[Spoilers] Episode 104 Discussion

[El Guapo]

18 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The show wants us to believe that Rhaenyra is afraid of motherhood and dying in childbirth because of what happened to Aemma. That makes sense within the show canon. But the thing is, we know she’s going to have five kids in quick succession after getting married, with an attempt at a sixth. And because of last episode, we know that Rhaenyra is now aware of moon tea. Maybe the argument is just “well, she discovered she loved motherhood after all!” but it makes for a rather disjointed arc. Five children is a lot, especially when she already had an “heir and a spare” after Luke. If she was that afraid of dying in childbirth, she wouldn’t have gotten pregnant after that.

This last episode she expressed those fears with Daemon  and he told her that she can’t live her life in fear or she may miss out on the good things in life or something to that effect. She heeds his advice and gets over it.

[The Bard of Banefort]

24 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

This last episode she expressed those fears with Daemon  and he told her that she can’t live her life in fear or she may miss out on the good things in life or something to that effect. She heeds his advice and gets over it.

I know, but still. . . that’s a lot of kids. Maybe she was trying to one-up Alicent? Lol

Edited September 17, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort

[Ran]

I can understand her having Jace -- having an heir of her own, a male heir no less, is important. Luke too -- the spare heir. I can kind of even understand Aegon and Viserys, who just happen to have really strategic names to go along with their unimpeachable Valyrian lineage, to flaunt her status and perhaps to appeal to dear old Dad by giving him a namesake and so on.

But Joffrey is a mystery to me, and I guess Visenya will be too, unless it's not just "don't miss out on the good things in life", aka the pleasures of sex, but that after her first child she actually realizes she enjoys being a mother as well. 

I agree it would be nice to see that realization/development on the show, but as I've said before, the challenge of covering so much time in a season means we're going to have to miss key developments in favor of other key developments.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ran

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, Ran said:

But Joffrey is a mystery to me, and I guess Visenya will be too, unless it's not just "don't miss out on the good things in life", aka the pleasures of sex, but that after her first child she actually realizes she enjoys being a mother as well. 

It kinda reminds me of Elizabeth having Charles and Anne as the heir and a spare, then having Andrew and Edward a decade later.  That..didn't work out well, for either Queen, but I think the notion you're gonna treat the first one or two differently then maybe want more when you're in that position makes a lot of sense.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

This last episode she expressed those fears with Daemon  and he told her that she can’t live her life in fear or she may miss out on the good things in life or something to that effect. She heeds his advice and gets over it.

She also told Emma in the first episode that she doesn't want to be a mother.

[El Guapo]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

She also told Emma in the first episode that she doesn't want to be a mother.

She was 14 and not the heir to the throne at that point. People change and circumstances change as they grow older.

[The Bard of Banefort]

15 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

She was 14 and not the heir to the throne at that point. People change and circumstances change as they grow older.

I know, we’re just trying to wrap our brains around why she had so many of them.

45 minutes ago, Ran said:

I can understand her having Jace -- having an heir of her own, a male heir no less, is important. Luke too -- the spare heir. I can kind of even understand Aegon and Viserys, who just happen to have really strategic names to go along with their unimpeachable Valyrian lineage, to flaunt her status and perhaps to appeal to dear old Dad by giving him a namesake and so on.

But Joffrey is a mystery to me, and I guess Visenya will be too, unless it's not just "don't miss out on the good things in life", aka the pleasures of sex, but that after her first child she actually realizes she enjoys being a mother as well. 

I agree it would be nice to see that realization/development on the show, but as I've said before, the challenge of covering so much time in a season means we're going to have to miss key developments in favor of other key developments.

It might be that, in the books at least, Rhaenyra shared the belief that getting pregnant is the sort of thing that just happens and that you shouldn’t try to avoid it (both shows have played down the role of religion in characters’ lives). As we discussed with Jaehaerys and Alysanne, most English-speakers aren’t Catholic, and seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of pregnancy being something that is divinely ordained

I suppose it could be a tactical thing (more kids = more dragon riders) or that Rhaenyra wanted to show off just how capable she was, since that’s something women were respected for, but neither of those seem likely to me.

Or! Maybe she really wanted to have a daughter and was determined to keep trying until she had one. That could work in this context.

[Ran]

5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It might be that, in the books at least,

Oh, the "I don't want to be a mother/don't want to get married" thing is 100% show canon. Book canon, while we don't really know Rhaenyra's mind, there's no great reason to think she had any particular hangups, and no great reason to think she didn't welcome motherhood. But since we don't 100% know, the writers (rightfully) decided to make a choice for their story... with the odd consequence of having the realization that, oh, she's happy to be a mother just something that happens off screen after spending half the season telling us she didn't want to be.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ran

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

44 minutes ago, Ran said:

Oh, the "I don't want to be a mother/don't want to get married" thing is 100% show canon. Book canon, while we don't really know Rhaenyra's mind, there's no great reason to think she had any particular hangups, and no great reason to think she didn't welcome motherhood. But since we don't 100% know, the writers (rightfully) decided to make a choice for their story... with the odd consequence of having the realization that, oh, she's happy to be a mother just something that happens off screen after spending half the season telling us she didn't want to be.

So the part about wanting to see the wonders of the world on dragonback and eat only cake is show canon too? 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[EggBlue]

50 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Or! Maybe she really wanted to have a daughter and was determined to keep trying until she had one. That could work in this context.

that would certainly be a a brand new thing to see in a period drama-ish show

[EggBlue]

46 minutes ago, Ran said:

Oh, the "I don't want to be a mother/don't want to get married" thing is 100% show canon. Book canon, while we don't really know Rhaenyra's mind, there's no great reason to think she had any particular hangups, and no great reason to think she didn't welcome motherhood. But since we don't 100% know, the writers (rightfully) decided to make a choice for their story... with the odd consequence of having the realization that, oh, she's happy to be a mother just something that happens off screen after spending half the season telling us she didn't want to be.

 

you'll probably not answer this... but am I too optimistic to think they'll at least try to explain how Rhaenyra has come to embrace motherhood in episode 6 forward? 

[Ran]

10 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

you'll probably not answer this... but am I too optimistic to think they'll at least try to explain how Rhaenyra has come to embrace motherhood in episode 6 forward? 

Not so far as we've seen. You just have to come up with your own view of it. Maybe Inside the Episode after the jump they'll talk about it and provide some filling in? Don't know.

[EggBlue]

13 minutes ago, Ran said:

Maybe Inside the Episode after the jump they'll talk about it and provide some filling in? 

eh.. I hope they won't do that . these "Inside the Episode" things aren't suppose to add anything to the story

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

you'll probably not answer this... but am I too optimistic to think they'll at least try to explain how Rhaenyra has come to embrace motherhood in episode 6 forward? 

I mean, they have to provide some explanation for it to make sense. Or they'll just hope that people don't remember that Rhaenyra didn't want kids.

[Ran]

14 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I mean, they have to provide some explanation for it to make sense. Or they'll just hope that people don't remember that Rhaenyra didn't want kids.

There's a lot of ways to square the circle without actually stating anything. The problem is while there are plausible ways to resolve it, it's left a mystery (at least through the episodes we've seen). 

[The Bard of Banefort]

Another fascinating trend on the internet: I compared three shows that are all airing right now (HOTD, LOTR, and Cobra Kai) and there’s almost a perfect split between the western and eastern hemisphere:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now 1-d&q=%2Fg%2F11gh329g28,%2Fg%2F11f4034qyf,%2Fg%2F11j0n257zd

[EggBlue]

27 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Another fascinating trend on the internet: I compared three shows that are all airing right now (HOTD, LOTR, and Cobra Kai) and there’s almost a perfect split between the western and eastern hemisphere:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now 1-d&q=%2Fg%2F11gh329g28,%2Fg%2F11f4034qyf,%2Fg%2F11j0n257zd

that was certainly interesting . by the way , what does Cobra Kai have ? is it really any good? 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Another fascinating trend on the internet: I compared three shows that are all airing right now (HOTD, LOTR, and Cobra Kai) and there’s almost a perfect split between the western and eastern hemisphere:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now 1-d&q=%2Fg%2F11gh329g28,%2Fg%2F11f4034qyf,%2Fg%2F11j0n257zd

I'm surprised that Cobra Kai is dominating HotD in Spain, given that ASOIAF is generally pretty popular there and the King's Landing scenes for HotD were filmed there.

[DMC]

.......is it just me or did Ran just get drunk?

[The Bard of Banefort]

54 minutes ago, DMC said:

.......is it just me or did Ran just get drunk?

I think I missed something. . . 
 

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

that was certainly interesting . by the way , what does Cobra Kai have ? is it really any good? 

It’s shockingly good. I’ve never even watched The Karate Kid and I love it.

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm surprised that Cobra Kai is dominating HotD in Spain, given that ASOIAF is generally pretty popular there and the King's Landing scenes for HotD were filmed there.

One reason I’ve seen cited for why people like Cobra Kai is that it doesn’t treat masculinity as something that’s inherently bad—people get into fights because they’re angry or hurt, not because traditionally masculine things are fundamentally toxic. That certainly seems to be part of its appeal in Latin America. Not sure how similar Spain is beyond the shared language.

Even though HOTD is a lot more popular than Rings of Power in the US, I don’t think HOTD is anywhere near the same kind of phenomenon that GOT was here. One telltale sign is how there are markedly fewer think pieces/puff pieces this time—and honestly, it’s a relief. I’d rather HOTD just be a popular TV show than something on par with Marvel or Star Wars. Fandom shouldn’t be exhausting.