International Events 5, "As the World Turns"

[Zorral]

Lately I've been wondering about our French poster, Rippounet (sp?) -- he's not posted for a long time.  I hope he and his girlfriend are OK.  They both had covid the first wave.

I read this a couple of days ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/french-police-attacked-while-trying-to-stop-new-years-eve-rave

And this, of course.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-covid-vaccines-for-gaza-is-the-legal-and-humanitarian-duty-of-israel-1.9404448

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/30/how-has-israel-launched-the-worlds-fastest-covid-vaccination-drive

 

[kiko]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/french-police-attacked-while-trying-to-stop-new-years-eve-rave

 

Just lock the hangar door and let their entitled arses out after two weeks after they pay their fines and make up for the time that others had to waste on them.

[TheLastWolf]

Five Indian cricketers touring tests in Australia land in soup (beef) for allegedly breaking bio bubble protocols.... but really for consuming beef. Shame on Indian fans for bringing the Center's (read BJP RSS) divisive, polarising communal religious fanatic politics into sports. Hindus worship cows. Hindus majority. Muslims eat it. Some Hindus do too. Muslims minority. Riots galore. Secularism my ass. Howdy Modi. Namaste tRump 

[Spockydog]

This is what courage looks like.

Having survived an attempt on his life by Putin's poisoners, Alexei Navalny shows the size of his cojones by returning to Moscow knowing full well he's going to be arrested and jailed upon arrival.

Vladimir Putin is not scared of Alexei Navalny, says Kremlin

Oh yes he is.

 

[Hereward]

45 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

This is what courage looks like.

Having survived an attempt on his life by Putin's poisoners, Alexei Navalny shows the size of his cojones by returning to Moscow knowing full well he's going to be arrested and jailed upon arrival.

Vladimir Putin is not scared of Alexei Navalny, says Kremlin

Oh yes he is.

 

He’s brave alright. But, as I learnt to my cost with some of the Soviet era dissidents, and others more recently with Aung son Suu Kyi, be careful who you admire. Navalny is... problematic in his political views.

[Spockydog]

14 minutes ago, Hereward said:

He’s brave alright. But, as I learnt to my cost with some of the Soviet era dissidents, and others more recently with Aung son Suu Kyi, be careful who you admire. Navalny is... problematic in his political views.

I must admit, I don't know much about this dude or his views. Are they any more problematic than your common or garden Russian? A quick google threw up a record of using racial epithets to describe Georgians. Other than that, are you able to elaborate?

 

[TheLastWolf]

56 minutes ago, Hereward said:

But, as I learnt to my cost with some of the Soviet era dissidents, and others more recently with Aung son Suu Kyi, be careful who you admire. Navalny is... problematic in his political views.

The problem is that the opposition is only slightly less worser than the despots in power. Asia, Africa and Latin America are full of examples 

[Hereward]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

I must admit, I don't know much about this dude or his views. Are they any more problematic than your common or garden Russian? A quick google threw up a record of using racial epithets to describe Georgians. Other than that, are you able to elaborate?

 

Sure. Navalny mainly condemns Putin for being corrupt and undemocratic, in as much as he thinks he would win a fair election. However, he also thinks democracy is an effete Western affectation, and that Putin is far too weak in restoring the Russian Empire and in failing to confront the West. He also has strong views on aligning the country with a variety of lesser breeds such as Arabs, Africans and the Chinese.

Edit: As you say, not really out of keeping with the views of the average Russian, which is part of the problem and one of the reasons he’s popular.

[Spockydog]

8 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Sure. Navalny mainly condemns Putin for being corrupt and undemocratic, in as much as he thinks he would win a fair election. However, he also thinks democracy is an effete Western affectation, and that Putin is far too weak in restoring the Russian Empire and in failing to confront the West. He also has strong views on aligning the country with a variety of lesser breeds such as Arabs, Africans and the Chinese.

Edit: As you say, not really out of keeping with the views of the average Russian, which is part of the problem and one of the reasons he’s popular.

Eek. Sounds like it might be a frying pan / fire type situation. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

58 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Sure. Navalny mainly condemns Putin for being corrupt and undemocratic, in as much as he thinks he would win a fair election. However, he also thinks democracy is an effete Western affectation, and that Putin is far too weak in restoring the Russian Empire and in failing to confront the West. He also has strong views on aligning the country with a variety of lesser breeds such as Arabs, Africans and the Chinese.

Edit: As you say, not really out of keeping with the views of the average Russian, which is part of the problem and one of the reasons he’s popular.

hmm can you cite an article that goes into this?

Admittedly when I type in his name with democracy it’s typically about being a hero for democracy.

To be clear I’m not inserting I find this idea odd.

Many media outlets in the West, particularly in US, often jump on board in glorifying a particular figure or group that is in the process of potentially waging a coup against their enemies.

[Hereward]

9 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

hmm can you cite an article that goes into this?

Admittedly when I type in his name with democracy it’s typically about being a hero for democracy.

To be clear I’m not inserting I find this idea odd.

Many media outlets in the West, particularly in US, often jump on board in glorifying a particular figure or group that is in the process of potentially waging a coup against their enemies.

No, I can’t off the top of my head, sorry! I’ve spent most of my career as a Russia analyst, so this perspective comes from analysis of social media use and Russian broadcasts in Russian, pretty much all of which is proprietary information. The Western media prefers the gallant underdog story.

[Hereward]

There’s an article in The Atlantic: Navalny - Liberal or nationalist. Also one on politico.eu on his racist language against immigrants and people from the Caucasus. You might start there.

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 minutes ago, Hereward said:

There’s an article in The Atlantic: Navalny - Liberal or nationalist. Also one on politico.eu on his racist language against immigrants and people from the Caucasus. You might start there.

Ah thank you.

[Hereward]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Ah thank you.

You’re welcome.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 1/19/2021 at 11:13 AM, Hereward said:

There’s an article in The Atlantic: Navalny - Liberal or nationalist. Also one on politico.eu on his racist language against immigrants and people from the Caucasus. You might start there.

Alright read about him; yeah he looks terrible.

It should always be remembered that geo-politics tends to be more complex than good guy vs evil guy.

I must say I did fall for Western propaganda towards the man who many powers in it have ample reason to sanitize.

 

 

[broken one]

It is known here he's "Great Russia" dude, nationalism, imperial sentiment and such. No matter what his worldview is, more democratic Russia he postulates (or Russia playing with rules) could be more predictable / better option for its neighbours. Putin is imperialist and nationalist anyway, so it should not get worse.

[rotting sea cow]

On 1/19/2021 at 6:10 PM, TheLastWolf said:

The problem is that the opposition is only slightly less worser than the despots in power. Asia, Africa and Latin America are full of examples 

In many cases the oposition is actually way worse than the despots in power. It hasn't stopped the Free World^TM  in supporting them. Extreme example is Afghanistan in the 80s but cases are many.

[Winterfell is Burning]

There's also the matter that in many cases the opposition and the situation for the most part support the same policies and just use buzzwords- usually something like war on terrorism/communism/drugs, defend human rights, fight for minorities, etc-  to attract positive international press and/or aid from foreign countries.

Here in Brazil, we see a good example of this, with the left decrying (correctly) Bolsonaro's environment and rights of minorities policies, but supporting his candidates in the next elections for presidency of the House of Representatives and Senate because they will do what they can to stop corruption investigations and punish those that dare do something against the politicians (Bolsonaro's candidate for the House is even accused of domestic violence against his ex-wife, but nobody seems to mind much).

The truth is that in countries that are more corrupt and/or less democratic,(as it is the case of most of Latin America, Asia, and Africa, but not just there), usually those kinds of ideas and speeches are just window-dressing for control of the political apparatus and the state's funds for the preferred political group so the people that takes over can see their pockets getting fatter. People who are really in favor of change tend to have the entire system turning against them, so rarely have the chance to do much, if they survive. Essentially, a Trump-type of leader (though sometimes with a left-wing speech) would be for the most part business as usual in most of the world.

[Varysblackfyre321]

15 hours ago, broken one said:

It is known here he's "Great Russia" dude, nationalism, imperial sentiment and such. No matter what his worldview is, more democratic Russia he postulates (or Russia playing with rules) could be more predictable / better option for its neighbours. Putin is imperialist and nationalist anyway, so it should not get worse.

From what I gather his foreign policy would be a more militant and possibly more outwardly aggressive in its expansion.

 

6 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

There's also the matter that in many cases the opposition and the situation for the most part support the same policies and just use buzzwords- usually something like war on terrorism/communism/drugs, defend human rights, fight for minorities, etc-  to attract positive international press and/or aid from foreign countries.

Here in Brazil, we see a good example of this, with the left decrying (correctly) Bolsonaro's environment and rights of minorities policies, but supporting his candidates in the next elections for presidency of the House of Representatives and Senate because they will do what they can to stop corruption investigations and punish those that dare do something against the politicians (Bolsonaro's candidate for the House is even accused of domestic violence against his ex-wife, but nobody seems to mind much).

The truth is that in countries that are more corrupt and/or less democratic,(as it is the case of most of Latin America, Asia, and Africa, but not just there), usually those kinds of ideas and speeches are just window-dressing for control of the political apparatus and the state's funds for the preferred political group so the people that takes over can see their pockets getting fatter. People who are really in favor of change tend to have the entire system turning against them, so rarely have the chance to do much, if they survive. Essentially, a Trump-type of leader (though sometimes with a left-wing speech) would be for the most part business as usual in most of the world.

You have to play the tune your audience wants to hear.

In Venezuela there was constant framing by the US of it being a conflict between socialism and capitalism

Guadido, the man the US and many in the west was attempting to prop up as someone who should be the president of Venezuela, avowed himself as a socialist to ingratiate himself towards Venezuelans in defiance to many of his actual political and economic stances.

That was hardly ever brought up by any Republicans or right-leaning news outlets, or individuals  when talking about the man.

He was just portrayed as a noble democracy loving hero. And if you don’t support the US braking international to give him the presidency you’re an apathetic monster about all the Venezuelans.

[broken one]

9 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

From what I gather his foreign policy would be a more militant and possibly more outwardly aggressive in its expansion.

I may be wrong but to me corruption, dictatorship, disregard for international law and war as a tool of internal policy seem to be closely related. If he wants to count and save money (as he suggests), and to stand economy on its feet then walking this path its not an option.

It is not only about moving armies. The state does oppress individuals (and neighbouring states) with procedures and lawless decisions of its authorities (it's just started in Poland too). Navalny wont be able to fix the state without putting this practice to an end. Same with mysterious fires of plants and pipes, explosions of blocks, assassinations (!). To leash the secret service would be a must too. Dunno if it is even possible after so many years, but thats another matter.

btw Navalny's views change in accordance with circumstances, but he tries to say what people want to hear. Crimea.