How could Hoster Tully have improved the Riverlands?

[C.T. Phipps]

On 9/6/2021 at 10:02 AM, Angel Eyes said:

So how did he market Lysa to Jon Arryn, for lack of a better term?

Holster may have been a shitty father but he was apparently a very good salesman. Jon Arryn was in such a secure position that he wasn't concerned about the past scandal of Lysa (He's the King's Hand, Lord of the Vale, etcetera). Holster sold Lysa as a proven fertile young woman.

Which I suppose in Westeros would qualify as taking refuge in audacity.

It also worked.

[C.T. Phipps]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:15 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Lyanna was already resentful of the match due to Robert's philandering behavior (which really makes her look like a hypocrite if she went with Rhaegar willingly). There's a good chance she would have wound up like Cersei had she married Robert.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Robert's love for Lyanna is purely the result of wanting being better than having.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

1. Try to claim a royal wedding for Edmure. Myrcella is a great choice. Or even a Lannister wife. Plus try to renew the Arryn-Stark-Tully alliance with weddings. He could arrange Robert-Arya betrothal. Plus get Bran as a squire and groom him as the new lord of Harrenhal. 

2. Make bridges.

3. Make Riverrun a trading center and get people to live there. Riverlands dont have a great city, juat towns.

4. Gather food and sell it to poor areas (The North) like LF seems to do in the Vale. 

 

[C.T. Phipps]

The thing is, I don't think Holster Tully did BADLY in trying to improve the Riverlands prospects. Marrying Catelyn Stark to Ned Stark and his daughter to the Lord of the Vale really made a geographically connected bulwark that must have looked like an impressive plan to raise their territory to the status of the other Houses.

It was also possible he planned to work with Ned's father in creating a separate Northern Kingdom from the South.

It's just, like all the plans of Martells and men, the people utterly fuck up their strategems. In this case, Lysa Tully hating her father and removing the Vale from the Northern ambition.

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

1. Try to claim a royal wedding for Edmure. Myrcella is a great choice. Or even a Lannister wife. Plus try to renew the Arryn-Stark-Tully alliance with weddings. He could arrange Robert-Arya betrothal. Plus get Bran as a squire and groom him as the new lord of Harrenhal. 

2. Make bridges.

3. Make Riverrun a trading center and get people to live there. Riverlands dont have a great city, juat towns.

4. Gather food and sell it to poor areas (The North) like LF seems to do in the Vale. 

 

5. Stand for President (The Red House)

[C.T. Phipps]

Marry Edmure Tully to Margaery Tyrell.

[Angel Eyes]

15 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The thing is, I don't think Holster Tully did BADLY in trying to improve the Riverlands prospects. Marrying Catelyn Stark to Ned Stark and his daughter to the Lord of the Vale really made a geographically connected bulwark that must have looked like an impressive plan to raise their territory to the status of the other Houses.

It was also possible he planned to work with Ned's father in creating a separate Northern Kingdom from the South.

It's just, like all the plans of Martells and men, the people utterly fuck up their strategems. In this case, Lysa Tully hating her father and removing the Vale from the Northern ambition.

Well in the Martell case, Doran never really tried.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:31 PM, OberynBlackfyre said:

I think he should have brought House Frey closer, maybe helped Walder make some advantageous marriages.  

Is there even a house that the Freys haven't married into already?

[Angel Eyes]

22 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Is there even a house that the Freys haven't married into already?

Outside of the Boltons and if you count Robb's betrothal to an unknown Frey, any place in the North?

[Victor Newman]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:37 AM, Mrstrategy said:

How could Hoster Tully had improved the Riverlands when he was was lord paramount of Riverlands  making them more powerful economically and militarily?

The RL is cursed by geography.  It will always be difficult to defend.  This is why the RL are full of Targaryen loyalists.  A central power that kept the lords in check and significantly reduced conflict benefit the RL and its people.  It was the Targaryens who rid them of Black Harren and his sadistic ironborn.  Peace allowed for the land to prosper.  So there is your answer.  Hoster would serve his people better by maintaining peace. 

[The hairy bear]

Many of the suggestions I'm reading in this thread do not seem to take into account that Hoster had been bedridden for two years before AGOT starts, and surely he was already weak and failing for several years before that.

I also see many marriage proposals for Edmure that we know that would never be accepted. It's even possible that Hoster had proposed them and been refused.

On 7/30/2022 at 2:08 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

1. Try to claim a royal wedding for Edmure. Myrcella is a great choice.

Myrcella was 9 when Hoster died (and Edmure was in his twenties or early thirties). It was never an option.

On 7/30/2022 at 6:39 AM, C.T. Phipps said:

Marry Edmure Tully to Margaery Tyrell.

The Tyrells were conspiring to marry her to king Robert. Failing that, Renly had always been a much better option than Edmure (being brother to the king, in the Small Council and a close 'personal friend' to Loras)

On 7/30/2022 at 2:08 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Plus try to renew the Arryn-Stark-Tully alliance with weddings. He could arrange Robert-Arya betrothal. Plus get Bran as a squire and groom him as the new lord of Harrenhal. 

I really don't see why anyone should listen to Hoster's say on a potential marriage between Arya Stark and Robert Arryn. I also fail to see how that match would benefit the Riverlands.

And Bran is still second in line to WInterfell and the one who would inherit the North if anything happened to Robb. Obviously Ned wants to educate him himself. But if he wished to foster him away, I'm sure he wouldn't send him to such an awful father-figure such as Hoster.

On 7/30/2022 at 2:08 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

2. Make bridges.

Bridges are cool, but the Riverlands have a long history and occupy a central position in the continent's geography. I'd say it's likely that all the bridges that could be realistically built at a reasonable cost, had already been built. But for the biggest rivers like the Green Fork, that may not be an option.

For comparison, the first permanent bridge crossing the Danube in Bratislava was built in 1825, and the first to do so in Hungary was finished in 1849.

[C.T. Phipps]

Frankly, building more bridges will do little probably than to weaken House Frey by making their tolls less costly.

Which is its own advantage.

[Aldarion]

7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Frankly, building more bridges will do little probably than to weaken House Frey by making their tolls less costly.

Which is its own advantage.

That will be the immediate effect, but it will also remove massive amount of Frey's political power, as that seems to be based mostly on their control of the bridge.

[Angel Eyes]

10 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

The RL is cursed by geography.  It will always be difficult to defend.  This is why the RL are full of Targaryen loyalists.  A central power that kept the lords in check and significantly reduced conflict benefit the RL and its people.  It was the Targaryens who rid them of Black Harren and his sadistic ironborn.  Peace allowed for the land to prosper.  So there is your answer.  Hoster would serve his people better by maintaining peace. 

So why did he join the Rebellion?

[C.T. Phipps]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So why did he join the Rebellion?

Because his son in law was a Stark.

Same reason Stannis joined Robert despite the fact Stannis is asinine enough to believe the rebellion is immoral because the king can do whatever the hell they want BY LAW.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Outside of the Boltons and if you count Robb's betrothal to an unknown Frey, any place in the North?

And Dorne, unless you count the Dornish Marches.

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Because his son in law was a Stark.

Same reason Stannis joined Robert despite the fact Stannis is asinine enough to believe the rebellion is immoral because the king can do whatever the hell they want BY LAW.

What I mean is "why would Hoster agree to join the Rebellion since it would have been more pragmatic to cut ties with the Starks?" Until Ned marries Catelyn he isn't associated with the rebels since Brandon has croaked.

[C.T. Phipps]

4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

What I mean is "why would Hoster agree to join the Rebellion since it would have been more pragmatic to cut ties with the Starks?" Until Ned marries Catelyn he isn't associated with the rebels since Brandon has croaked.

Probably because all of his neighbors are in rebellion so he'd be the first place invaded.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Probably because all of his neighbors are in rebellion so he'd be the first place invaded.

And that Aerys asked for Robert Head only because he was Lyanna futur husband, how much time until he ask the head of Brandon's promised or her families ?

[C.T. Phipps]

It's also possible...and I know this sounds insane...Tully was motivated by moral concerns at Aerys outrages.

Okay, you can stop laughing.