Jump to content

The Wheel of Time TV: Ta'veren Tango (Book Spoilers)


IlyaP
 Share

Recommended Posts

But that's the thing. Min doesn't depend on Rand. It's a very one-sided relationship when it comes to emotional labor. 

We don't see Min express any kind of frustration about that in the books because, I suppose, RJ is writing from an angle that this is what women do, and do well. I doubt if he'd ever have even used the term emotional labor.

I'd have less issue with all this if Min fell in love with Rand independently, but since prophesy is what draws her to Rand, that kinda takes away from any claim of interdependence, I feel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah spoilers are allowed so I don't have to spoiler tag.

I know that the intent was to make Rand going off a happy ending, but since he doesn't really have a good relationship with the 3 gfs, to me it honestly reads like he's just off to be a deadbeat dad. You know, the type who's gonna be off doing god-knows-what while Elayne and Avi lead their people and Min serves Tuon. :lmao:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Min is the best relationship because they actually spend enough time together talking to one another and doing couplish things that it seems fleshed out. when in reality it's badly written as well. I do think Rand needs Min - someone who sees him as the woolheaded sheepherder, the one who grounds him, and yes, shoulders his emotional burden - the romance is a bonus. I kind of don't mind that Min is the one doing all the work just because it's the end of the world, ya know? I wish it were written better, but it's not, and Rand does need that support, so at least he's getting it? I'm sure if the roles were reversed, Rand would be best boy for Min when she needed it. We've all been in relationships where our own needs take a backseat for a while because our partner is going through it, right?

Min does do research which (I think?) kind of leads Rand to breaking the seals or affirming a hunch he had. Something. The part where Min has no choice in this relationship but to fall in love mainly bothers me in one way - that she doesn't let herself see if she even likes Rand before devoting herself to him. OK, she knows she will fall in love with him. She can accept that and not fight it, that's fine. But instead of just telling herself 'I guess I'm in love now", I would have liked to see her just spend time with him so she could get to know him and let herself fall inevitably in love. No need to rush headfirst into it. It's so frustrating.

As for whatever they do with the harem, I don't really care. If they do it well, they can do just about anything. If they do it poorly, everyone will hate whatever they do. I don't have any expectations on that score. As for justifying a polyamourous relationship - no, in our world it doesn't have to be justified, but in Randland it's not exactly a known quantity. What Rand is doing is scandalous to Eg and Nyn. In the show Nyn seemed a little surprised by Alanna's set up, so again, maybe it does need a little bit of justification? Mainly because it's not something Rand had considered before leaving home.

Edited by Gertrude
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gigei said:

Ah spoilers are allowed so I don't have to spoiler tag.

I know that the intent was to make Rand going off a happy ending, but since he doesn't really have a good relationship with the 3 gfs, to me it honestly reads like he's just off to be a deadbeat dad. You know, the type who's gonna be off doing god-knows-what while Elayne and Avi lead their people and Min serves Tuon. :lmao:

 

Oh, for sure, I don't think Rand want a political job anymore. But I'm damn sure he'll be there for his kids, because he was adopted himself. 14 books of Rand later, I think that part didn't have to be stated. In any case, I doubt Elayne, Min or Aviendha, or, for that matter, Cadsuane, would let him ignore his children. Deadbeat dads don't really seem to be a thing, in the books. Min's dad actually took her with him to the mines, for instance, and Nynaeve's dad taught her tracking and took her hunting with him.

Single dads in general are shown to be as into parenthood as single moms, which is one of those understated ways in which WoT does well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what the major storybeats in season 2 will be. What we know is that storylines from book 2 and book 3 (and possibly minor elements leftover from book 1, like the introduction of Elayne, or brought forward from book 4 such as possibly some Aiel stuff) will be included in the season. Mat is said to be entering his book 3 storyline (escape from Tar Valon, probably with Thom, off to save someone). Moiraine and Lan will get their own storyline, which resolves about coping with her channeling problem and possibly doing research relating to the prophecies and the seals of the DO's prison. Rand is ostensibly off on his own and believed dead by some characters.

Combining (elements of) book 2 and book 3 raises a big question though: what with the 2 finals, Falme and Tear respectively? Will both be in the show (in changed form maybe)? if so, will they happen concurrently or would Falme be a mid-season highpoint? Tear does not really require any character but Rand if the rest has their climax at Falme, but some characters (notably Egwene, Mat and Moiraine) need to be in a position to join Rand as he enters Rhuidean (probably in early S3).

With the Seanchan explicitely being shown at the Western Coast, and with costumes etc apparently being prepares for the Falme/Toman Head area, it looks like Falme will happen in some form (even if it may be limited to Egwene being captured there - Egwene being captured is something that Rafe has stated will be included in the show). 

Tear almost certainly also has to happen in some form, with Rand taking the sword and probably with the Aiel showing up.

Both could be sorta combined, if (in the style of the weird Rand-Ba'alzamon battles from the book) Rand is physically in Tear but he travels through TAR to Falme or if his Tear activities are visible in the sky of Falme (maybe in connection to the Horn being blown).

There's also the question of who goes where. Matt will start in Tar Valon (I guess meeting Thom to help him escape, like in book 3), Rand is off on his own and may enter the Aiel waste (though not go to Rhuidean yet; he may meet Aviendha), and no doubt Selene will find some way to meet him and push/pull him towards "greatness".

Things we know is that a lord Barthanes has been cast, Josha Stradowski and the new Mat actor shot together at least one day (may be more in the final block of filming of S2) and that Ingtar and Masema have also been cast. The Shienaran characters will no doubt go after Fain and the horn, presumably with Perrin. The question is, who runs into who?

Rand and Mat may meet up in Cairhien, maybe even with Perrin and the others in order to join the hunt. Or Rand (with or without Mat) could go to Tear. If Mat links up with Perrin and co, he can sound the horn. If not, Perrin may take that honor/burden.

The girls probably go to the Tower I guess, and they may meet Elayne there (alternatively, Elayne has yet to go to the Tower and she instead happens to be near whatever location Lord Barthanes is in Cairhien when Rand and/or Mat show up there). Egwene probably is tricked by black ajah into being taken by the Seanchan. And like in the books, Egwene may be used to pressure Rand into going to Falme (or alternatively, to Tear) by Fain and/or Ishamael and/or Selene. The girls probably solve the problem themselves, like in the books, though if Mat is there (or even a still not channeling Moiraine) he may help.

What do you think, will both Falme and Tear happen, concurrently or in sequence? Who will go where?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Wouter said:

There's also the question of who goes where. Matt will start in Tar Valon (I guess meeting Thom to help him escape, like in book 3), Rand is off on his own and may enter the Aiel waste (though not go to Rhuidean yet; he may meet Aviendha), and no doubt Selene will find some way to meet him and push/pull him towards "greatness".

Why not go to Rhuidean yet?  It would vastly simplify the story by switching the order of Rhuidean and Tear.
Save Tear for season 3.  Have the Seanchan remain undefeated in Toman Head, they they sweep the westlands from the south to Altara and take Ebou Dar same time as Rand brings the Aiel over the Spine to take Tear at the end of season 3.

Season 4 is the stalemate war between Rand and the Seanchan, after Illian begs him to stop them.   Perhaps Egwene doesn't even escape the Seanchan until the end of Season 4.

Season 5 Egwene finally meets the Wise Ones and learns to be a Dreamer.  On the way out of Ebou Dar she gets the Bowl of the Winds.  Rand goes into Cairhien, hunting Rahvin, while losing his mind to the Corruption.  The Borderlanders meet him in Cairhien and pledge themselves to him there.

I'm not even sure the other Forsaken are even free yet, aside of Ishy, in the show, and Lanfear, who seems to be cast already.  If there is another Seal to break before the rest are freed,  it's probably  in the Stone of Tear.

Edited by SpaceChampion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

Why not go to Rhuidean yet?  It would vastly simplify the story by switching the order of Rhuidean and Tear.
Save Tear for season 3.  Have the Seanchan remain undefeated in Toman Head, they they sweep the westlands from the south to Altara and take Ebou Dar same time as Rand brings the Aiel over the Spine to take Tear at the end of season 3.

Mostly because Judkins stated some people would be mostly following their book 2 storylines, and others their book 3 stories. Integrating Rhuidean would mean a significant part of book 4 would be included, and little of book 3 (only some of Mat's storyline, really). And Rand would be alone there, as Perrin, Egwene, Moiraine etc are otherwise engaged and getting Mat to Rhuidean seems unlikely as well. Why would he enter the waste and how would he reach Rhuidean? Yet Rand and Mat meet, probably in one of the first 6 episodes (going by what Josha Stradowski said about working with the new Mat actor). I don't think Rand will stay separate from the rest of the TR crew for so long.

Tear and the Stone have been namedropped and even shown in S1, probably in preparation for S2.

It may be that Rand meets a group of Aiel early in the season, as a sign for the Aiel that a suspected Car'a'carn is around. Almost certainly Selene will seek him out as well, and it seems more likely to me that she will manipulate him back towards the wetlands and towards open recognition of being the dragon, rather than to Rhuidean and to obscure Aiel prophecies that aren't widely known.

Edited by Wouter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't know how the story flows well if Rand goes to Rhuidean before Tear. There's just so much in the waste. The aftermath of Couladin and the Sahido breaking away doesn't seem as urgent if you switch the order. They let the Shaido just do their thing while they detour to Tear, fulfill a quick prophesy or two, then clean up their mess. Again, things can be written around, but why does Mat even go to Rhuidean with Rand in this scenario? Like I said, things can be written around, but there's plenty of things to happen without pulling in the Aiel in full force yet. Just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah, I don't know how the story flows well if Rand goes to Rhuidean before Tear. There's just so much in the waste. The aftermath of Couladin and the Sahido breaking away doesn't seem as urgent if you switch the order. They let the Shaido just do their thing while they detour to Tear, fulfill a quick prophesy or two, then clean up their mess. Again, things can be written around, but why does Mat even go to Rhuidean with Rand in this scenario? Like I said, things can be written around, but there's plenty of things to happen without pulling in the Aiel in full force yet. Just my opinion.

To be honest it kind of flows better in a way.  Rand leads the people of the dragon to Tear to take the stone instead of them just randomnly deciding to go there.  I don't think the Shaido arc (if there is one) will last beyond the waste parts.  Likely Couladin with Lanfears backing making a power play then getting killed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

To be honest it kind of flows better in a way.  Rand leads the people of the dragon to Tear to take the stone instead of them just randomnly deciding to go there.  I don't think the Shaido arc (if there is one) will last beyond the waste parts.  Likely Couladin with Lanfears backing making a power play then getting killed.

Or in this scenario Tear replaces Cairhien, and the Shaido go for it with Rand hot on their heels. 

Also I think Dumai's Wells is still important to do, but maybe the Shaido can be replaced by a different player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

To be honest it kind of flows better in a way.  Rand leads the people of the dragon to Tear to take the stone instead of them just randomnly deciding to go there.  I don't think the Shaido arc (if there is one) will last beyond the waste parts.  Likely Couladin with Lanfears backing making a power play then getting killed.

Couladin never had Lanfear's backing, wasn't that a plot of Asmodean at first (to give him the Rhuidean markings to name him Car'a'carn) and of Sammael later? Lanfear was only interested in backing Rand/Lews Therin at that point.

As for Rand leading the Aiel to Tear: I admit it would make sense, but in that case Judkin's statements about book 2 and 3 storylines being used for S2 would seem very misleading. If he is not lying, I think Rand is more likely to turn up at Barthanes' place than at Rhuidean.

 

Edited by Wouter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my head I don't see Rand leading the Aiel to Tear nearly as compelling, but I'm not a writer. The idea of them randomly showing up to Tear is easily explained by the magic plot device of ta'veren. I also think they've kind of seeded the thought of the Aiel out and about searching with the Aiel in the mining town. I'm not sure how you get Mat, Egwene and Moiraine into Rhuidean with Rand if they don't go together - again, write something different, I know. I also kind of dislike the idea of seeing the glass columns before we've really spent time with the Aiel. It just seems like a lot to put into a season that already has the Horn. I can see combining Rand's book 2/3 because he doesn't do much in 3, but 2 and 4 has a lot for him. We'll know in a year I guess.

If we don't get Dumain's Wells, I fear the fan base will well and truly riot. There is only so much you can cut. I do hope it's the end of the Shaido however - a very good place to excise them as a cohesive group.

Edited by Gertrude
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Wouter said:

Couladin never had Lanfear's backing, wasn't that a plot of Asmodean at first (to give him the Rhuidean markings to name him Car'a'carn) and of Sammael later? Lanfear was only interested in backing Rand/Lews Therin at that point.

As for Rand leading the Aiel to Tear: I admit it would make sense, but in that case Judkin's statements about book 2 and 3 storylines being used for S2 would seem very misleading. If he is not lying, I think Rand is more likely to turn up at Barthanes' place than at Rhuidean.

 

 Keep it simple for the show, Lanfear backs Couladin to make Rand man up and go for power like she wants. Asmodean isn't really needed in the show as people seem to know what they are doing when channeling right away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Gertrude said:

In my head I don't see Rand leading the Aiel to Tear nearly as compelling, but I'm not a writer. The idea of them randomly showing up to Tear is easily explained by the magic plot device of ta'veren. I also think they've kind of seeded the thought of the Aiel out and about searching with the Aiel in the mining town. I'm not sure how you get Mat, Egwene and Moiraine into Rhuidean with Rand if they don't go together - again, write something different, I know. I also kind of dislike the idea of seeing the glass columns before we've really spent time with the Aiel. It just seems like a lot to put into a season that already has the Horn. I can see combining Rand's book 2/3 because he doesn't do much in 3, but 2 and 4 has a lot for him. We'll know in a year I guess.

If we don't get Dumain's Wells, I fear the fan base will well and truly riot. There is only so much you can cut. I do hope it's the end of the Shaido however - a very good place to excise them as a cohesive group.

Rand getting Callandor will likely be made into a much bigger thing than it is in the books (It's actually pretty minor) because of the familiarity of the trope, sword pulled only by chosen one etc.

The Shaido aren't necessary for Dumai's Wells.  Aes Sedai kidnapping and beating  Rand is.  Any army can be the one the Ash'aman destroy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

The Shaido aren't necessary for Dumai's Wells.  Aes Sedai kidnapping and beating  Rand is.  Any army can be the one the Ash'aman destroy.

The Seanchan.  Just have Dumai's Wells on the border between Altara and Illian.

In the scenario I described, the Seanchan aren't defeated in Toman Head, and sweep all the way conquering everywhere between Falme and Ebou Dar.  After Tear, Illian begs Rand for help.  They get in a stalemate for much of the 4th season, with Dumai' Wells at the end.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think they should combine Rand's book 2 and 3 storylines, I think they should be eliminated, with just the end with the Stone of Tear moved to season 3 after he brings the Aiel over the Spine.

Lanfear can be a later threat to seducing Rand.

There is no reason Moiraine and Mat need to go to the Aiel Waste with Rand.  They can go to Rhuidean later, by Gateway, once Rand mentions the other 'Finn ter'angreal is there.

 

Edited by SpaceChampion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like they were filming in Morocco last year for Season 2 according to both the costume designer and production designer.  Surely the Aiel Waste!

https://www.wotseries.com/2021/04/29/scoop-new-season-two-costume-designer-possible-filming-in-morocco/

 

The real issue with Dumai's Wells is when is Rand going to set up the Black Tower?  If not him, they should give that to Mazrim Taim to do independently, with Logain as our lead on that storyline.

Edited by SpaceChampion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Slurktan said:

 Keep it simple for the show, Lanfear backs Couladin to make Rand man up and go for power like she wants. Asmodean isn't really needed in the show as people seem to know what they are doing when channeling right away.

Asmodean is likely in the show, he was clearly shown among the 8 Forsaken pictured in Steppin's scene (the one with the guitar). And the interaction with both Asmodean and Lanfear was good in the books, with lots of potential for the show. Asmodean is one of the most distinctive forsaken. 

For the time being, I still believe Judkins when he talks about storylines from book 2 and 3. Though Rand probably will spend time in the waste, probably early in the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Deadline has confirmed - oddly in a different article about the Criminal Minds reboot - that Wheel of Time has been renewed for "two more seasons." Unclear if they are counting the already-mostly-filmed second season, but in any case Wheel of Time will get a third season, and possibly a fourth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...