayer etc. You can't expect unbiased statements from them. The rest 15 % are mostly neutral, but hate a particular Stark like Arya for instance. So I ended up venting my ire on Dany/Targs and such and was even irrational in a few issues. A teen's stupid mistake. But all those irratonal 'grownups' have no such excuses.

I can understand the reason for the 80% (80% of Stark haters being Dany fans and 80% of dany fans being Stark haters) club to act that way. How the abomination ended. All true fans of the books sympathise and empathise with them. A Stark ending up as King of 6Ks (weak attempt at democracy) while North seperated and had a Queen (and a really obnoxius snob at that) was not to anyone's liking. And Dany going mad, getting killed by her love (who isn't killed for it), 2 dragons dying, Targs ending all may cause hatred of Starks and Jon. But not an excuse for irrationality.