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Which of the gods are real?


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Simple enough question, but I can’t figure out the answer. Are they all real? Some of them? None?

We have seen things play out which strongly suggest that R’hlorr is real, or at least some sort of magic associated with R’hlorr is real. But then there is circumstantial evidence that the Seven are real, and the old gods of the North. And that’s before even mentioning the Drowned God, the Many Faced God, the many faiths of Essos, many of which would contradict each other by simply existing.

I’m sure that GRRM won’t give us a straight answer in the books, but what are your thoughts on the matter?

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1 minute ago, Canon Claude said:

Simple enough question, but I can’t figure out the answer. Are they all real? Some of them? None?

Mostly no, but a little bit... sort of

1 minute ago, Canon Claude said:

R’hlorr is real,

No

2 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

or at least some sort of magic associated with R’hlorr is real

Ahh. Definitely 

2 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

 that the Seven are real,

Nope

3 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

the Drowned God,

Nu uh

4 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

the many faiths of Essos, many of which would contradict each other by simply existing.

Many and more. None of em.

 

4 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

the Many Faced God

Well, speaking of many and more. Yes. But not by any definition you want to hear.*

 

5 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

and the old gods of the North

Aaaand, I think your asking, is Bran Stark real? Yes, he has a pov and everything. 

 

So apart from bashing drowned and horselike gods, Id like to bash their religion too. It's nonsense.  Buaracratic drivel thats perfected in Oldtown.

But R'hllor! That's a religion that works with you, it's priests don't just get drunk with Robert or try to burn his nephew, they also do mystic shit. But its for them, for their religion, not for God, because hes bogus.

But Brandon. Who councils Arya in Harrenhall, awakens Jons third eye and talks to his father through some Star Trek like time vortex is so far beyond the realm of humanity that it boarders on the divine. 

What are Gods? All knowing, answers prayers, sees all when it's eyes are opened? I'd have to say yeah, the old gods exist. And it's a 7 year old named Bran

 

* ok fuck it. Ima give my many faced definition.  The many faces is like that scene in the matrix, any one can be an agent=anyone can be your salvation (again with answering the prayers).  So yea, kinda, the Many Faced God exists... and her name is Arya Stark

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25 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Simple enough question, but I can’t figure out the answer. Are they all real? Some of them? None?

We have seen things play out which strongly suggest that R’hlorr is real, or at least some sort of magic associated with R’hlorr is real. But then there is circumstantial evidence that the Seven are real, and the old gods of the North. And that’s before even mentioning the Drowned God, the Many Faced God, the many faiths of Essos, many of which would contradict each other by simply existing.

I’m sure that GRRM won’t give us a straight answer in the books, but what are your thoughts on the matter?

Good thread. I was planning to post something like this. To me, only Rhllor and the Old Gods have evidence to prove that they are real. The weirnet proves the existence of the old gods and Mel and Thoros's magics prover Rhllor exists. Ironically, it seems that the Seven do not exist even though they look down upon the old gods as false.

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52 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Good thread. I was planning to post something like this. To me, only Rhllor and the Old Gods have evidence to prove that they are real. The weirnet proves the existence of the old gods and Mel and Thoros's magics prover Rhllor exists. Ironically, it seems that the Seven do not exist even though they look down upon the old gods as false.

I think that's meant to be the dramatic irony of the religious element. The Seven are at the forefront of the story, they were the ones in power, they were established by the invading Andals, and used to justify their ruthless conquest of what was once a peaceful realm shared between the giants, the children, and the First Men, won back from the Others. The Andals, and then the Targaryens, completely disrupted that harmony and balance, and built a new 'peace' which is based on a complete lie.

Admittedly, I don't know how R'hlorr and the old gods are supposed to cohabit. They both see the Others for the threat that they are, but that's literally the only thing keeping them on the same side. R'hlorr's followers hate the old god worshippers and view them as heretics, while the old god worshippers see the Red God as just another false interloper. 

As to all the other gods? I don't know, really.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn
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4 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I think that's meant to be the dramatic irony of the religious element. The Seven are at the forefront of the story, they were the ones in power, they were established by the invading Andals, and used to justify their ruthless conquest of what was once a peaceful realm shared between the giants, the children, and the First Men, won back from the Others. The Andals, and then the Targaryens, completely disrupted that harmony and balance, and built a new 'peace' which is based on a complete lie.

Admittedly, I don't know how R'hlorr and the old gods are supposed to cohabit. They both see the Others for the threat that they are, but that's literally the only thing keeping them on the same side. R'hlorr's followers hate the old god worshippers and view them as heretics, while the old god worshippers see the Red God as just another false interloper. 

As to all the other gods? I don't know, really.

Funny. I figured a guy called Floki would simply ramble and rant about how “the gods are not here! The gods are not here!!!”

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1 hour ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

What are some examples that you think could be manifestations of their power?

When Catelyn prays to the mother so the battle between Stannis and Renly won't happen, we also have Sam praying to mother for mercy, and Davos hearing the voice of Seven, I admit they aren't the most obvious instances of magic though. 

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11 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

What are some examples that you think could be manifestations of their power?

The Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the green grass.

Their effect on human behavior:  The septons that stopped Sistermen from throwing dwarves into the sea; the hymn that stopped Sandor in his tracks; the Mother speaking to Davos; the ideal of the True Knight; Meribald wandering on bare feet, distributing oranges to children who have never seen one.

But you probably have in mind powers and other goodies handed out to mortals, probably in exchange for their souls.  Magic.

Edited by Mister Smikes
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3 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

The Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the green grass.

The existence of those things can’t be conclusively attributed to the Seven.

3 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Their effect on human behavior:  The septons that stopped Sistermen from throwing dwarves into the sea; the hymn that stopped Sandor in his tracks; the ideal of the True Knight; Meribald wandering on bare feet, distributing oranges to children who have never seen one.

That’s not the power of the Seven, that’s their influence. People choose to be inspired and live their lives in accordance to the Seven. And even if that’s splitting hairs, I was referring to hard evidence that the gods exist, and have godlike power. Call that “magic” if you want, but that’s what I was referring to with this topic.

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15 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

That’s not the power of the Seven, that’s their influence.

Okay.

Quote

I was referring to hard evidence that the gods exist, and have godlike power.

GRRM has made it clear in interviews that he is never going to give you that.  Not necessarily no evidence, but no "hard" evidence.

Quote

Call that “magic” if you want, but that’s what I was referring to with this topic.

Many on this forum would not consider that "hard" evidence of the existence of Rh'llor (etc.) either. 

For the Seven all I can offer you are the healing hands of the Elder Brother, but we have seen no "hard" evidence of that yet.  Though my guess is, Sandor will be hard to recognize when he reappears, now that the Elder Brother has had a go at his reinjured face.

But in general, the Seven don't seem to do the sort of thing you are asking about.  When Jaime asks Lancel if the Seven will give him a new hand, Lancel says no, they won't.   They'll just give him things like wisdom, courage, justice and mercy and stuff.   But I bet Rh'llor will give him that new hand.   Just not any wisdom, courage, justice or mercy.

Edited by Mister Smikes
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Depends on what we are to consider a god. An omnipotent and omnipresent being (see:christianity, islam) or just a powerful being with subnatural abilities (asatru, greek, roman faith). 

Is there an omnipotent and omnipresent being under ASOIAF? Maaaayyybeeee. Is there a powerful (humanoid or not) being with subnatural abilities hiding somewhere in this fantasy world? Definitely. In a sense, Euron could become a god. Depends on what you expect from a god, what are your requirements. 

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On 10/26/2021 at 1:39 AM, Canon Claude said:

Simple enough question, but I can’t figure out the answer. Are they all real? Some of them? None?

We have seen things play out which strongly suggest that R’hlorr is real, or at least some sort of magic associated with R’hlorr is real. But then there is circumstantial evidence that the Seven are real, and the old gods of the North. And that’s before even mentioning the Drowned God, the Many Faced God, the many faiths of Essos, many of which would contradict each other by simply existing.

I’m sure that GRRM won’t give us a straight answer in the books, but what are your thoughts on the matter?

All of them. Not embodied, or even as imagined, but something like the old gods in the weirnet - a hive mind or something.

R'hllor is probably a special case and more powerful in the south/daylight/summer. The FM treat him as an exception - Jacquen says: "By all the gods of sea and air, and even by him of fire, I swear it." He placed his hand in the mouth of the weirwood. "By the seven new gods and the old gods beyond count, I swear it."

The rest, I guess, are ice magic and their energy is stored and preserved in ice. We'll see more of them in the north and the night. Certainly the old gods typically communicate to sleepers in their dreams.

On 10/26/2021 at 2:04 PM, WhatAnArtist! said:
On 10/26/2021 at 9:59 AM, asongofheresy said:

I think the Seven shouldn't be disregarded at all, they have some mystery to them as well. 

What are some examples that you think could be manifestations of their power?

Bran the Builder probably should be considered an aspect of the Smith. The Wall and the incredible castles are evidence of someone supernatural - perhaps more than one someone.

Also the Sandor receiving the prayed-for peace is fairly convincing to me - it wasn't at all likely he would.

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