Can you help Bowen Marsh clean up Jon's mess?

[Rondo]

10 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

"You know nothing, Jon Snow." Winterfell Arya is not Arya and the real Arya is no one. 

Martin purposely set up Jon's mission to rescue Arya to be an act of folly.  He betrayed the watch and his vows to the realm for a fake.  

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Rondo said:

Stabbing Jon was right.  He can't be allowed to turn his feud with Ramsay into another war.  The last thing the kingdom needs right now is more war.  Jon was going to waste a lot of lives and a lot of supplies in a foolish war with Ramsay.  

Jon being dead or not isn't going to stop Ramsay from marching men up to the wall and destroying the NW when they can't give him everything he (allegedly) demanded in the letter. Even assuming Jon is dead, they still don't have Arya, Theon, Dalla (?) and Selyse and company will probably leave for Eastwatch the second they hear Stannis loses.

[bemused]

Omigawd ... and so it continues ...

I've been pretty much absent for over a year and it might as well have been a day .. Round and round it goes and where it stops...

3 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Jon being dead or not isn't going to stop Ramsay from marching men up to the wall and destroying the NW when they can't give him everything he (allegedly) demanded in the letter. Even assuming Jon is dead, they still don't have Arya, Theon, Dalla (?) and Selyse and company will probably leave for Eastwatch the second they hear Stannis loses.

Agreed.

And to boot - when we left him , Jon was not dead and he appears to be trying to call for Ghost.

There are any number of characters who may have had the motivation and opportunity to open Jon's door.

Mel slipped out of the meeting. Before the meeting, she had just been chastising Jon for not keeping Ghost with him and said she felt the danger to Jon was very near. She is not afraid to be near Ghost. Or, although Devan is nervous of Ghost, Mel has sent him on errands to Jon's quarters in the past. Satin is unaccounted for and Dryn, now Jon's page, is unaccounted for ..

Where was Morna White Mask? As a Leader of the Free Folk who came in with Tormund, she should have been there, shouldn't she? What about Iron Emmet? since the spearwives are under his charge and Jon has been considering sending some of them to Hardhome, perhaps Emmet should have been there. Perhaps he and Morna are merely to be late arrivals. (Possibly nick-of-time arrivals ...)

I have a pet theory which could come into play, especially if Jon is able to connect with Ghost and/or raise two fingers to his mouth in an attempt to whistle for him (as he has done so often) - in which case Jon would taste his own blood. I think this would trigger one of Jon's altered consciousness powerful rages (especially in combination).

But like the theory (or parts of it) or not , so much is left open ended at the conclusion of Jon's last chapter that any number of theories (or parts thereof) might materialise.

Whatever the case, Bowen is written as a weak man who has always been a puppet of, or toady for King's Landing and Aliser Thorne, so I don't think he'll be cleaning anything up.

[The Commentator]

23 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

"You know nothing, Jon Snow." Winterfell Arya is not Arya and the real Arya is no one. 

He knows he loves her. This is an example of a prophecy, or rather a guy putting too much trust in them, getting bit hard. He broke his oath for Jeyne.  I suppose a zombified Jon wandering the north in search of Arya can be dramatic.  Like the headless horseman looking for his head.

 

[Rondo]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:28 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Jon being dead or not isn't going to stop Ramsay from marching men up to the wall and destroying the NW when they can't give him everything he (allegedly) demanded in the letter. Even assuming Jon is dead, they still don't have Arya, Theon, Dalla (?) and Selyse and company will probably leave for Eastwatch the second they hear Stannis loses.

The men could send his body to Winterfell to prove that they got rid of the man who was responsible for making trouble.  

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Rondo said:

The men could send his body to Winterfell to prove that they got rid of the man who was responsible for making trouble

Seeing the lack of a full stop, let me finish it. 

... for Stark haters and Targ/ValyARYANs.

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 hours ago, Rondo said:

The men could send his body to Winterfell to prove that they got rid of the man who was responsible for making trouble.  

Which does nearly nothing to address ever other point listed out in the Pink Letter and would still probably result in the NW being wiped out right before onset of winter.

[Tagganaro]

6 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Which does nearly nothing to address ever other point listed out in the Pink Letter and would still probably result in the NW being wiped out right before onset of winter.

Not only that but it arguably creates an even more pressing and immediate problem of the wildlings at the Wall reacting poorly to Jon's assassination.  Unless the Old Pomegranate has a way of preventing that (possibly by taking control of the hostages Jon took from the wildlings) he could be in immediate danger.  We as readers also know or can guess that the Watch was actually in no real danger from Ramsay, for a while at least.  He is stuck in Winterfell in a tense situation with no escape with enemies both within Winterfell and outside it.  So Bowen actually not only accomplished nothing by killing Jon but actually created even more problems for the Watch.  Just as you'd expect from a guy who is primarily known for being a good counter and not a leader or thinker.  

[Saer]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:31 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Seeing the lack of a full stop, let me finish it. 

... for Stark haters and Targ/ValyARYANs.

For Ramsay Snow.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Saer said:

For Ramsay Snow.

Him true. And tRump 

[Springwatch]

Ramsay doesn't have an army. He is dependent on his dad, who is still very much in charge last time we looked.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:11 AM, Rondo said:

Stabbing Jon was right.  He can't be allowed to turn his feud with Ramsay into another war.  The last thing the kingdom needs right now is more war.  Jon was going to waste a lot of lives and a lot of supplies in a foolish war with Ramsay.  

Do they even have feud though? Or even much of/any relationship at all beyond the Pink Letter?

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:13 PM, Rondo said:

Martin purposely set up Jon's mission to rescue Arya to be an act of folly.  He betrayed the watch and his vows to the realm for a fake.  

True. It's a criticism of a person allowing emotions determine the decision. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:13 PM, Rondo said:

Martin purposely set up Jon's mission to rescue Arya to be an act of folly.  He betrayed the watch and his vows to the realm for a fake.  

He didn't give Jon any room for an excuse. 

[Quoth the raven,]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:37 PM, BlackLightning said:

It's the "shield that guards the realms of men" part.

You can't send someone who recently endangered the realms of men on a mission to undermine the realms of men (or rather, a singular realm of men) and say that you are defending the realms of men.

Agreed.

I'm not saying that what Jon did was wrong nor am I saying that the Night's Watch MUST be neutral and apolitical.

What I'm saying that Jon Snow broke an oath in his attempt to do the right thing. And the subterfuge of it all dishonors both himself and the office of the Lord Commander in addition to endangering the entire Night's Watch.

Surely, Jon should've came up with a contingency plan just in case Mance Rayder was caught.

If only Jon had kept to his job and executed Mance, there would be no need for a cover up.  He was the wrong person for a leadership role. 

 

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Quoth the raven, said:

On 3/6/2021 at 2:07 AM, BlackLightning said:

It's the "shield that guards the realms of men" part.

You can't send someone who recently endangered the realms of men on a mission to undermine the realms of men (or rather, a singular realm of men) and say that you are defending the realms of men.

Agreed.

I'm not saying that what Jon did was wrong nor am I saying that the Night's Watch MUST be neutral and apolitical.

What I'm saying that Jon Snow broke an oath in his attempt to do the right thing. And the subterfuge of it all dishonors both himself and the office of the Lord Commander in addition to endangering the entire Night's Watch.

Surely, Jon should've came up with a contingency plan just in case Mance Rayder was caught.

If only Jon had kept to his job and executed Mance, there would be no need for a cover up.  He was the wrong person for a leadership role. 

 

My car already has a bumper, thank you.