Football: Does Infantino have a Time Turner?

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, polishgenius said:

It was the old saying they had about Sheringham- he was slow as fuck by the time he played for us but he kept beating players to it coz the first yard was in his head. 

He was slow as fuck at his fastest to be fair. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Raw athleticism just doesn’t dominate in top quality football, although speed is always a nice advantage.  Football is a game about space — which stands out in the distance per player per game (7-8 miles on average, and 10-11 miles or more for midfielders) being far above most other sports, especially NBA and NFL, and generally only exceeded by Aussie rules football.

So the ability to read, use and create or constrict space is most valuable, both at an individual and team level.  Pace definitely helps but vision, anticipation, reading, and the skill to misdirect or evade, and the technique to execute in very limited time and space are what elevates individual players. (By contrast, NFL optimizes for explosiveness for a few seconds and rehearsed timing)

Team tactics improve over time to better control and exploit space, which is why there are fewer libreros now like Requelme — they have less space now in the era of pressing and parked buses, but there are still plenty of successful “false 9”, “9.5” and “8.5” attackers.

It doesn’t matter if Randy Moss is the tallest and fastest player and could have been a striker instead of a WR.  It matters whether he can read where he needs to be all the time and has the technique to control a pass and get off a cross or shot in a split second.  Neither pace nor height are predictive of or even correlated with that ability.  I’ve played football with plenty of sprinters and they were generally far too clumsy, both on the ball and in their positioning.

[polishgenius]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've looked at half a dozen lists and have not seen that name. 

Have any of the lists had any players before the mid-2000s, and mostly the last few years? 

In any case I had a quick look and some of the lists had a bunch of people very obviously not as fast as Adama Traore but not him, so there's something flawed about the way they're measured.

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've looked at half a dozen lists and have not seen that name. 

Idk, maybe it's because there's zero interest where you're from, but here they regularly compare the sports science of international footballers to NFL and NBA players who in theory could actually play the sport. It's why American fans like myself think they can say on the one hand Mbappe's speed and elite athleticism makes him so special for what he does and on the other he'd just be another guy here.

Jamaica has 1% of your population and produces faster athletes. Dial in the USA USA USA. 

They would be just another guy there because they aren't bred for a single play lasting 5 seconds. You have to run around a lot in a football match, being all fast twitch would be useless. 

[Rorshach]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've looked at half a dozen lists and have not seen that name. 

I know. You wouldn't.

He was fast as they come, but was never among the best, given his limited abilities in other areas. As Isk points out, football is a game of space. Getting the space, using the space, seeing the space - that's what makes a good player.

Leon Osman, on the other end of the scale, was small, weak and slow. Still held down a place in a decent Everton team for a decade, and even got capped once - because he had the footballing intelligence.

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Rorschach - 2 said:

 

Leon Osman, on the other end of the scale, was small, weak and slow. Still held down a place in a decent Everton team for a decade, and even got capped once - because he had the footballing intelligence.

Jan Molby and Micky Quinn are going to blow Ty's mind. 

[Rorshach]

Carlos Valderrama too. Oh, and Rui Costa. Though he could run, he just didn't like to.

[polishgenius]

Andy Reid, he plays left wing, he loves McDonalds and Burger King

 

also:
 

 

[Rorshach]

Was wondering when le Tiss would make his appearance.

Too bad he seems to have gone off the deep end.

[BigFatCoward]

3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Andy Reid, he plays left wing, he loves McDonalds and Burger King

 

also:
 

 

Sublime talent. Always scored worldies against Newcastle. Shame he's a bit of a fruit loop. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It doesn’t matter if Randy Moss is the tallest and fastest player and could have been a striker instead of a WR.  It matters whether he can read where he needs to be all the time and has the technique to control a pass and get off a cross or shot in a split second.  Neither pace nor height are predictive of or even correlated with that ability.  I’ve played football with plenty of sprinters and they were generally far too clumsy, both on the ball and in their positioning.

Moss was one of the five best WRs ever at readying the ball and tracking it, making circus catches all the time. I'm affording him technique and intelligence too, not just that he was probably the best athlete in the NFL for a good stretch.

7 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Have any of the lists had any players before the mid-2000s, and mostly the last few years? 

In any case I had a quick look and some of the lists had a bunch of people very obviously not as fast as Adama Traore but not him, so there's something flawed about the way they're measured.

I've looked at a handful more and honestly I'm just seeing lists with even more players. There's not much consistency.

I did see one that had Mbappe's highest end speed sprinting was faster than Bolt's fastest strides, so that's worth noting.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Rorschach - 2 said:

I know. You wouldn't.

He was fast as they come, but was never among the best, given his limited abilities in other areas. As Isk points out, football is a game of space. Getting the space, using the space, seeing the space - that's what makes a good player.

Leon Osman, on the other end of the scale, was small, weak and slow. Still held down a place in a decent Everton team for a decade, and even got capped once - because he had the footballing intelligence.

I continue to be confused why you guys think I'm arguing that we should make everyone faster, but less talented. 

[Rorshach]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I continue to be confused why you guys think I'm arguing that we should make everyone faster, but less talented. 

We're mostly bemused by your focus on athleticism, when evidence from the rather many years we've been watching shows that speed might help, but athleticism in itself really doesn't predict anything. 

Basically now you get to hear about the abundance of athletic players who aren't world class (Eliaquim Mangala, btw?) and the abundance of very unathletic players who are. 

[polishgenius]

We Are The David Bellion Appreciation Society

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

12 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Andy Reid, he plays left wing, he loves McDonalds and Burger King

 

also:
 

 

I hold your le Tiss and raise it by a Gascoigne.

[Rorshach]

Ah, for a United fan to mention Bellion!

Wasn't Obertan a speedster too?

[polishgenius]

A bit, but he could do stepovers too. He was more of a Taarabt. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Rorschach - 2 said:

We're mostly bemused by your focus on athleticism, when evidence from the rather many years we've been watching shows that speed might help, but athleticism in itself really doesn't predict anything. 

Basically now you get to hear about the abundance of athletic players who aren't world class (Eliaquim Mangala, btw?) and the abundance of very unathletic players who are. 

Of course it doesn't predict anything. I could reference a number of basketball players who were uber talented athletically, but never did anything in the NBA.

 

[The Sunland Lord]

10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I continue to be confused why you guys think I'm arguing that we should make everyone faster, but less talented. 

But you literally said that pace is rare and skills are comparable. They aren't. You can have a team of eleven Adama Traores and all you'll have is pace but average skills.

Mbappe is not only fast. Did you see the goals he scored today (for example)?

[Rorshach]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Of course it doesn't predict anything. I could reference a number of basketball players who were uber talented athletically, but never did anything in the NBA.

 

Then from where does this surety come from, that the US would dominate if only your best athletes would play foorball instead of handball?